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Ryle’s regress and the Homunculus argument
Posted: 15 February 2013 11:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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George - 15 February 2013 10:14 AM

Nothing. But throwing in terms like “neural pathways” or “flight-or-fight mechanisms” makes you sound a little like Deepak Chopra. That’s what I call “sneaky.” It’s difficult to debate people like you (or the creationists, or Chopra) who jump hither and thither between scientific terminology and theology/philosophy/spirituality/etc.

OK. That’s fine. I felt that I was in an area where I am not at home, and therefore I used the speculation-mode tags. However, I am convinced of the high-level description: both actions that are free and those that are coerced are determined. But they are determined in a different way, and I am convinced that free and coerced actions in the nearby future can be recognized with neurological means, in the same way that we can now measure what happens in the brain during different mental activities.

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Posted: 15 February 2013 11:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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GdB - 15 February 2013 11:12 AM

But they are determined in a different way

I guess it depends on what you mean by “different way.” Most emotional reactions (“coerced actions”), such as the fight-or-flight response, take place in the amygdala. Other more complex thought processes (“free actions”) involve other areas of the brain (and the rest of the body), but in the end the difference between the “coerced action” and the “free action” is more like the difference between a duet and a symphony than between noise and music. Every “free action” is based on an initial emotional reaction, where additional computing is added.

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Posted: 15 February 2013 11:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Free Will need not be a historic event——asteroids to meteors——

“free” of bias “will” the effects of Biology (philosophy and physiology) be discussed—-
Both are concerned with time—the past, future and the present—-

Is fear and survival challenged now, from understandings of evolution,
as effects of eternal infinite objects; like—-unknown for known and
interactions of philosophy, physiology and physical sciences? 


  :with help from the Oxford Dictionary of Current English

[ Edited: 16 February 2013 12:56 PM by arnoldg ]
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Posted: 16 February 2013 04:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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George - 15 February 2013 11:49 AM

I guess it depends on what you mean by “different way.”

I think I was quite explicit about it: coerced actions involve fear for consequences. My speculation is that this is neurologically measurable, which would mean that in the future it might be possible to measure the difference between free and coerced actions. Where both definitely do not differ is that both are determined.

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Posted: 22 February 2013 09:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Today when “philosophers debate”, we use the standard scientific method for—-

relevance of our thoughts words as descriptions about existence.

Free Will is pretty well contained by our thoughts, as words,

but these, words, of our thoughts have been evolving——

Could one of evolution`s effects be for thought to become free

of words and descriptions to, free our will, to be?

[ Edited: 22 February 2013 09:10 PM by arnoldg ]
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Posted: 23 February 2013 07:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Arnold, you are the Jackson Pollock of philosophy. Throw in some words and see what we get. Although, that analogy would be more accurate if you were actually trying to accomplish anything here. Maybe your posts are more like mistakenly kicking a bucket of paint. Are you okay?

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Posted: 23 February 2013 08:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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I just heard on NPR that the United States Constitution had divided humans into fractions in the 1850s;

Can we look at life differently——what is Being and Evolution for, today?

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Posted: 23 February 2013 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Can we look at life differently in what way? Does your question make sense to you?

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Posted: 23 February 2013 10:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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I am not a philosopher, but, I have been trying to use this forum “to objectify our current means of existence”;

In this way all science can be better understood as a value for our means of existence;

What is life without values?

I propose we need a minimum of three different pots of paint—-one plus one equals a result,

and so it is with Faith and Reason equaling Being;

Reason is only one pot for a means (philosophy) to existence—-

[ Edited: 23 February 2013 10:50 AM by arnoldg ]
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Posted: 23 February 2013 10:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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arnoldg - 23 February 2013 10:06 AM

I am not a philosopher, but, I have been trying to use this forum “to objectify our current means of existence”;

In this way all science can be better understood as a value for our means of existence;

What is life without values?

I propose use need minimum of three different pots of paint—-one plus one equals a result,

and so it is with Faith and Reason equal Being—-

Well, that’s clear, don’t you think, George?  hmmm

Especially in relation with the original question of Morgantj about Ryle’s homunculus and the problem of free will. I could not have said it clearer than arnoldg does.  blank stare

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Posted: 23 February 2013 11:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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No, of course it’s not clear at all.

Arnold, what I am trying to say is that your posts make zero sense. Ask simple questions and use simple words. Why, for example, do you capitalize the word “Being”? What is the meaning of this? (Not that setting it in lower case would make any more sense.)

Try again. Reword your question and make it as simple as possible. Stay away from trying to sound (what you think is) philosophical or deep, and forget about metaphors or sounding poetic. That is, if you want to engage other people here in a conversation with you.

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Posted: 23 February 2013 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Free Will today is seeing when it is time to move on;  I have begun to edit my posts to be of neutral interest;

Is interaction of philosophy and theosophy possible today?

Two months ago I proposed if Observation could become an Object (concept) for science (concepts like Matter, Space and Time);

Then the interactions of philosophy and theosophy would provide the values needed for science today.

Ontology today, is study from an individual (my Being) point of view—-for the preservation of the individual as a value of life.

What is your understanding of Being——Wikipedia: Being, Stoicism, Epistemology-may help,

Then begin your search to practice with others, trust no one but your Being

[ Edited: 01 March 2013 03:45 PM by arnoldg ]
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Posted: 23 February 2013 06:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Oh, well.

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Posted: 04 March 2013 05:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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This seems apropos, here, too—-

The movie Zardoz refers to a disconnected head—-

as a concept with out means for free willers and nonfree willers alike.

The mind says there is free will, the body has to find it—-

[ Edited: 05 March 2013 10:05 AM by arnoldg ]
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Posted: 04 March 2013 09:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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arnoldg - 23 February 2013 08:41 AM

I just heard on NPR that the United States Constitution had divided humans into fractions in the 1850s;

The rest of us learned that in grade school. Perhaps you weren’t paying attention.

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