I never heard of the Titanic switch conspiracy, what gives
Posted: 16 February 2013 12:55 AM   [ Ignore ]
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My gal’s off on a business trip so late evenings alone, what can I say I’m sort of a documentary junkie, there’s a bunch of good stuff out there, well, yea, a lot of not so good, but much of that I even like, everyone’s got their own perspective, and of course too much that’s plain bad. 
In any event, for relaxation and to get away from the AGW,  I go trawling at the second greatest invention on the internet:  YouTube.

And with random documentaries you never know what you will get. 


Well, let me tell you, did I ever bump into an eye opener this evening.

I had never before heard the revelation of how the S/S Titanic that went down was actually the S/S Olympic.
Apparently, they were diabolically switched at the ship yard.
Yea, go figure.

Why were they switched?  Interesting that, it was an insurance scheme by White Star Lines.

If you’re like me, I’m sure you’re thinking, this is insane… thinking of a few big ‘contra-indicators’ right off the top.
But, no, they explain it.  Man the shows nearly an hour long - mind you most these conspiracy dramas I can’t stomach and switch off.
There was something way too fascinating about the web of evidence and logic these folks were weaving… and perhaps the shear shocking novelty of this never suspected hoax.

It’s the sort of program I wish I could listen to a learned* professor deconstruct.

Conspiracies- Titanic:The Ship That Never Sank
Uploaded on Jul 30, 2011
One of the most controversial and complex theories was put forward by Robin Gardiner in his book, Titanic: The Ship That Never Sank? In it, Gardiner draws on several events and coincidences that occurred in the months, days, and hours leading up to the sinking of the Titanic, and concludes that the ship that sank was in fact Titanic’s sister ship Olympic, disguised as Titanic, as an insurance scam.

PS - when I use the term “Learned” it’s a term of appreciation for what it means to seriously study and achieve.

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Posted: 16 February 2013 05:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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CC, I’ve not read the book but he would have to show a veritable mountain of evidence to prove his claim. First of all, what insurance scam? Were they expecting the ship to sink? Then there’s the problem of bribing Captain Smith to keep the secret and Andrews the designer would have to be in on it not to mention the thousands of shipyard workers who built both ships, HMS registry office who periodically sent officials to view the construction, and all of the blueprinters who knew what ship they were working on by the carefully labeled and numbered plan sheets. Then there’s the question of why? Both ships were mirror images of each other, at least in construction so what would be the point? As Olympic was the only one of the trio to survive into the 1930’s, before she was broken up all of her furnishings were sold at auction and can be examined for their authenticity today. So, did they mislabel everything on the ship from lifeboats to chairs? Everyone in Britain knew and saw both ships and there’s even a picture of them docked together. This sounds like a “Chariots of the Gods” type book! Maybe it’ll show up on the History channel along with Nazi aliens.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 16 February 2013 09:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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This particular bit of nonsense is not old, but a contrived out of nothing conspiracy theory which was invented by Robin Gardiner just before the wreckage of the ship was discovered. As a moderator on two different Titanic forums, I’ve run into this many times.

I won’t bore you with every single detail but the fatal flaw in the whole thing is the insurance scam part and there are two reasons for this.

One being that the ship was underinsured with a third of the value being covered by White Star’s own in-house insurance fund. In order for the whole scam story to add up, this situtation simply could not exist. White Star was not run by angels, but these guys weren’t stupid either. They would not concoct a scam where they would end up rooking themselves out of $2.5million dollars in a time when this was REAL money.

The second being that while the Olympic and Titanic had identical hulls and machinary, their internal arrangements were signifigantly different. You couldn’t just tie up and switch thr nameplates. For one thing, there were no namplates. The names were literally etched into the hulls. In order to pull off a switch, the two ships would have to put in to a shipyard for major alterations which would have to be accomplished in front of thousands of shipfitters.

Anybody here ever been in a shipyard?

I have, and for two major aircraft carrier overhauls.

Think secrets keep in these places?

Trust me: They don’t.

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Posted: 16 February 2013 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Oh yea, I believe you.

And none of the above mentions the little matter of coordinating the timing with the iceberg.  Or the “planned rescue ship” the Californian sleeping through the night of horror within sight of signal flares.

When I said I’d love hearing a professor deconstruct this show, I wasn’t thinking of deconstructing the evidence, which could be done pretty well right in my living room using a little logic.  I was thinking along the lines of deconstructing the rhetoric and art of the spin.

Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 16 February 2013 09:10 AM

As a moderator on two different Titanic forums, I’ve run into this many times.

Two forums?  Wow, the fascination with the ship, er tragedy, never ends does it.

What are the forums ~ I’ll have to take a peek sometime.

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Posted: 16 February 2013 11:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Two forums?  Wow, the fascination with the ship, er tragedy, never ends does it.


It’s always Been a puzzle to me just why people are still interested in the tragedy even after the publication of several books and everybody and his brother Harry diving on the crumbling remnants of the ship. Maybe it’s the hundreds of personal stories and the time period (end of the Victorian/Edwardian era but the mystique still survives. Are the forums on line EOC?


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 16 February 2013 01:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 16 February 2013 12:55 AM

My gal’s off on a business trip so late evenings alone, what can I say I’m sort of a documentary junkie, there’s a bunch of good stuff out there, well, yea, a lot of not so good, but much of that I even like, everyone’s got their own perspective, and of course too much that’s plain bad. 
In any event, for relaxation and to get away from the AGW,  I go trawling at the second greatest invention on the internet:  YouTube.

And with random documentaries you never know what you will get. 


Well, let me tell you, did I ever bump into an eye opener this evening.

I had never before heard the revelation of how the S/S Titanic that went down was actually the S/S Olympic.
Apparently, they were diabolically switched at the ship yard.
Yea, go figure.

Why were they switched?  Interesting that, it was an insurance scheme by White Star Lines.

If you’re like me, I’m sure you’re thinking, this is insane… thinking of a few big ‘contra-indicators’ right off the top.
But, no, they explain it.  Man the shows nearly an hour long - mind you most these conspiracy dramas I can’t stomach and switch off.
There was something way too fascinating about the web of evidence and logic these folks were weaving… and perhaps the shear shocking novelty of this never suspected hoax.

It’s the sort of program I wish I could listen to a learned* professor deconstruct.

Conspiracies- Titanic:The Ship That Never Sank
Uploaded on Jul 30, 2011
One of the most controversial and complex theories was put forward by Robin Gardiner in his book, Titanic: The Ship That Never Sank? In it, Gardiner draws on several events and coincidences that occurred in the months, days, and hours leading up to the sinking of the Titanic, and concludes that the ship that sank was in fact Titanic’s sister ship Olympic, disguised as Titanic, as an insurance scam.

PS - when I use the term “Learned” it’s a term of appreciation for what it means to seriously study and achieve.

Try this for a refutation. 


Bruce Beveridge and Steve Hall (2004). Olympic & Titanic: The Truth Behind the Conspiracy. Infinity Publishing. ISBN 978-0-7414-1949-1.

The publishing year itself shows the conspiracy theory is not new.  I’d apply Ockham’s razor.

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Posted: 16 February 2013 01:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Lois - 16 February 2013 01:12 PM

Try this for a refutation. 


Bruce Beveridge and Steve Hall (2004). Olympic & Titanic: The Truth Behind the Conspiracy. Infinity Publishing. ISBN 978-0-7414-1949-1.

The publishing year itself shows the conspiracy theory is not new.  I’d apply Ockham’s razor.

Got a YouTube video to link to.  smirk

I sure don’t have enough time or interest to read, let alone buy a book on the topic.  I loved all that stuff back in Junior High, and the hauntings too, fun poop, but with a few years it lost all of it’s novelty and mystery… too easy to explain - plus learning about the real world beckoned and man that’s a full-time life-long job, but so much more fun than all out fantasizing.


cheers,
wink


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
oh sorry… “refutation” of what?  the hoax or the denial of the hoax?

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Posted: 16 February 2013 10:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Bruce Beveridge and Steve Hall (2004). Olympic & Titanic: The Truth Behind the Conspiracy. Infinity Publishing. ISBN 978-0-7414-1949-1.

An outstanding catch there. These two men are probably the most knowladgeable people on the face of the Earth when it comes to the technical details of the Olympic Class liners.

What are the forums ~ I’ll have to take a peek sometime.

The two forums where I moderate are Encyclopedia Titanica at http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/forums/forum.php and Andrew Clarkson’s Titanic-Titanic at http://www.titanic-titanic.com/forum/index.php

Two others you may take an interest in are the THS forum at http://www.titanichistoricalsociety.net/forum/ and The Titanic Research and Modeling Association at http://titanic-model.com/

These four are considered to be the most reputable with TRMA as the place where all those known as “techies” in the Titanic Community hang out.

My own interest is a teritary to an interest in shipwreck forensics as well as liner history.

Oh….an absolutely essential source for any serious historian who takes an interest in Titanic are the Inquiry trnascripts themselves which may be accessed at http://www.titanicinquiry.org/

I know some of the people who worked on this site and they are among the top historians who deal with this admittedly niche field.

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Posted: 16 February 2013 11:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 16 February 2013 01:32 PM
Lois - 16 February 2013 01:12 PM

Try this for a refutation. 


Bruce Beveridge and Steve Hall (2004). Olympic & Titanic: The Truth Behind the Conspiracy. Infinity Publishing. ISBN 978-0-7414-1949-1.

The publishing year itself shows the conspiracy theory is not new.  I’d apply Ockham’s razor.

Got a YouTube video to link to.  smirk

I sure don’t have enough time or interest to read, let alone buy a book on the topic.  I loved all that stuff back in Junior High, and the hauntings too, fun poop, but with a few years it lost all of it’s novelty and mystery… too easy to explain - plus learning about the real world beckoned and man that’s a full-time life-long job, but so much more fun than all out fantasizing.


cheers,
wink


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
oh sorry… “refutation” of what?  the hoax or the denial of the hoax?

Come on, you’re smarter than that.

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Posted: 17 February 2013 02:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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maybe you give me too much credit   downer

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