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Do you see Islam as a threat?
Posted: 08 March 2013 09:53 PM   [ Ignore ]
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If you consider that all countries that are run by Islamic’s are basically third world countries that have a complete void of any civil rights, and treat women as though they were property. I’d say there’s a lot of good reason to worry about these nut cakes, but I wanted to get others opinions on this issue.

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Posted: 09 March 2013 01:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Depends on the type of threat.

If an extremist Islamic government had nuclear weapons, or even high conventional weapons capability, I would consider them a potential threat to any non - Islamic extremists.

If I was a tourist in a fundamentalist Muslim country, I would consider almost everyone there to be a threat to myself.

I guess that Islamic fundamentalism could be seen as a threat to liberal values worldwide, but that doesn’t necessarily imply a threat to places that already have liberal values.

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Posted: 09 March 2013 03:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I see them as a threat that enter into any society. It’s unfortunate, but even though they love to exercise their freedoms in countries that allow it, in their own countries anything but believing in the Islamic religion is a crime. I’m not willing to believe that these people remove these bias’s when they start moving into places like the UK or the US. They’re insanely controlling and try to force their religious beliefs even in countries that aren’t even theirs. The UK is already running into problems with Islamic trying to control the streets under Sharia Law.

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Posted: 09 March 2013 05:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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ExMachina - 09 March 2013 03:50 AM

I see them as a threat that enter into any society. It’s unfortunate, but even though they love to exercise their freedoms in countries that allow it, in their own countries anything but believing in the Islamic religion is a crime. I’m not willing to believe that these people remove these bias’s when they start moving into places like the UK or the US. They’re insanely controlling and try to force their religious beliefs even in countries that aren’t even theirs. The UK is already running into problems with Islamic trying to control the streets under Sharia Law.

True, the extremists don’t see western democracies as anything but places to establish new little caliphates.

The big threat is not the Muslims as much as the ultra P.C. governments of some western countries, who are willing to “bend over” to accomodate fundamentalist Muslim demands. You’re correct in pointing out the UK, though, that place sounds like it is turning into a fascist state.

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Posted: 09 March 2013 06:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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mid atlantic - 09 March 2013 05:12 AM
ExMachina - 09 March 2013 03:50 AM

I see them as a threat that enter into any society. It’s unfortunate, but even though they love to exercise their freedoms in countries that allow it, in their own countries anything but believing in the Islamic religion is a crime. I’m not willing to believe that these people remove these bias’s when they start moving into places like the UK or the US. They’re insanely controlling and try to force their religious beliefs even in countries that aren’t even theirs. The UK is already running into problems with Islamic trying to control the streets under Sharia Law.

True, the extremists don’t see western democracies as anything but places to establish new little caliphates.

The big threat is not the Muslims as much as the ultra P.C. governments of some western countries, who are willing to “bend over” to accommodate fundamentalist Muslim demands. You’re correct in pointing out the UK, though, that place sounds like it is turning into a fascist state.

That’s a good point, but it seems as countries are more willing to accept other cultures, that it leaves them vulnerable to being manipulated such as we’re seeing being done. I’ve seen claims where people have said that fundamental Muslims only make up 1% of the population. Personally I think this is a lie trying to make it sound like there aren’t as many crazies as there seem to be, but even by those numbers, 1% of 1.6 billion still makes 16 million people who will slit your throat for their God. The reason I say it’s a lie is because fundamentalist Muslim countries such as Iraq (33 million), Iran (77 million), Pakistan (182 million), and Saudi Arabia (29 million) alone I’m sure must in total have more than 16 million insane Muslims within it.

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Posted: 09 March 2013 09:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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ExMachina - 09 March 2013 06:09 AM
mid atlantic - 09 March 2013 05:12 AM
ExMachina - 09 March 2013 03:50 AM

I see them as a threat that enter into any society. It’s unfortunate, but even though they love to exercise their freedoms in countries that allow it, in their own countries anything but believing in the Islamic religion is a crime. I’m not willing to believe that these people remove these bias’s when they start moving into places like the UK or the US. They’re insanely controlling and try to force their religious beliefs even in countries that aren’t even theirs. The UK is already running into problems with Islamic trying to control the streets under Sharia Law.

True, the extremists don’t see western democracies as anything but places to establish new little caliphates.

The big threat is not the Muslims as much as the ultra P.C. governments of some western countries, who are willing to “bend over” to accommodate fundamentalist Muslim demands. You’re correct in pointing out the UK, though, that place sounds like it is turning into a fascist state.

That’s a good point, but it seems as countries are more willing to accept other cultures, that it leaves them vulnerable to being manipulated such as we’re seeing being done. I’ve seen claims where people have said that fundamental Muslims only make up 1% of the population. Personally I think this is a lie trying to make it sound like there aren’t as many crazies as there seem to be, but even by those numbers, 1% of 1.6 billion still makes 16 million people who will slit your throat for their God. The reason I say it’s a lie is because fundamentalist Muslim countries such as Iraq (33 million), Iran (77 million), Pakistan (182 million), and Saudi Arabia (29 million) alone I’m sure must in total have more than 16 million insane Muslims within it.


Excellent point.  The 1% seems so benign until you actually work out what it means in numbers. I would never trust an Islamic government or an Islamic fundamentalist, and maybe not a few who are not fundamentalist but just religion crazed. We never know what they might get up to—and we know what they’ve already done, not only politically but to their own families.  However, I have no viable suggestions about how to handle 16 million insane Muslims nor insane Islamic governments. Does anyone on this group have an idea?

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Posted: 09 March 2013 09:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I see anything based on supersition and magical thinking as a threat. Sometimes it’s the so-called thinking behind a lot of right or left wing political/economic ideologies, but with those, you can at least point to something which a reasonable person might take for tangible evidence to back it up.

With deistically centered religions, you have no such assurance when dealing with it’s core assertion, which is the existance of a god or gods, but they claim His/Her authority and kill you for it if you don’t toe their line.

Islam is a high profile example of that, but hardly the only one.

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Posted: 09 March 2013 03:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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I agree about the danger of Islam.  It’s sort of in the same place as Christianity was during the Dark Ages.  While I’m still nauseated by the craziness of many vocal Christians in the U.S. at present, they have become much more moderate here and in Europe.  I attribute that to both increased general education and even more to how widespread communication technology and news media have become:  First radio, then movies, television, the Internet and now cell phones. 

A good example is how rapidly the general public in the U.S. has gone from detesting alternative sexual life styles to accepting them.  I believe most of that shift came about by the many acceptable and likeable gay characters in TV programs, movies, and music. 

While the Islamic countries try very hard to block their people from contact with the outside world, they are being less and less successful.  As such, I think, as much as they try and as dangerous as the remaining ones will be, over the next few decades fundamentalist Islam will weaken. 

My main worry is the possibility that catastrophic global climate change will severely inhibit our present widespread worldwide communication.  If that happens, we may sink back to a new Dark Age.  Then all bets are off.

Occam

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Posted: 10 March 2013 04:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Lois - 09 March 2013 09:40 AM
ExMachina - 09 March 2013 06:09 AM
mid atlantic - 09 March 2013 05:12 AM
ExMachina - 09 March 2013 03:50 AM

I see them as a threat that enter into any society. It’s unfortunate, but even though they love to exercise their freedoms in countries that allow it, in their own countries anything but believing in the Islamic religion is a crime. I’m not willing to believe that these people remove these bias’s when they start moving into places like the UK or the US. They’re insanely controlling and try to force their religious beliefs even in countries that aren’t even theirs. The UK is already running into problems with Islamic trying to control the streets under Sharia Law.

True, the extremists don’t see western democracies as anything but places to establish new little caliphates.

The big threat is not the Muslims as much as the ultra P.C. governments of some western countries, who are willing to “bend over” to accommodate fundamentalist Muslim demands. You’re correct in pointing out the UK, though, that place sounds like it is turning into a fascist state.

That’s a good point, but it seems as countries are more willing to accept other cultures, that it leaves them vulnerable to being manipulated such as we’re seeing being done. I’ve seen claims where people have said that fundamental Muslims only make up 1% of the population. Personally I think this is a lie trying to make it sound like there aren’t as many crazies as there seem to be, but even by those numbers, 1% of 1.6 billion still makes 16 million people who will slit your throat for their God. The reason I say it’s a lie is because fundamentalist Muslim countries such as Iraq (33 million), Iran (77 million), Pakistan (182 million), and Saudi Arabia (29 million) alone I’m sure must in total have more than 16 million insane Muslims within it.


Excellent point.  The 1% seems so benign until you actually work out what it means in numbers. I would never trust an Islamic government or an Islamic fundamentalist, and maybe not a few who are not fundamentalist but just religion crazed. We never know what they might get up to—and we know what they’ve already done, not only politically but to their own families.  However, I have no viable suggestions about how to handle 16 million insane Muslims nor insane Islamic governments. Does anyone on this group have an idea?

If they are minding their own business, we can’t do anything to 16 million Muslims who are just being “crazy Muslims”. Keeping an eye on them will be necessary for the foreseeable future, but outside of that, nothing….....events like 9-11, London subway bombing, Madrid bombing, are statistically very rare, so it’s not wise to go to war over these things.

Islamic terrorism is never really going to go away, so we have to learn to live with it.

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Posted: 10 March 2013 08:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Islamic terrorism is never really going to go away, so we have to learn to live with it.

And I tend to take a little bit of issue with the “Live with it” part. Nobody should have to live with terrorism of any kind any more then they should have to live with any other sort of criminal act.

Deal with it, yes, but not live with it.

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Posted: 11 March 2013 10:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Sure it’s a threat, just like Christianity. Just because 911/Bush Admin trained us to fear Muslims doesn’t mean you shouldn’t fear Christians just the same. Abortion clinic bombings, Oklahoma bombing, thousands of back alley abortions that killed mother and child alike due to Christian beliefs foisted on poor young girls, etc. Eye for an Eye justice by execution…Christian. You’ve just been trained to accept Christian terrorism as “not terrorism”. I’d venture to guess extreme Islam has a long long way to go to even approach the same amount of terrorism Christianity has been responsible for in it’s 2000 year history.

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Posted: 11 March 2013 12:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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ExMachina - 08 March 2013 09:53 PM

If you consider that all countries that are run by Islamic’s are basically third world countries that have a complete void of any civil rights, and treat women as though they were property. I’d say there’s a lot of good reason to worry about these nut cakes, but I wanted to get others opinions on this issue.

They don’t just TREAT women AS THOUGH they are property under Islam.  Women ARE the property of men under Islam and they have no rights that are not able to be disregarded by men.

I really wish a Muslim would join this group and try to defend Islamic law. Where do we find one who would join the discussion?

LL.

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Posted: 11 March 2013 03:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Clausewitz observed that war is politics by others means;  religion often is to.

Fixed spelling

[ Edited: 12 March 2013 02:04 PM by garythehuman ]
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Posted: 11 March 2013 04:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I really wish a Muslim would join this group and try to defend Islamic law. Where do we find one who would join the discussion?

Go to I.J. Abdul Hakeem on the 911 site. He explains it all. I’m surprised he hasn’t jumped into this one, or I could be entirely wrong. He emphasizes his talking points in red and has answers for any inquiries on Muslim women and their place according to the Koran.

 

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 11 March 2013 05:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 11 March 2013 04:28 PM

I really wish a Muslim would join this group and try to defend Islamic law. Where do we find one who would join the discussion?

Go to I.J. Abdul Hakeem on the 911 site. He explains it all. I’m surprised he hasn’t jumped into this one, or I could be entirely wrong. He emphasizes his talking points in red and has answers for any inquiries on Muslim women and their place according to the Koran.

 

Cap’t Jack

Thanks.  I had overlooked that.  I have sent a response to that thread, not that it will have any positive effect but it helps me a little with my frustration.

Lois

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Posted: 11 March 2013 05:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Lois - 11 March 2013 05:49 PM
Thevillageatheist - 11 March 2013 04:28 PM

I really wish a Muslim would join this group and try to defend Islamic law. Where do we find one who would join the discussion?

Go to I.J. Abdul Hakeem on the 911 site. He explains it all. I’m surprised he hasn’t jumped into this one, or I could be entirely wrong. He emphasizes his talking points in red and has answers for any inquiries on Muslim women and their place according to the Koran.

 

Cap’t Jack

Thanks.  I had overlooked that.  I have sent a response to that thread, not that it will have any positive effect but it helps me a little with my frustration.

Lois

Don’t be surprised if he ignores your responses. He tends to ignore mine…perhaps because I am a woman? hmmm

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