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Ever heard of Epigenetics? This may be cause of homosexuality
Posted: 07 April 2013 10:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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George, no one has said that viruses couldnt some how play a role in this. All we have said is that there is currently no evidence to support that hypothesis. The Blog you refer to provides no additional evidence, only the opinion of some anonymous individual.

A hypothesis without evidence is just that, a hypothesis. It is not the obligation of the scientific community to disprove every hypothesis someone comes up with. If someone feels strongly enough about a hypothesis then they will do the research to either prove or disprove it, but to strongly defend a hypothesis before such evidence is available suggests an alternative agenda.

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Posted: 07 April 2013 11:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Sorry, he is not an anonymous individual. Greg Cochran is a professor of genetic anthropology form the Universrity of Utah, and his pathogen theory has been reviwed by Bill Hamilton who found it reasonable. So it’s your word against that of Hamilton.

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Posted: 07 April 2013 11:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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BTW, are you going to tell Asanta that there is no evidence to show that epigenetics are responsible for MS? Maybe you could add a Star Trek quote or something.

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Posted: 07 April 2013 11:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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George - 07 April 2013 11:21 AM

BTW, are you going to tell Asanta that there is no evidence to show that epigenetics are responsible for MS? Maybe you could add a Star Trek quote or something.

I corrected that and used a better example.

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Posted: 07 April 2013 12:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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George - 07 April 2013 11:13 AM

Sorry, he is not an anonymous individual. Greg Cochran is a professor of genetic anthropology form the Universrity of Utah, and his pathogen theory has been reviwed by Bill Hamilton who found it reasonable. So it’s your word against that of Hamilton.

Its not my word against Hamilton’s. It simply Hamilton’s opinion with no supporting evidence which is the point I am trying to make. Opinion does not add support to a hypothesis no matter who’s opinion it is, only empirical evidence does.

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Posted: 07 April 2013 04:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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George - 07 April 2013 09:23 AM

Of course, but that’s the problem here. People either don’t see of don’t want to see that it is still the genes that code for the epi-marks. Such genes would be selected against very quickly.

For more see here:
http://westhunt.wordpress.com/2013/01/12/homosexuality-epigenetics-and-zebras/

But I am sure I am simply wasting my time here. Everyone of you here has already decided that it can’t be want it seems to be—yes, a virus—and I will try my best to avoid posting any further comments regarding this topic anywhere of these forums.

Even if it were a virus, does the person infected have any control over the fact that s/he is gay?

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Posted: 07 April 2013 04:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Lois - 07 April 2013 04:13 PM

Even if it were a virus, does the person infected have any control over the fact that s/he is gay?

No, and even that doesn’t matter. If a person WANTED to be gay, so what. As long as the partner is of the ability/age to consent, I really don’t care if it is by choice or they were born that way. Either way, I would support their choice. (Lois, this isn’t directed toward you.  smile )

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Posted: 07 April 2013 06:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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George - 07 April 2013 11:13 AM

Sorry, he is not an anonymous individual. Greg Cochran is a professor of genetic anthropology form the Universrity of Utah, and his pathogen theory has been reviwed by Bill Hamilton who found it reasonable. So it’s your word against that of Hamilton.

The original article is based on collaborations of several universities as well. Also, having research reported by the National Institute for Mathematical and Biological Synthesis doesn’t seem like an easy feat.

[ Edited: 07 April 2013 07:07 PM by FinallyDecided ]
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Posted: 07 April 2013 08:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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asanta - 07 April 2013 04:23 PM
Lois - 07 April 2013 04:13 PM

Even if it were a virus, does the person infected have any control over the fact that s/he is gay?

No, and even that doesn’t matter. If a person WANTED to be gay, so what. As long as the partner is of the ability/age to consent, I really don’t care if it is by choice or they were born that way. Either way, I would support their choice. (Lois, this isn’t directed toward you.  smile )

I doubt it’s a choice for anyone.  The way i see it, people have an natural orientation that they have no control over.  I can’t imagine anyone choosing to be gay if s/he was heterosexual—and vice versa.  It’s not an easy life to be gay. And I doubt it’s actually possible to choose. It’s possible to experiment, but a person can’t change his or her orientation, IMO.

Throughout history many gay people have forced themselves to pretend to be heterosexual. That is not being heterosexual.  This can lead to disaster for themselves and most especially for a spouse.

....

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Posted: 07 April 2013 09:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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There’s a stand up comic who has a routine about people “choosing” to be straight.  He points out that women make us men do all kinds of things that we men don’t like to do, shave, bathe, wear fancy clothes, respond to our asking of “What’s wrong?” with “Nothing!” and so on, while guys are basically willing to nail anything that’ll hold still long enough, and that, logically, it’d make more sense for us to be gay, than straight.

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Posted: 07 April 2013 10:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Coldheart Tucker - 07 April 2013 09:01 PM

There’s a stand up comic who has a routine about people “choosing” to be straight.  He points out that women make us men do all kinds of things that we men don’t like to do, shave, bathe, wear fancy clothes, respond to our asking of “What’s wrong?” with “Nothing!” and so on, while guys are basically willing to nail anything that’ll hold still long enough, and that, logically, it’d make more sense for us to be gay, than straight.

But you don’t have the choice!

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Posted: 07 April 2013 11:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Isn’t there something funny in asking for the causes of being gay? I think asking for the causes of being straight is just as interesting. As a byproduct one might get the answer why about 5% of all humans through all cultures are gay. The idea that we should look just for the causes of being gay suggests that then we can do something about it. And that suggests that we think being gay is not ok.

The common argument ‘when all people were gay, we would be extinct in one generation’ is not a causal argument. The kind of reasoning here is similar to the anthropic principle . Because we exist, and proliferate sexually, it follows that there must be a minimum percentage of straight people. But that is not a causal explanation at all.

So again, looking for the causes of being gay alone is somehow funny.

And about epigenetics: I found two different (overlapping) definitions of it:
- study of the mechanism that determines which genes will be expressed in a cell
- study of how such mechanisms can contribute to inheritance over at least one generation

Genes contain the blueprint for enzymes and other proteins. Which genes are activated is determined by chemical processes in the cell, which in turn are determined by external influences and by the proteins it contains already, which in turn… To look for a mono causal explanation as if the genes determine it all is naive. The only thing we really know is that changes in phenotype are not transcribed into the genotype: here the causality is definitely in one direction.

Epigenetics might show however that there is a second (but weaker) mechanism for inheritance. I have no idea what that has to do with nurture. We’re still talking inheritance.

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Posted: 08 April 2013 03:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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FinallyDecided - 07 April 2013 05:37 AM

However, I’ve known people from all sorts of backgrounds who have turned out gay. Also, there are gay people in all cultures—I think that speaks volumes.

Yeah, this is a big strike against the “nurture” idea of sexual orientation.

Also, the fact that other primates, other mammals, other non-mammalian organisms, have been observed engaging in same sex behavior. Anybody who considers themselves to be a rationalist, cannot deny that same sex attraction is part of the biosphere.

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Posted: 08 April 2013 06:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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GdB - 07 April 2013 11:55 PM

Epigenetics might show however that there is a second (but weaker) mechanism for inheritance. I have no idea what that has to do with nurture. We’re still talking inheritance.

Epigenetics has everything to do with nurture in that environmental influences are the trigger for epigenetic changes.  In one well known study Agouti mice which are fed different diets can develop epigenetic changes leading to dramatic alterations in phenotype which are then transferred to the offspring. (http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/obesity-epigenetics-and-gene-regulation-927). Other environmental factors including emotional stress have been implicated as the cause for some epigenetic changes.
Obviously human studies of this sort are not as easily done but it is a hot topic of research at the moment as a quick google scholar search will show (http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=human+epigenetics&btnG;=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,33&as_ylo=2013).

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Posted: 08 April 2013 06:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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There are at least two types of epigenetics. One would be based on and programmed by the DNA, like the methylation, but these are usually reset in the offspring. The second would be changes introduced by the environment. These cannot be passed onto the next generations, as there is no evidence that Lamarckism (i.e., inheritance of acquired characteristics) works.

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