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Unfair legal system?
Posted: 09 May 2013 04:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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StephenLawrence - 09 May 2013 12:06 AM
George - 08 May 2013 04:35 PM

Of course it is well documented fact that blacks commit more crime than whites.

Aren’t the issues whether more blacks are wrongly convicted than whites and whether the sentences for like crimes are unfairly different?

Stephen

They could be, but I doubt it. If the crime rate of Jamaica was lower or the same as that of Uruguay, I would be suspecious of racism playing a major role in the US legal system.

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Posted: 09 May 2013 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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George - 09 May 2013 04:26 AM
StephenLawrence - 09 May 2013 12:06 AM
George - 08 May 2013 04:35 PM

Of course it is well documented fact that blacks commit more crime than whites.

Aren’t the issues whether more blacks are wrongly convicted than whites and whether the sentences for like crimes are unfairly different?

Stephen

They could be, but I doubt it. If the crime rate of Jamaica was lower or the same as that of Uruguay, I would be suspecious of racism playing a major role in the US legal system.

It has less to do with the raw numbers of people arrested and/or convicted of crimes, but the percentage of the overall population that the number of arrested and/or convicted people represent. There are many other factors that must be considered besides the raw numbers. Poverty, the social system—is there a breakdown in society? Is the social and justice system in chaos? How corrupt is the system? Who gets a pass?  Are the police brutal and/or incompetent? Does the justice system make more of some people’s testimony than that of others? Is there adequate counsel? How much does money play a part?

All of those things and more go into how the statistics come out. If you ignore any of them you get a flawed picture.

In order to compare statistics correctly you have to be sure all the factors are equal or properly weighted for each of the participants. That is not the case with most statistics about who commits crimes, and if the person reading the statistics doesn’t understand this and isn’t able to read between the lines, the statistics cannot support any kind of analysis or conclusion.


Lois

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Posted: 09 May 2013 09:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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The blacks commit crime because they are poor and the black football players commit crime because they are rich. You can twist it anyway you want. I’ll stick to the “raw numbers.”

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Posted: 09 May 2013 10:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Fascinating to use logic.  Let’s see:  The caucasians commit crime because they aren’t poor, the caucasian athletes and movie stars commit crimes because they are rich, the financial managers commit crimes because they are powerful, the politicians commit crimes because they are bribed, the males commit sex crimes because they are overloaded with testosterone.  But, I guess we can stick with the raw numbers.  LOL

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Posted: 09 May 2013 10:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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So the distinction has been made between Committing a crime and being Convicted.  The BJS report as far as I can tell doesn’t mention that “Offending” is from Conviction rates. I’d think if it were why not just use the word “convicted”.  I’d also like to see stats on ethnicity of police forces and judges. If a black judge finds a black guy guilty, is he being racist? What about if the black judge was “fair skinned black” and the criminal “dark black black”?  That kind of prejudice does exist in A-A populations. That can’t be missed.

I guess one of the reasons I started this thread is because I hate discrimination of ANY KIND. And what I often (not always but often) see is a sort of double standard. Somehow it’s “the white criminals have it coming to them”, but “the black guys are just victims of racism”.  If we’re against racism, then we have to be against ALL of it, including so-called reverse-discrimination.

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Posted: 09 May 2013 11:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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George - 09 May 2013 04:26 AM
StephenLawrence - 09 May 2013 12:06 AM
George - 08 May 2013 04:35 PM

Of course it is well documented fact that blacks commit more crime than whites.

Aren’t the issues whether more blacks are wrongly convicted than whites and whether the sentences for like crimes are unfairly different?

Stephen

They could be, but I doubt it. If the crime rate of Jamaica was lower or the same as that of Uruguay, I would be suspicious of racism playing a major role in the US legal system.

I don’t know why you doubt it.

I don’t doubt it, there is a history of the most awful racism and it’s got a lot better but I don’t see why you think it’s been completely eliminated. edit: oops that was highly inaccurate, you don’t think racism has been completely eliminated. I mean I doubt that racism is playing as small a role as you think.

Stephen

[ Edited: 09 May 2013 11:30 AM by StephenLawrence ]
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Posted: 09 May 2013 11:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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George - 09 May 2013 09:45 AM

The blacks commit crime because they are poor and the black football players commit crime because they are rich. You can twist it anyway you want. I’ll stick to the “raw numbers.”

This is exactly what I would expect from a Czeck immigrant who lives in Canada.
Raw ignorance. Race bating!
Did you cull your data from more of those dime store Parlour novels about science and genetics you read George?

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Posted: 09 May 2013 11:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Are the moderators too blind to see obvious racism coming from George and Cussbert?
Hello?

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Posted: 09 May 2013 11:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Maybe you should send me to a deserted island and buy me a tractor.

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Posted: 09 May 2013 12:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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George - 09 May 2013 11:58 AM

Maybe you should send me to a deserted island and buy me a tractor.

That’s it?  A sardonic phrase? I guess that means you think my posts were silly or naive…they probably were.
I suppose I should try projecting a more cold, pseudo-science based approach that is pragmatic, and controversial. 
I’m in need of more attention lately…....

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Posted: 09 May 2013 05:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Maybe you should send me to a deserted island and buy me a tractor.

Ok, I’ll bite, what would you do on a deserted island with a tractor? Farm coconuts?

 

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Posted: 09 May 2013 09:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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mid atlantic - 08 May 2013 10:40 PM
Lois - 08 May 2013 07:56 PM

And the bjs article says, “Blacks were disproportionately represented as both homicide victims and offenders. The victimization rate for blacks (27.8
per 100,000) was 6 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000). The offending rate for blacks (34.4 per 100,000) was almost 8 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000).”

Of course, they get their “offending rate” from the conviction rate,  

This is your opinion, and is not reflected in the data.

This data doesn’t deal with conviction rates.

What does it mean, then, when they speak of “offending” rates? Are they only counting arrests without convictions? Arrests without convictions can hardly be called an offending rate.  If it has nothing to do with convictions, what do the figures come from?

Lois

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Posted: 09 May 2013 09:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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StephenLawrence - 09 May 2013 12:06 AM
George - 08 May 2013 04:35 PM

Of course it is well documented fact that blacks commit more crime than whites.

Aren’t the issues whether more blacks are wrongly convicted than whites and whether the sentences for like crimes are unfairly different?

Stephen

Yes, and I’d like to know where George got his figures that Blacks commit more crime than Whites. 

Lois

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Posted: 10 May 2013 05:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Lois - 09 May 2013 09:59 PM

Yes, and I’d like to know where George got his figures that Blacks commit more crime than Whites.

I learned about it during our last KKK session.

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Posted: 10 May 2013 09:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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What is the Latin for the single cause fallacy?  Post hoc ergo propter hoc, I suppose; though on a literal translation that doesn’t work.  Sorry to intrude, but for some reason this thread brought the question to mind.

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