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Hallelujah: We’re saved! (Merged)
Posted: 22 May 2013 07:31 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/pope-francis-good-atheists_n_3320757.html?ref=topbar

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Posted: 22 May 2013 08:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Allow me to pronounce that Catholics, like Pope Francis who do good, can have redeeming qualities, too, not just humanistic atheists.

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“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

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Posted: 23 May 2013 04:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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A friend of mine who knows more about these things than I says that the pope said nothing about atheists being redeemed or “saved”. All he said is that atheists (like members of other religions) are able to do good.

If so, this isn’t anything new from a theological standpoint, though it makes for good copy.

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Posted: 23 May 2013 04:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Lois - 22 May 2013 07:31 PM

Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/pope-francis-good-atheists_n_3320757.html?ref=topbar

I just read this a moment ago and came running to post it but Lois beat me to it.  Though I have never felt the need to be redeemed by anything it is refreshing to hear the Popes words.  This could be a substantial turning point for the church.

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Posted: 23 May 2013 08:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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dougsmith - 23 May 2013 04:13 AM

A friend of mine who knows more about these things than I says that the pope said nothing about atheists being redeemed or “saved”. All he said is that atheists (like members of other religions) are able to do good.

If so, this isn’t anything new from a theological standpoint, though it makes for good copy.

Yes.  It seems it was more in the way of a statement regarding the extent of Christ’s sacrifice as redeeming the sins of all, even atheists.

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Posted: 23 May 2013 10:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Wow, I read his comments. I like this guy. I think he’s one of the only high profile Christians I’ve heard about actually acting like Christ!  It always struck me as ridiculous that Christians, who are so quick to say we’re all “children of God” can’t seem to make the mental leap that if that’s true, and god thinks of us as her children, then why in the world would she treat some of us an NOT her children? And why in the world would THEY themselves treat others as they do, for example gay people, blacks, etc.

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Posted: 23 May 2013 03:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Meh, big deal, it’s the pope - eff him.

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Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

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Posted: 23 May 2013 05:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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dougsmith - 23 May 2013 04:13 AM

A friend of mine who knows more about these things than I says that the pope said nothing about atheists being redeemed or “saved”. All he said is that atheists (like members of other religions) are able to do good.

If so, this isn’t anything new from a theological standpoint, though it makes for good copy.

Who is unable to do good?  Is the Pope saying that he thinks atheists are able to do good, but it means nothing?  Has anyone in the church ever said atheists are incapable of doing good? If not, what’s the news?  Why would such a statement be necessary if there is nothing attached to it?

Lois

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Posted: 23 May 2013 10:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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This calls for my all-time favorite rendition of the finale of the famous Hallelujah Chorus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zc4vI_Vk-A

Awesome stuff.

grin

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Posted: 23 May 2013 11:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Was that Chorus off a bit at the end?

Back to Francis.  He made a statement re: atheists that can clearly be viewed as positive.  This seems to me to be rather unusual behavior for a Pope.  It shouldn’t matter much to atheists whether the Pope or Catholics believe that atheists are saved by a fictional deity.  But I think that it is important socially that the leader of this massive social/religious organization, clearly points out to his followers that atheists are just as capable of doing good as they are.  This is important because I think that most followers of Christianity and Islam tend to think of atheists as rather intrinsically evil. 

So far, this Pope seems to me to represent a significant change in direction in the leadership of the Catholic church, and a direction that seems to be qualitatively more humanistic.

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“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

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Posted: 24 May 2013 10:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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TimB - 23 May 2013 11:30 PM

Was that Chorus off a bit at the end?

Back to Francis.  He made a statement re: atheists that can clearly be viewed as positive.  This seems to me to be rather unusual behavior for a Pope.  It shouldn’t matter much to atheists whether the Pope or Catholics believe that atheists are saved by a fictional deity.  But I think that it is important socially that the leader of this massive social/religious organization, clearly points out to his followers that atheists are just as capable of doing good as they are.  This is important because I think that most followers of Christianity and Islam tend to think of atheists as rather intrinsically evil. 

So far, this Pope seems to me to represent a significant change in direction in the leadership of the Catholic church, and a direction that seems to be qualitatively more humanistic.

You beat me to the point.  For a pope to say something like this is huge. Don’t forget folks, there are still millions of people who have been indoctrinated to hate atheists. I experienced this hatred personally when a Christian neighbor told her daughter she wasn’t allowed to play with my daughter since her parents were atheists. This was in the 21st century!

The other reason the pope’s remarks are beneficial is that they just put one more nail in the coffin of religion: once people start to believe (‘cause the pope said so) that others can be good without having to believe in a god, they’ll start to question their own beliefs ESPECIALLY when they see members of their church being so sinful, for example the priests.

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Posted: 24 May 2013 12:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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CuthbertJ - 24 May 2013 10:02 AM
TimB - 23 May 2013 11:30 PM

Was that Chorus off a bit at the end?

Back to Francis.  He made a statement re: atheists that can clearly be viewed as positive.  This seems to me to be rather unusual behavior for a Pope.  It shouldn’t matter much to atheists whether the Pope or Catholics believe that atheists are saved by a fictional deity.  But I think that it is important socially that the leader of this massive social/religious organization, clearly points out to his followers that atheists are just as capable of doing good as they are.  This is important because I think that most followers of Christianity and Islam tend to think of atheists as rather intrinsically evil. 

So far, this Pope seems to me to represent a significant change in direction in the leadership of the Catholic church, and a direction that seems to be qualitatively more humanistic.

You beat me to the point.  For a pope to say something like this is huge. Don’t forget folks, there are still millions of people who have been indoctrinated to hate atheists. I experienced this hatred personally when a Christian neighbor told her daughter she wasn’t allowed to play with my daughter since her parents were atheists. This was in the 21st century!

The other reason the pope’s remarks are beneficial is that they just put one more nail in the coffin of religion: once people start to believe (‘cause the pope said so) that others can be good without having to believe in a god, they’ll start to question their own beliefs ESPECIALLY when they see members of their church being so sinful, for example the priests.

Hope springs eternal.

Lois

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Posted: 24 May 2013 07:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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And among the prudent, skepticism, springs regularly, as well. But I would tend not to spit on an olive branch even if it is presented indirectly.

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“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

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Posted: 24 May 2013 08:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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TimB - 24 May 2013 07:01 PM

And among the prudent, skepticism, springs regularly, as well. But I would tend not to spit on an olive branch even if it is presented indirectly.


I’m not so sure it was an olive branch.  I’m afraid I’m more skeptical of the Catholic Church and it’s putative olive branches than you are.

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Posted: 25 May 2013 03:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Religious leaders of any kind are basically the enemy, to me. I will never apologize for that to anyone.

In the case of the Catholic church, I think they have gone so far over the edge that they can never, ever times infinity be trusted again, by even remotely reasonable people. Any metaphorical olive branch they offer has to be rejected, IMO.

[ Edited: 25 May 2013 04:39 AM by mid atlantic ]
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Posted: 25 May 2013 04:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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This is one clarification from the Vatican that can definatley help mankind progress.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/24/fundamentalists-in-panic-after-pope-declares-good-deeds-more-important-than-faith/

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