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Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
Posted: 31 May 2013 09:01 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

People who believe in the barbaric human blood sacrifice of the Triune Jesus/God must believe that the greatest force ever to exist decided that humans,  lowly creations whom we are told are infinitely inferior to God, are somehow more important than God’s own life and that he would give it up for believers.

That is like a slave master dying in place of his slave.  A rather silly notion to me.

Jesus preached that we should develop a humble character with little self-pride.

How is placing your own life above Triune Jesus/God’s showing a humble character as you think that he would die for you? That is taking self-pride to the maximum.

I think that those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it’s benevolence.

Yet Christians who think they are moral will believe that God would do such a despicable thing as having his son killed even as scriptures say that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and does not believe in asking or accepting a ransom.

Is thinking that to believe that God would die for you the epitome of an inflated ego?

If not, what could possibly inflate an ego more than that?

Regards
DL

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Posted: 31 May 2013 09:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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yes

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Posted: 31 May 2013 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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That’s just the tip of the iceberg!  The whole thing is selfish.  If you do good, love god, love jesus, YOU will go to heaven, not your kids, not your mother and father…they’re on their own. Or praying: pick me god pick me, pick my prayer to answer. Even when people thank god…“thank you god for picking me to spare my life in that horrible accident instead of that other poor slob who died”.

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Posted: 31 May 2013 01:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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TromboneAndrew - 31 May 2013 09:36 AM

yes

An honest answer. Perhaps we will be able to communicate after all.

Jesus would have known that those who believed him divine and their savior would not be able to get away from that ego trip and that it would condemn them.

Do you believe that he would put all Christians in such a despicable hell bound anti-Christian position of having to embrace human sacrifice?

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DL

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Posted: 31 May 2013 01:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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CuthbertJ - 31 May 2013 10:20 AM

That’s just the tip of the iceberg!  The whole thing is selfish.  If you do good, love god, love jesus, YOU will go to heaven, not your kids, not your mother and father…they’re on their own. Or praying: pick me god pick me, pick my prayer to answer. Even when people thank god…“thank you god for picking me to spare my life in that horrible accident instead of that other poor slob who died”.

Indeed. Like thanking God for saving a baby in a crash while letting 100 others die.
Only a sick mind would thank God for such.

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DL

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Posted: 31 May 2013 05:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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>>Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?<<

Oh yes, in the extreme. Worse, it’s mind numbingly arrogant.

Think of that pale blue dot which Carl Sagan went on about, and seeing how utterly insignifigent it was in the enormous backdrop of space.

Now, try to offer the proposition that an omnipotent being capable of creating an entire universe on a whim is neurotically obsessed with the affairs of those insignifigant germs on that no-account speck of dust, wants our money, (Why would omnipotence need money) and is obsessive compulsive about whether or not were married to a sexual partner.

Try not to laugh too hard when you offer that one up.

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Posted: 31 May 2013 05:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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In the same sense, it seems egotistical to believe that God created Man in the 1st place.  But to be fair to the internal consistency within the myth, God created Man with free will.  Man, in using his free will, did something to separate himself from God.  In order to rectify this divide, God made a part of himself into a Man, and that Man, also having free will, went along with giving up his mortal existence (painfully so), in order to re-connect Man with God.

That myth does not seem terribly immoral to me. And recognizing that it is egocentric is not a particular condemnation, IMO, as much of what humans do is egocentric. 

What effectively condemns the belief system, IMO, is that it is so obviously a simplistic and erroneous explanation of our reality.

[ Edited: 31 May 2013 05:49 PM by TimB ]
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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 01 June 2013 10:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Greatest I am - 31 May 2013 09:01 AM

Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

People who believe in the barbaric human blood sacrifice of the Triune Jesus/God must believe that the greatest force ever to exist decided that humans,  lowly creations whom we are told are infinitely inferior to God, are somehow more important than God’s own life and that he would give it up for believers.

That is like a slave master dying in place of his slave.  A rather silly notion to me.

Jesus preached that we should develop a humble character with little self-pride.

How is placing your own life above Triune Jesus/God’s showing a humble character as you think that he would die for you? That is taking self-pride to the maximum.

I think that those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it’s benevolence. F

Yet Christians who think they are moral will believe that God would do such a despicable thing as having his son killed even as scriptures say that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and does not believe in asking or accepting a ransom.

Is thinking that to believe that God would die for you the epitome of an inflated ego?

If not, what could possibly inflate an ego more than that?

Regards
DL

EVERYTHING promised and everything believed in by religion is driven by ego and human desires.

Lois

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Posted: 01 June 2013 04:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Prove it!  Sorry scratch that.

Of course it is egotistical to think that a god would die for you.
And I’ll be damn why they ever thought people would buy into such an idea.
But they did. Most likely because of a ego issue.

Occam,
I messed up on that post. Sorry.
I can not remember which post I was trying to respond to.
Some guys can copy the post into the reply.
A skill I have yet to master.
But I should be able to edit the post and fix it.
Mike


My Christian friends say that god did not die. Just the human body. That you can not kill god. And that god left the body before he died. Then came back to the body to resurrect the sole.
But I keep hearing that Jesus died for you sins.
Which I then try and have fun with them.
God created Adam and Lilith and then after Lilith left he got together with eve. 
So the children of Adam and Lilith have no sin.


{EVERYTHING promised and everything believed in by religion is driven by ego and human desires.

Lois}

I would add “—-human desires and fears.”

[ Edited: 03 June 2013 05:57 AM by MikeYohe ]
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Posted: 02 June 2013 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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It would seem that the bible content was either written by a god or by humans.  If the latter, Lois’ statement in post #7 is correct and in need of no further proof, if the former is correct, then it’s up to you, Mike, to prove that a) there is a god, and b) that it wrote the bible.

Occam

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Posted: 03 June 2013 05:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 31 May 2013 05:09 PM

>>Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?<<

Oh yes, in the extreme. Worse, it’s mind numbingly arrogant.

Think of that pale blue dot which Carl Sagan went on about, and seeing how utterly insignifigent it was in the enormous backdrop of space.

Now, try to offer the proposition that an omnipotent being capable of creating an entire universe on a whim is neurotically obsessed with the affairs of those insignifigant germs on that no-account speck of dust, wants our money, (Why would omnipotence need money) and is obsessive compulsive about whether or not were married to a sexual partner.

Try not to laugh too hard when you offer that one up.

The money part is just church greed.
The sexual interference with man has teeth though.

For a bit of musical entertainment, Google Sagan and Starstuff.

Regards
DL

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Posted: 03 June 2013 05:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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TimB - 31 May 2013 05:47 PM

In the same sense, it seems egotistical to believe that God created Man in the 1st place.  But to be fair to the internal consistency within the myth, God created Man with free will.  Man, in using his free will, did something to separate himself from God.  In order to rectify this divide, God made a part of himself into a Man, and that Man, also having free will, went along with giving up his mortal existence (painfully so), in order to re-connect Man with God.

That myth does not seem terribly immoral to me. And recognizing that it is egocentric is not a particular condemnation, IMO, as much of what humans do is egocentric. 

What effectively condemns the belief system, IMO, is that it is so obviously a simplistic and erroneous explanation of our reality.

I agree but cannot understand why you say that embracing human sacrifice and the notion that people should profit from a God, in father persona having his son persona murdered to fill his own requirements is not terribly immoral.

I expected more from you.

Regards
DL

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Posted: 03 June 2013 05:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Lois - 01 June 2013 10:04 AM
Greatest I am - 31 May 2013 09:01 AM

Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?

People who believe in the barbaric human blood sacrifice of the Triune Jesus/God must believe that the greatest force ever to exist decided that humans,  lowly creations whom we are told are infinitely inferior to God, are somehow more important than God’s own life and that he would give it up for believers.

That is like a slave master dying in place of his slave.  A rather silly notion to me.

Jesus preached that we should develop a humble character with little self-pride.

How is placing your own life above Triune Jesus/God’s showing a humble character as you think that he would die for you? That is taking self-pride to the maximum.

I think that those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it’s benevolence. F

Yet Christians who think they are moral will believe that God would do such a despicable thing as having his son killed even as scriptures say that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and does not believe in asking or accepting a ransom.

Is thinking that to believe that God would die for you the epitome of an inflated ego?

If not, what could possibly inflate an ego more than that?

Regards
DL

EVERYTHING promised and everything believed in by religion is driven by ego and human desires.

Lois

+ 1

Yes and in Christianity, the salvation of the soul/ego is number 1.

Regards
DL

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Posted: 03 June 2013 06:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I never really consider it egotistical. More so, I consider it a far reach that people need such a macabre and dramatic story of death, torture and bloodshed. Really? Why would an all-knowing god (who sees the future) create a human race only to have to go through all this drama because Eve made a poor dietary decision based on a talking snakes input. It’s like, “Well, Eve ate that apple, so now you have Cancer/now you have AIDS/now you will have your legs blown off in a war/now you will be killed in a car accident.”

Sorry if all this is too much, but these are the things I think about.

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Posted: 03 June 2013 07:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Greatest I am - 03 June 2013 05:54 AM
TimB - 31 May 2013 05:47 PM

In the same sense, it seems egotistical to believe that God created Man in the 1st place.  But to be fair to the internal consistency within the myth, God created Man with free will.  Man, in using his free will, did something to separate himself from God.  In order to rectify this divide, God made a part of himself into a Man, and that Man, also having free will, went along with giving up his mortal existence (painfully so), in order to re-connect Man with God.

That myth does not seem terribly immoral to me. And recognizing that it is egocentric is not a particular condemnation, IMO, as much of what humans do is egocentric. 

What effectively condemns the belief system, IMO, is that it is so obviously a simplistic and erroneous explanation of our reality.

I agree but cannot understand why you say that embracing human sacrifice and the notion that people should profit from a God, in father persona having his son persona murdered to fill his own requirements is not terribly immoral.

I expected more from you.

 

Then I shall give you more.  In the Jesus myth, Jesus, as an adult male of 33, had a choice as to whether to follow through with his father’s directive.  In reality, today, and through the ages, sons of actual living humans (younger than 33) have regularly been asked or directed to sacrifice their lives (in war) for “a greater cause”. We don’t typically complain that this is immoral.  And in another sense, if someone chooses to sacrifice themselves to save someone else’s life, we don’t consider it immoral. In fact, such self sacrifice is often esteemed.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 03 June 2013 08:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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If you want a Biblical story that seems immoral to me, it is the God/Abraham/Isaac story.  It seems immoral to me that Abraham intended to murder a child (his own) just because God told him to.  It also, seems immoral to me, that God tricked Abraham into thinking that murdering his child was going to be required.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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