11 of 23
11
Definition of Atheist
Posted: 29 June 2013 09:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 151 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2602
Joined  2012-10-27
MikeYohe - 29 June 2013 01:08 PM

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=10924496#post10924496

**** This guy 1peter315 says he is an atheist and is on this forum and he defending his atheists’ thinking by explaining what there are two forms of atheism. 


For me, the reason why this is true is because of what atheism is. I define atheism as:
The belief that there are no gods. (Strong atheism)
A lack of belief in any gods. (Weak atheism)

Well, you’re wrong.  There is only one kind of atheism. This is the root of the word: a=without; theism=belief in god. 

In other words atheism is a lack of belief in god; an atheist is one who has no belief in god. When it comes to atheism, an atheist has no beliefs.  He or she does not believe there is no god.  An atheist simply lacks belief and rejects the concept of god because no objective evidence of a god has ever been presented by a believer in any of the thousands of gods anyone has proposed.  There is no weak or strong atheism, there is only atheism—a lack of belief in god. 

Until you can understand and accept the true meaning of atheism and atheist, without trying to redefine what those words mean, there is no reason for any rational person to debate you on any topic related to belief.  To attempt to do so would be like trying to discuss mathematics with someone who has no concept of what mathematics is or means. It would be a complete waste of time.

Lois

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 June 2013 05:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 152 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  493
Joined  2013-06-01

Can we just deal with FACTS?
What do the facts tells us.

To an Atheist – The word “Atheist” means no GOD period.
To a Christian – The word “Atheist” means there is a GOD you just don’t have belief.

That’s the facts and that’s the problem.

You can say all the Christians are wrong and don’t know how to read a dictionary but that will not changes the facts.

When you say they have to understand Atheism, no they don’t, because they already have an understanding.

Then you have the problem that a lot of Atheists (like 1peter315) are confused as to the meaning.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 June 2013 05:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 153 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  493
Joined  2013-06-01

Write4U Post #149         Define God, then we can talk.


I could not agree more. The word “God” like the word “Atheist” has different meaning to people.

My feeling is that Christians do not like the subject of defining “god”, because it makes them think and acknowledge there are other gods in the world today, which is against their belief.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 June 2013 06:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 154 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1283
Joined  2011-03-12

Can we just deal with FACTS?

Mike, Lois DID deal with the facts. You’re trying to pidgeon hole something to fit your own worldview and no matter how passionately you repeat the same tired old arguments, it just won’t make any of it so.

Atheism is a LACK of belief.

Period.

No matter how many times you claim otherwise, that all there is to it.

 Signature 

Question authority and think for yourself. Big Brother does not know best and never has.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 July 2013 01:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 155 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5997
Joined  2009-02-26
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 30 June 2013 06:49 PM

Can we just deal with FACTS?

Mike, Lois DID deal with the facts. You’re trying to pidgeon hole something to fit your own worldview and no matter how passionately you repeat the same tired old arguments, it just won’t make any of it so.

Atheism is a LACK of belief.

Period.

No matter how many times you claim otherwise, that all there is to it.

I totally agree with you in context of lack of belief in (a) god or deity. However I do “believe” your statement was to broad in scope. May I suggest a small narrowing of the statement to read,

“Atheism is a LACK of belief in (a) god or deity”.

I say this only to prevent any theist from claiming that atheists lack belief in anything, including beliefs in justice, fairness, morals, etc.

IMO this is a key point as the broad interpretation would suggest atheists have no conviction of any kind and therefore are unrestrained from moral behavior. We have all heard that one many times before.

In fact I recall some time ago a person claiming that without his belief in god (the punisher), he would feel free to do anything he wanted including murder. He claimed that would be the inevitable result of atheism. Clearly he did not understand the term atheist.

[ Edited: 01 July 2013 02:48 AM by Write4U ]
 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 July 2013 10:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 156 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  493
Joined  2013-06-01

It is not about how we see ourselves, it is how others see us.

The Atheists are 10% of the people and not all “Atheists” have a problem on understanding what an Atheist is, but some do.

The other 90% of the people see “Atheist” differently using the same definitions. 

In Post #151 Lois says I am wrong. I do not think Lois understands that is not my thinking. It is the thinking of Atheist 1peter315.
I posted what is being talked about on the web forums.

In Post #154 Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon, You are missing the whole point. It is not about what I think. It is about the 90% of people that understand Atheist differently than you do.
If you do not want to be understood in the world, then stay in your pigeonhole. Otherwise take a serious look at the FACTS. 
Fact is that “Atheist” also have trouble understanding what “Atheist” means. Just look at Post #151.
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon do you think the Atheist in Post #151 is just stupid, uneducated or just unable to know what he understands his thoughts are?

Fact, if words are not understood to have the same meanings to all people then the chances of having any meaningful dialect is greatly reduced.
Fact, EOC and Lois are happy being in a cult. Part of being in a cult is to have meanings that the mass of the people do not understand and that is what the FACTS are showing here.
Just ask anyone in a cult, they will tell you that you really don’t understand the meaning of the cult and try and correct your understanding of certain terms or meanings of the cult.
And that’s what we have here. 90% of the world understands one meaning but the 10% “Atheist” have another meaning. Any way you turn it, it has all the makings of a cult.
Can anyone tell why I am having trouble stating “Facts”? I could get into details but that takes up so many pages that the main thought gets lost and never addressed.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 July 2013 03:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 157 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1283
Joined  2011-03-12

The Atheists are 10% of the people and not all “Atheists” have a problem on understanding what an Atheist is, but some do.

The other 90% of the people see “Atheist” differently using the same definitions.

So what?

In Post #154 Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon, You are missing the whole point. It is not about what I think. It is about the 90% of people that understand Atheist differently than you do.

You ARE missing the point. You’ve been spending a lot of words overthinking the problem. As to “It is about the 90% of people that understand Atheist differently than you do.” again, so what? What you’re doing here is appealing to numbers as if that alone somehow makes it right.

It doesn’t.

If 6.5billion people believe something but it’s wrong, then it’s wrong. The sheer numbers who believe something to be so doesn’t make it so. If it’s wrong, then it’s wrong.

Period.

 Signature 

Question authority and think for yourself. Big Brother does not know best and never has.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 July 2013 03:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 158 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5997
Joined  2009-02-26

TO those who do not understand the word Atheist, I “believe” the answer can be found in any reputable dictionary.

The burden is not on the atheist to explain atheism. The burden lies with the theist to explain Theism.  Once we have established that it is a vague notion, based on a thousand myths, as evidenced by any reputable dictionary, and once the word theist is “no longer” valid, then the word atheism will not be necessary and we have cleared the matter to the satisfaction of all.

 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 July 2013 05:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 159 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  493
Joined  2013-06-01

EOC Post #157
When 90% of the people don’t understand you,
You say, “So what”.

So what, if 90% of the people you can not fully communicate your beliefs with.
So what, if you are viewed by some as a cult.
So what, if Atheist themselves have different views of what the meaning is.
So what, if you do not care how other people view you.
So what, if you are wrong about sheer numbers, dictionaries are based upon mass understandings, not the view of the few.

What is right when it comes to communication?

Would it not be great if 100% of the people understood you?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 July 2013 06:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 160 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5997
Joined  2009-02-26

We keep trying!

 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 July 2013 05:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 161 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1283
Joined  2011-03-12

You say, “So what”.

That’s right. “So what?” To all of that. Every bit of it. You’re still playing the appeal to numbers game and that’s a logical fallacy.

What is right when it comes to communication?

How about the people who don’t understand actually listening to the people who do? You should try it.

Would it not be great if 100% of the people understood you?

Would it be NICE if 100% of the people understood you? Yes.

Is it realistic to expect that they will?

No.

Is it realistic to expect that they even want to?

Hell no!

That doesn’t change the absolute fact which we have been trying to get across to you in your several months of taking a dirt simple meaning and excessively complicating it.

For the last time: “An atheist is one who LACKS a belief in any god or gods.”

There is nothing more to it then that and you’re not going to change that reality with excessively complicated arguments.

 Signature 

Question authority and think for yourself. Big Brother does not know best and never has.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 July 2013 07:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 162 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  493
Joined  2013-06-01

And by saying “An atheist is one who LACKS a belief in any god or gods”.

You have just admitted that there is a god or gods. You just lack belief in the gods.

Tell me EOC is that what you really believe that there are gods, and you just lacking in your belief?

That what 90% of the world says you are saying.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 July 2013 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 163 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5488
Joined  2010-06-16
MikeYohe - 02 July 2013 07:28 AM

And by saying “An atheist is one who LACKS a belief in any god or gods”.

You have just admitted that there is a god or gods. You just lack belief in the gods.

Tell me EOC is that what you really believe that there are gods, and you just lacking in your belief?

That what 90% of the world says you are saying.

  Sorry Mike, but your initial interpretation of EOC’s statement is just plain wrong.  I believe he’s saying that his belief system doesn’t accept the existence of any god.

And, while you may think that’s what EOC is saying, I strongly doubt that 90% of the world would have that interpretation.

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 July 2013 12:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 164 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5997
Joined  2009-02-26

OK Mike, one last try to satisfy your skeptical readings of the definition of the word atheism.

Seems the phrase “lack of belief in” has created an assumption that this is a tacit admission of the existence of a god. Actually to an atheist that is an ad hominem.

“Atheism is a lack of belief that any god exists” or “has ever existed” or “will ever exist”.  It is a rejection of the word god, except as a term used by theists.

Does that finally make the issue clear? It has nothing to with believing or not believing “in” an existent god. It is a non-belief in the existence of a god, regardless of the number of people who believe that “their” god exists. Please read the statement prima facie without your personal semantic interpretation of the subtle implications contained in the phrase ” lack of belief in”.

You have to move on with this.

[ Edited: 02 July 2013 12:51 PM by Write4U ]
 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 July 2013 02:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 165 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1283
Joined  2011-03-12

And by saying “An atheist is one who LACKS a belief in any god or gods”.

You have just admitted that there is a god or gods. You just lack belief in the gods.

No I’m not.

I’m explaining to you what the correct definition of “atheist” happens to be. There’s a huge difference between accurately presenting a simple fact (Which is what I’ve done) and expressing a belief or system of beliefs which I personally hold.

Tell me EOC is that what you really believe that there are gods, and you just lacking in your belief?

Irrelevant to what I’ve been trying to explain.

That what 90% of the world says you are saying.

Once more, SO WHAT? I don’t give a flip what the world says or thinks.

You need to stop looking for complexity where it doesn’t exist.

And I’m going to stop banging my head on the wall by wasting any further time with you. You’re not listening and you’re doing exactly the same thing which theists do when they try to misrepresent what atheism is.

 Signature 

Question authority and think for yourself. Big Brother does not know best and never has.

Profile
 
 
   
11 of 23
11
 
‹‹ A Thitd Sex?      Excellent definition ››