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Definition of Atheist
Posted: 17 July 2013 10:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 196 ]
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Scott,
Just tell them that AA is actually a Muslim conspiracy: Allah = Al(coholics)Ah(nonymous).  oh oh
But then I guess you’d have to prepare for a big party as everyone comes off the wagon!

I am located in Southern California and everything is part of some sort of system. Most of the members have drug related problems. The state and federal government has so many drug related programs that it seems to me that most of these younger members think that they are fore filling a need, and helping the government by supplying the bodies needed for these programs to operate.
The programs are 4 year programs, but some members are now 12 years and counting. It’s a lifestyle.
We do not get involved in most of the drug programs, because it is nothing more than the state having taken liability for people that they can not handle and wanting to dump their problem people on us. 
The AA also uses a 12 step program. We hold the AA meeting at our location but do not run the meeting. If they fail the AA, we do one of two things, we can let them start over or we kick them back out on the street.

Get this, we are given more food than we can handle. A military base is close by. They have warehouses of food stored there. And they do not want to ship the food overseas if the expiration date is close to a year and on some food two years. So they dig a hole and bury the food. The environmental law now say that some of the cans are hazardous. So the military is giving us all the food we can use.

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Posted: 17 July 2013 01:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 197 ]
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I didn’t ask you how we came to create the myth of God, I suggested it is not the best place to start when discussing God with a believer.

If so then it may be best to let your cousin live life with god.

Except in rare cases, like a guy I know who found Jesus and stopped doing meth, I don’t think irrational belief is best for most people. It leads to irrational actions. We need more rational people in the world today making rational decisions before blow each other up or blacken the sky.

Again this is true, but I also felt that Atheists were missing the “Power of God” and just focusing on the Deity.

Yeah, and I think you’re wrong about that. That was the gist of my post.

read all the different definitions of the word Atheist

Been there, done that.

Historians think it would help explain the evolving of religion in more detail if we had this book today.

Which historians are these? Obviously any ancient source document would be helpful, but I expect it would shed more light on what the authors of that book thought than any actual insight into earlier religions.

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Posted: 17 July 2013 04:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 198 ]
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Lausten,

RE: Create the myth of God.
Yes, I was going to fast and did not comprehend your question properly, sorry.

RE: Yeah, and I think you’re wrong about that. That was the gist of my post. [Again this is true, but I also felt that Atheists were missing the “Power of God” and just focusing on the Deity.]


Ok I now understand where the confusion is.


Lausten,

75% of Americans say they are Christians who believe in a deity that Atheists claim don’t and never did exist.

Just like your friend who found Jesus (god) and stopped doing meth.

Do you think he found the real McCoy, or just the irrational belief?

Then you have to ask yourself is there any power in “Belief”?

Religion in America is mostly ‘Belief’ based.


My question to you is “Do you think belief has “Power”’?


If you say no, then explain Write4U post #183.
If you say yes, then there is the Deity plus the Power of God that has to be dealt with.

Added after post.
Thought, I believe in LOVE, and the “Power of Love”. Yea, I was around in the 60’s.
Is “Love” a belief? I would call it more of a feeling. And i would say it has a lot of power in humans. A defiant form of “Power”.

I have seen some Christians have some of the same type of feelings about religion as people do about love. And don’t think that i would call it irrational as much as a reaction to answering a human need.

[ Edited: 17 July 2013 04:23 PM by MikeYohe ]
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Posted: 17 July 2013 07:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 199 ]
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Do you think he found the real McCoy, or just the irrational belief?

You are a very silly man.

Yea, I was around in the 60’s.

I bet you were.

[ Edited: 17 July 2013 07:55 PM by Lausten ]
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Posted: 17 July 2013 09:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 200 ]
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Lausten,

You do a good side step for a Christian.
And a lot of this does seem silly to me. I am a great grandfather so I do some times have generation communication issues. I find this web site helps me learn better communication skills, even though I still have a long ways to go and that I will never reach the level of most of the posters on this site.
I know that to answer the question requires you to declare your views on god and I can understand you not wanting to do this or you’re not at that point in your life.

Let’s work together and work on the thought of your post.

[The question of you is, if you don’t think “god is not real” is the right place to start, then where should we?]

I am seeing two beliefs by the Christians. All Christians believe in the “Power of God”. But not all Christians believe in the Deity of God.

The atheist is saying the Power of God is real.
The atheist is saying the Deity of God is man made.

If the Atheist says they do not believe in god. They are wrong. Because they do believe there is the Power of God.

The Atheist should say - No, I do not believe that the supposed deity that Christians purport to be the creator and ruler of the universe does exist.

This way the Atheist addresses the Deity and does not step on the Power of God.

Do you agree?

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Posted: 18 July 2013 06:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 201 ]
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I thought you said you don’t have time for semantic games? What you are calling the “Power of God” is the societal forces that make up how religion works and how the power structures of it are used, etc. You may also be touching on the desires we all have for connectedness but I’m not sure about that.

So when you say something like, “If the Atheist says they do not believe in god. They are wrong.” You are playing semantic games. Because atheists are using the words as they are commonly used. I’m not going to do definitions with you because I’ve read enough of your posts to know you will just go round in circles with them.

The “power of God” rests on his existence, regardless of whether you think of him as a bearded guy or white light. Likewise everyone has a different reason for believing. Some saw Jesus in a dream, others felt something during a Christmas sermon, others got it on a hike. What matters is none of them examined the experience and understood it was just an experience and not something that connected them to powers that don’t exist. Unless you count the power to be manipulated into dropping 20 bucks into a collection plate every Sunday.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 08:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 202 ]
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I thought you said you don’t have time for semantic games? What you are calling the “Power of God” is the societal forces that make up how religion works and how the power structures of it are used, etc. You may also be touching on the desires we all have for connectedness but I’m not sure about that.

The results of a 2009 Pew Survey: 31 percent of U.S. adults believe “humans and other living things have existed in their present form since the beginning of time.”
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=faith-and-foolishness

The math is looking like 75% of Americans are Christians and that 59% of those Christians do not believe in Creation.
So how can they be Christians?
I think they believe in “The Power of God”.

So when you say something like, “If the Atheist says they do not believe in god. They are wrong.” You are playing semantic games. Because atheists are using the words as they are commonly used. I’m not going to do definitions with you because I’ve read enough of your posts to know you will just go round in circles with them.

You need to read more of the posts. Example: Write4U Post #190 “Truer words were never spoken. History is filled with examples of “the power of god”.”

What I am seeing is that when the atheist views the Christian belief more closely they can see it is not always about the Deity and they do recognize there is the “Power of God”.

The “power of God” rests on his existence, regardless of whether you think of him as a bearded guy or white light. Likewise everyone has a different reason for believing. Some saw Jesus in a dream, others felt something during a Christmas sermon, others got it on a hike. What matters is none of them examined the experience and understood it was just an experience and not something that connected them to powers that don’t exist. Unless you count the power to be manipulated into dropping 20 bucks into a collection plate every Sunday.

Yes, Yes and Yes, we agree except on his existence. If you believe the earth is 12,000 years old and the whole story of creation then you have the bible’s deity. Otherwise you have the Power of God.

And it has been agreed that Christmas is not all about Santa Claus, but Santa Claus is about Christmas. I doubt you can tell me any personal facts or information about Santa Claus, you might know more about Rudolph the red nose reindeer than Santa Claus.

The same with God. The bible is not so much about the Deity of God as it is about the Power of God.

And that is where I find that if the Atheist takes a close look at this issue. The Atheist will agree there is a Power of God but they do not believe in the deity.

Deity
1. god or goddess
a god, goddess, or other being regarded as divine.

Where we differ.

What I am understanding you to say is that like Christmas is based upon Santa Claus and you can’t have Christmas without Santa Claus.

What I am saying is that the towns and people do not celebrate Santa Claus, they celebrate the spirit of Christmas. And Christmas is celebrate by many people who believe in the spirit of Christmas and do not believe that Santa Claus existed. Ask these people “Do you believe and celebrate Christmas?” And they will say “Yes”. Ask the same people “Do you believe in Santa Claus?” And they will say “No”.

The circle is broken. This is not semantic games.

Power.
I think you see power as some thing that is transmitted from God.
I see power as part of the makeup of mankind, like love and hurt.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 08:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 203 ]
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What I am understanding you to say

You are not understanding me at all, and you aren’t trying. You are having a conversation with yourself.

When I said, “the power of God rests in his existence”, I should have said, “the power of God rests in BELIEF in his existence”, but other than that, I think I’ve been clear. Why you think I’m a Christian, I don’t know. You are responding like a poorly written computer program.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 10:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 204 ]
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You have failed to answer most of the questions.
Please, make your point clear by answering all the questions.
Otherwise you leave me guessing at the unanswered parts which happen to be the most important part of the subject. 

Your statement “the power of God rests in his existence” does not explain why 59% of Christians do not believe in Creation! If you believe in the Deity would you not have to believe in Creation?

I think your statement is wrong. I think the power of God is in the contract for after life. If 59% do not believe in Creation, then they must believe the contract exists with Jesus and not the Creator.

Where are the Deity’s in Buddha and Hindu religions?

As it turns out you are the one playing semantic with the power of god.

[Why you think I’m a Christian, I don’t know.]

Did you not say in 2009 in a blog that you considered yourself a Christian? Or did I misread the post, if I did then I apologize, sorry.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 12:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 205 ]
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Wow, awesome research, but like most things you talk about, you only scratched the surface then made up the rest to fit your own ideas. I’m not going to let you control this conversation and tell me what questions I must answer, and I’ve told you why above.

If you read my blog, winter60.blogspot.com that might help. I’d give you a link but CFI is spam filtering me for some reason

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Posted: 18 July 2013 12:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 206 ]
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You might go to the personal mail section or send him an e-mail.

Occam

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Succinctness, clarity’s core.

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Posted: 18 July 2013 05:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 207 ]
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Lausten - 18 July 2013 08:35 AM

What I am understanding you to say

You are not understanding me at all, and you aren’t trying. You are having a conversation with yourself.

When I said, “the power of God rests in his existence”, I should have said, “the power of God rests in BELIEF in his existence”, but other than that, I think I’ve been clear. Why you think I’m a Christian, I don’t know. You are responding like a poorly written computer program.

Does the power of unicorns rest on belief in their existence?

Neither unicorns nor gods have power.  Belief has power. We know belief has the power to destroy.  Whether it has power to do good has never been demonstrated.

Lois

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Posted: 22 July 2013 05:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 208 ]
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Lois - 18 July 2013 05:47 PM
Lausten - 18 July 2013 08:35 AM

What I am understanding you to say

You are not understanding me at all, and you aren’t trying. You are having a conversation with yourself.

When I said, “the power of God rests in his existence”, I should have said, “the power of God rests in BELIEF in his existence”, but other than that, I think I’ve been clear. Why you think I’m a Christian, I don’t know. You are responding like a poorly written computer program.

Does the power of unicorns rest on belief in their existence?

Neither unicorns nor gods have power.  Belief has power. We know belief has the power to destroy.  Whether it has power to do good has never been demonstrated.

Lois

Belief has power that can be used for both bad and good.  Just ask any of the several 1000 of us who were helped by catholic charities and the various religious sonsered food banks here in Buffalo when the local steel industry left in the 70s.  These were created by those who were putting their xtian beliefs to good ends.

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Gary the Human

All the Gods and all religions are created by humans, to meet human needs and accomplish human ends.

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Posted: 22 July 2013 05:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 209 ]
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garythehuman - 22 July 2013 05:10 PM
Lois - 18 July 2013 05:47 PM
Lausten - 18 July 2013 08:35 AM

What I am understanding you to say

You are not understanding me at all, and you aren’t trying. You are having a conversation with yourself.

When I said, “the power of God rests in his existence”, I should have said, “the power of God rests in BELIEF in his existence”, but other than that, I think I’ve been clear. Why you think I’m a Christian, I don’t know. You are responding like a poorly written computer program.

Does the power of unicorns rest on belief in their existence?

Neither unicorns nor gods have power.  Belief has power. We know belief has the power to destroy.  Whether it has power to do good has never been demonstrated.

Lois

Belief has power that can be used for both bad and good.  Just ask any of the several 1000 of us who were helped by catholic charities and the various religious sonsered food banks here in Buffalo when the local steel industry left in the 70s.  These were created by those who were putting their xtian beliefs to good ends.

They just believed it was xtian power, but really the unicorn power made them do it.

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Posted: 23 July 2013 12:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 210 ]
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Summary Log of Step One.

Post #0   Point - Wikipedia, God - an object of faith.

Post 2. Definition of “theist”.
Post 3. Lack a belief in any god. Over thinking problem.
Post 4. Faith doesn’t rely on objective evidence.
Post 5 - 8. An atheist has no faith in god as defined by theologians.
Post 9.  Dictionary vs. Wikipedia meaning.
Post 16. Can deductive reasoning play a role in faith?
Post 17. If the conceptualization of God evolves.
Post 19. So, is the need for God in our DNA.
Post 21. Mike you are getting tangled up in semantics.
Post 29. According to Dr. Terence Meaden,
Post 31. Does religion have positive value?
Post 33. Religions tend to have elements of superstition.
Post 34.  An atheist is one who lacks a belief in any god or gods.
Post 38.  So there lies the problem in the definition of god.
Post 49. Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That’s it.
Post 50. “The supposed deity that Christians purport to be the creator and ruler of the universe.”
Post 60. Presupposing.
Post 63. Atheist - A person who believes that the supposed deity that Christians purport to be the creator and ruler of the universe does not exist.
Post 75. The arguments of Atheists against dualistic conceptualizations of God, is like 5th graders badgering 3rd graders about their lack of education.
Post 82. It is not dualistic conceptualization in the presence of Gnostic thought.
Post 87. One who rejects all gods and all faith. It’s that simple.
Post 91. brmckay; Sort of agreeing with you, at least I think so.
Post 92. Definition of god.
Post 98. Religious DNA.
Post 102. Atheist - anyone who proposes the position of their absence of belief in theistic principles or claims of truth about the world based precisely on them because the support for such beliefs do not provide sufficient evidence to justify their claims either directly or indirectly.
Post 105. The ubiquity of religiosity across the world, and across human history and even, seemingly, prehistory, suggests the possibility of something being in play beyond just memes.
Post 111. The origins of religion is identical to the origins of knowledge and wisdom itself.
Post 131. Man has always needed a god; even before he needed pottery he had gods.
I do not claim there is a god, but I do claim that the metaphysical condition exists. And if god is a metaphysical condition then there has to be a clear understanding of what god is or we will not be able to separate the metaphysical conditions that are not god with out great difficulty.
Post 138. I think that questioning definitions of labels is important. I always thought of myself as equally “atheistic” as my cat. I was surprised to discover that many atheists actually disagree with this because they felt that you would have to have the conscious recognition of the religious perspective first.
Post 149. Define God, then we can talk.  To identify God as a creative force is vague and tells us nothing.
Post 153. Christians do not like the subject of defining “god”, because it makes them think and acknowledge there are other gods in the world today, which is against their belief.
Post 155. July 1st.  “Atheism is a LACK of belief in (a) god or deity”.
Post 168. Dr. Terence Meaden pointed out that it was not the use of the word “Belief” at all. It was the use of the word “God”.
Post 171. Atheism is a human construct, a position on an idea. It has multiple dimensions: intellectual, social and personal at least. Many movement atheists say that strong atheism is a strong positive assertion that “there is no god!” I think that’s a silly position to take, and a self-contradictory one if one of its main launching points is that there isn’t any proof that a god exists. Still, many atheists take that view, and we can hardly deny that they are without a belief in any god.
Post 178. July 15th, Ok. i can accept that.

Summary Log of Step Two July 15th up to July 23, 2013
Post 179. the meaning of the word “GOD” has changed. God does exist.
Post 180. It’s the power of human imagination, not god.
Post 183. There is a name for this phenomena where thought can create a being, which takes on a life of its own. These entities (demons) are rumored come by various names and exist for those who believe in them. Just like God being created by belief.
Post 186. They are all man made conceptualizations. You believe in one, you concede the existence of all the others.
Post 187. You conclude that God has power because the changes in society are affected by the belief; but you transferred this belief into a real physical existence of what people interpret the belief to imply.
Post 188. it is wrong for atheists to ignore the “power of god”.
Post 189. Rational understanding is a very slow process.
Post 191. Even the most liberal believers tend to believe that there exists something real to it—not just some practical application of positive thinking to get through life. It’s delusional and can be very dangerous.
Post 194. The problem is not that atheists try to point this out, the problem is very few people examine their own beliefs.
Post 207. Neither unicorns nor gods have power.  Belief has power.
Post 208. Belief has power that can be used for both bad and good.

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