20 of 23
20
Definition of Atheist
Posted: 30 July 2013 08:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 286 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6175
Joined  2009-02-26

Witness Hypatia, who was literally torn to pieces by a religious mob.

Regarded as the first woman astronomer, Hypatia was also an accomplished mathematician, an inventor, and a philosopher of Plato and Aristotle, She lived during the late 4th, early 5th centuries—a time of great change.

http://www.womanastronomer.com/hypatia.htm

[ Edited: 30 July 2013 08:16 PM by Write4U ]
 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2013 09:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 287 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  629
Joined  2013-06-01

Lois,
I have to agree with you, it would be very bad for an atheist to speak out in any Arab country.

You have not presented one fact.

Billions of people believe in some kind of god or many and those gods number in the hundreds. To say that billions of people believe in god is a false claim because they do not believe in one god.  Besides that, it doesn’t matter how many people believe in anything, it has no bearing on the truth of the claim. None at all. Yours is an argument from popularity, a fallacious argument.

You should not only look at the facts, you should learn the difference between a fact and a claim with no evidence. You have shown here that you don’t know the difference.  When you do, come back and we can talk.


Lois, facts are “the proof is in the churches, institutions, and gathering of people, books, songs, buildings, prayer and people commitment.” These are physical facts that do exist in the Power of God. Christians that believe in Evolution, just like the Atheist, also believe in God. Not as the creator of 6 day earth, (as in the bible) but as the creator of intelligent design (that’s not in the bible) that can only be described as the “Power of God”.

Standard thinking would be, so what, if the Christians got it wrong, they need to fix it, not us. That does not hold true when we are the 2%ers. We need to fix this. The Christians are just fine with the word Atheist not being understood the way the Atheist would like, after all, I agree that no Atheist are having any trouble with the meaning.

What I am now seeing is it is the Atheists who is having trouble understands the facts. And the fact is that there is a “Power of God” that is in the mind and is real.
Take a real hard look at how the Christians view god today. Especially the ones that believe if Evolution.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 July 2013 06:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 288 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1486
Joined  2009-10-21

You had to go and bring facts into this. First, 1 of 6 people in the world have no religious affiliation. Second, every church I’ve ever heard of, every scripture, speaks to the problem of people claiming to be part of a religion but not living by it. It’s just part of religion that people accept the label but ignore most of the beliefs and the beliefs change over time, that’s all you’re seeing. You seem to have some insight into the minds of billions of people that nobody else has. I’m pretty sure you don’t. I’m pretty sure you are misinterpreting the data that you have barely skimmed over.

Buildings, and people checking a box on a form that says “Protestant” don’t mean much. Those are, as you say, “physical facts”, but they don’t lead to the conclusion “These are physical facts that do exist in the Power of God.” That is barely a coherent sentence.

Read a book for Christ’s sake. Or just read some blogs. You’ll find that you are lacking data and that it is not true “that no Atheist are having any trouble with the meaning”. Scientists, regardless of their spiritual beliefs, are doing a lot of study on the mind, on how it reacts to culture, to indoctrination, to contradictory information. It’s really quite interesting. Your time would be much better spent studying that than sitting at your computer making erroneous claims.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 July 2013 12:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 289 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  629
Joined  2013-06-01

Lausten,
It’s just part of religion that people accept the label but ignore most of the beliefs and the beliefs change over time, that’s all you’re seeing.

That’s what I am seeing too. From the time when the creation of Intelligent Design came about, I’ve seen the rapidity shifting views of the “Power of God” where it is now the response to every one of questions and view points that were unresolved issues between the Atheist and Christians before.

For example, DNA, astronomy, stems cells, scientific discoveries and so forth used to be part of the Atheists backyard. Now it is taken over as just part of God’s Intelligent Design. Thus the meaning of Atheist says that this God’s Intelligent Design is bogus and not to give it any weight. As the hard headed Atheist is standing their ground the Intelligent Design is steam rolling over them.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 August 2013 08:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 290 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2602
Joined  2012-10-27
MikeYohe - 31 July 2013 12:41 PM

Lausten,
It’s just part of religion that people accept the label but ignore most of the beliefs and the beliefs change over time, that’s all you’re seeing.

That’s what I am seeing too. From the time when the creation of Intelligent Design came about, I’ve seen the rapidity shifting views of the “Power of God” where it is now the response to every one of questions and view points that were unresolved issues between the Atheist and Christians before.

For example, DNA, astronomy, stems cells, scientific discoveries and so forth used to be part of the Atheists backyard. Now it is taken over as just part of God’s Intelligent Design. Thus the meaning of Atheist says that this God’s Intelligent Design is bogus and not to give it any weight. As the hard headed Atheist is standing their ground the Intelligent Design is steam rolling over them.

No, they aren’t.  Nobody is steamrolling over atheists.  Just because the IDers have now decided that their god actually created evolution, astronomy, DNA, stem cells, and other scientific discoveries, intelligent people don’t fall for such specious arguments. 

You have fallen into their trap. The atheist community has not. I don’t know one atheist who thinks atheists have been steamrollered by Christians’ transparent stupidity. We all have more sense than that.  In fact it’s quite funny. We’re having a good time.

Lois

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 August 2013 08:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 291 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  629
Joined  2013-06-01

You have fallen into their trap. The atheist community has not.

Lois,
A couple points.
First the Atheist has no problem with the definition.
Second the Christian has no problem with the definition either.
Third, the Christian comprehension is different than the Atheist’s comprehension of the definition.
Fourth, the Christians don’t care and are not going to change the definition. Why, because it is right where the Church wants it to be.

How long is it going to be before the Christians view the Atheists as just a part of the Intelligent Design?
The Atheist is the one telling the Christian what the meaning is. Don’t you think it would be a good idea if we made them understand exactly what we are saying?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 August 2013 06:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 292 ]
Member
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  108
Joined  2013-05-31

Not recognizing the signs of Theology evolving to a more accurate representation of ultimate Truth?

Foolish, stubborn, self righteous, stuck in rhetoric?  Which camp does this apply to now?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 August 2013 12:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 293 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2602
Joined  2012-10-27
MikeYohe - 02 August 2013 08:24 PM

You have fallen into their trap. The atheist community has not.

Lois,
A couple points.
First the Atheist has no problem with the definition.
Second the Christian has no problem with the definition either.
Third, the Christian comprehension is different than the Atheist’s comprehension of the definition.
Fourth, the Christians don’t care and are not going to change the definition. Why, because it is right where the Church wants it to be.

How long is it going to be before the Christians view the Atheists as just a part of the Intelligent Design?
The Atheist is the one telling the Christian what the meaning is. Don’t you think it would be a good idea if we made them understand exactly what we are saying?

Atheists have the right and responsibility to define their position, just as theists have.  Theists shouldn’t claim to know what atheists think or how they define themselves.  The same thing goes for atheists.  They should not be presuming to know what a theist is or what an theist’s position is.  That would be the height of a straw man argument. You define your opponent’s position and argue against a false definition because it’s easier to do than arguing against the truth.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2013 10:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 294 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1486
Joined  2009-10-21

Theists shouldn’t claim to know what atheists think or how they define themselves.

Not sure I’m following here Lois. I agree that Mike’s definition is way off but it seems here like you are saying it is not even possible for theists and atheists to understand each other. I’m taking your statements to an extreme but the way you wrote it up, there are only straw man positions, any attempt to reflect and clarify is out of bounds.

Having spent a lot of effort to develop a worldview, I feel mine is correct and theists are dysfunctional in some way. I’m sure they feel the same. If we can’t explain to each other what we think the other is thinking, how do we ever fix this situation?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2013 10:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 295 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  629
Joined  2013-06-01

If we can’t explain to each other what we think the other is thinking, how do we ever fix this situation?

Bingo

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2013 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 296 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2602
Joined  2012-10-27
Lausten - 05 August 2013 10:28 AM

Theists shouldn’t claim to know what atheists think or how they define themselves.

Not sure I’m following here Lois. I agree that Mike’s definition is way off but it seems here like you are saying it is not even possible for theists and atheists to understand each other. I’m taking your statements to an extreme but the way you wrote it up, there are only straw man positions, any attempt to reflect and clarify is out of bounds.

Having spent a lot of effort to develop a worldview, I feel mine is correct and theists are dysfunctional in some way. I’m sure they feel the same. If we can’t explain to each other what we think the other is thinking, how do we ever fix this situation?

Sometimes it isn’t possible for atheists and theists to understand each other. It’s only a straw man argument when one party redefines the position of his opponent and argues against that redefinition.

We can ask the other person to say what he is thinking.  We can ask further questions to clarify our understanding.  We can agree on a definition before starting the debate.  I’m sure atheists have misinterpreted theists’ positions on occasion, but I hear bad definitions of atheists over and over again from theists,  no matter how many times atheists have tried to explain that atheism to most atheists is simply a lack of belief in any deity on evidentiary grounds and that they don’t “believe” there is no god. It seldom has any effect.  They will come back with the misdefinition time and time again and will argue against their definition.  It’s as of they cant understand that a person can reject a claim without believing something about it.  They seldom understand the difference. Unfortunately, there are a few atheists who don’t understand the difference, either.

Lois

[ Edited: 05 August 2013 01:52 PM by Lois ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2013 12:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 297 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2602
Joined  2012-10-27
TimB - 01 June 2013 07:19 PM
Mike Yohe - 01 June 2013 05:07 PM

...

What is faith? It is what ever you want to believe.
So where does that leave the meaning of “Atheist”?

I think that faith is more of a verb than a noun, i.e., deciding to believe something without relying on the presence or absence of any, natural and objective, supporting or countervailing evidence. Anyway the important part is that faith doesn’t rely on objective evidence.

What does it rely on, then?

Lois

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2013 01:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 298 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  629
Joined  2013-06-01

Lois,
What does it rely on, then?

Human needs.
The makeup of mankind.
That that makes us humans.
The desire to live forever.
To have the most powerful entity in the universe to talk to and have a relationship with.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2013 02:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 299 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2602
Joined  2012-10-27
MikeYohe - 05 August 2013 01:18 PM

Lois,
What does it rely on, then?

Human needs.
The makeup of mankind.
That that makes us humans.
The desire to live forever.
To have the most powerful entity in the universe to talk to and have a relationship with.

In other words, wishful thinking.

It is not a human need, since many people don’t have that need.  It isn’t what makes us human unless you are claiming that atheists are not human.

Not everyone has a desire to live forever, and certainly not an expectation. Many people have more sense than that.

A most powerful entity in the universe is a figment of the imagination and that we humans could actually talk to such an entity and have a relationsip with it if one did exist is even more laughable.

You may be right that those reasons are the reasons people would give, but that doesn’t mean they are rational or that humans with normal intelligence wouldn’t see through it if they weren’t indoctrinated into believing impossible things.

Lois

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2013 02:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 300 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  629
Joined  2013-06-01

Lois,
What would the movies be like if all humans were rational and did not believe in impossible things?

Profile
 
 
   
20 of 23
20
 
‹‹ A Thitd Sex?      Excellent definition ››