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Definition of Atheist
Posted: 03 June 2013 09:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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Yea, it was in the news a couple weeks ago. The Neanderthal which was thought to have been eliminated by modern man was in fact inter-bred with modern man, and now they think that the Neanderthals were just as smart as the modern man. This was done with DNA. Not sure, but I think they said 2% is the amount of Neanderthal genes the average person has today.

[ Edited: 03 June 2013 10:55 PM by MikeYohe ]
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Posted: 03 June 2013 10:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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Mike, thank you for that post. Very interesting.

However it does not prove anything about the existence of a biblical god. Whatever “knowledge’ was passed on through the ages is merely hearsay, no more than any mythological account of creation or the dawn of man.

Red clay existed long before life occurred on earth. It is also known as “Ultisol” and may well be the cradle of most land based life on earth. Note that it is common to all current continents.

from wiki,

The word “Ultisol” is derived from “ultimate”, because Ultisols were seen as the ultimate product of continuous weathering of minerals in a humid, temperate climate without new soil formation via glaciation.

and

The oldest fossil Ultisols are known from the Carboniferous period when forests first developed. Though known from far north of their present range as recently as the Miocene, Ultisols are surprisingly rare as fossils overall, since they would have been expected to be very common in the warm Mesozoic and Tertiary paleoclimates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultisols

Sounds like a nursery to me. And it is already a prepared medium for decoration. Scrape a little clay, mix a little water and presto an almost perfect non fading paint.

speculation,
Perhaps red pigment is just part of history in the evolution of man. Of all colors, deep red evokes the deepest emotions in our ‘mirror neural network’. Oddly, sky blue evokes the most tranquil emotions.  Earth…..Life…...Fire…....Water…....Sky.

[ Edited: 03 June 2013 10:48 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 03 June 2013 11:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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Write4U   Post 47
Almost there.

Yes, you are right. But who wants a biblical god?  In the time mankind has been on earth, very little of that was with a biblical god.

These burials are very important.
Man loves his family.  When a member died, the burial is the last he will see of that member. When man learned to mummify he could keep and visit the dead family member.

The burial methods say a lot about mankind and the way he view god.

Why would you mummify and talk to a dead corpus if you did not think it could hear you?

In my option.
Man first needed a god to funnel his love and hurt. So the first gods were created to deal with the feelings of love and wanting of mankind. You can not say that about the biblical god.

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Posted: 04 June 2013 03:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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Then are all Buddha and Hinduism atheist?

Some are, some aren’t. It’s not important to their creed and Buddha doesn’t even have a godhead.

Seems to me like you’re quibbling over sematics, metephores and figures of speech as if they somehow prove something and they don’t.

You’re pretty much still overthinking it.

Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That’s it.

Don’t make it any more complicated by going off on irrelevant tangents.

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Posted: 05 June 2013 01:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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EOC Post #49

I still can’t see the light.

Atheism

Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That’s it.

Well, where the heck are we now?

I do not have belief in any god, so I am an “Atheist”, right.

But I do not deny there is a god. I know for fact there is a god, because man created god.

Then you got -
The fastest growing religion in America today is Pentecostal. They now claim 200,000,000 members and they think that god gave them the ability to speak in tongues.
Note, by the way, I do not believe they have 200M members.

I do believe that god is real in their lives, yes the god that mankind created.

So my thinking is in line with Dr. Terence Meaden’s who says by accepting today’s definition of “Atheist” , like the one in The Oxford English Dictionary, you are in fact presupposing that ‘God’ exists.

Just like when you EOC make the statement;
Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That’s it.

You are in fact presupposing the “God” exists.

Is that what you really want to do? Admit that there is a real god, but your just a non-believer.

[ so not to confuses the matter, God in the OED is the Creator and Ruler of the Universe, which when I say I know there is a god, it is not the Creator, I believe god reaches no further than in mankind’s mind. Like Star wars is in mankind’s mind.]

Dr. Terence Meaden says it would be better if “Atheist” was defined the following way.

“The supposed deity that Christians purport to be the creator and ruler of the universe.”

And that my friends would also solve the problem with my way of thinking too.

FYI - The CIA says atheists are 2% of the world’s population.

[ Edited: 05 June 2013 01:35 PM by MikeYohe ]
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Posted: 05 June 2013 04:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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Sorry Mike Yohe, but you’re still flat out wrong and overthinking the problem. You’re looking for complexities and nuances which are either irrelevant, or do not exist.

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Posted: 05 June 2013 06:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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Mike Yohe - 05 June 2013 01:05 PM

EOC Post #49

I still can’t see the light.

Atheism

Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That’s it.

Well, where the heck are we now?

I do not have belief in any god, so I am an “Atheist”, right.

But I do not deny there is a god. I know for fact there is a god, because man created god.

Then you got -
The fastest growing religion in America today is Pentecostal. They now claim 200,000,000 members and they think that god gave them the ability to speak in tongues.
Note, by the way, I do not believe they have 200M members.

I do believe that god is real in their lives, yes the god that mankind created.

So my thinking is in line with Dr. Terence Meaden’s who says by accepting today’s definition of “Atheist” , like the one in The Oxford English Dictionary, you are in fact presupposing that ‘God’ exists.

Just like when you EOC make the statement;
Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That’s it.

You are in fact presupposing the “God” exists.

Is that what you really want to do? Admit that there is a real god, but your just a non-believer.

[ so not to confuses the matter, God in the OED is the Creator and Ruler of the Universe, which when I say I know there is a god, it is not the Creator, I believe god reaches no further than in mankind’s mind. Like Star wars is in mankind’s mind.]

Dr. Terence Meaden says it would be better if “Atheist” was defined the following way.

“The supposed deity that Christians purport to be the creator and ruler of the universe.”

And that my friends would also solve the problem with my way of thinking too.

FYI - The CIA says atheists are 2% of the world’s population.

Atheists have demonstrated generally greater knowledge of Abrahamic Scripture than most Theists.

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Posted: 05 June 2013 08:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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Write4U - 05 June 2013 06:11 PM

Atheists have demonstrated generally greater knowledge of Abrahamic Scripture than most Theists.

Did you see this too?
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0105/Are-you-smarter-than-an-atheist-A-religious-quiz/When-does-the-Jewish-Sabbath-begin

I was going to post this as a topic after I took the quiz, as my score was going to be much higher than the average atheist/agnostic. smile  But the site and formatting for the quiz was so unwieldy, that i could never get to the end of the quiz. It kept locking up before I could finish.

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Posted: 05 June 2013 11:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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Mike Yohe - 05 June 2013 01:05 PM

I do not have belief in any god, so I am an “Atheist”, right.

But I do not deny there is a god. I know for fact there is a god, because man created god.

This is nonsense.

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Posted: 06 June 2013 12:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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Mike Yohe - 05 June 2013 01:05 PM

Just like when you EOC make the statement;
Atheism is a lack of belief in any god. That’s it.

You are in fact presupposing the “God” exists.

Is that what you really want to do? Admit that there is a real god, but your just a non-believer.

[ so not to confuses the matter, God in the OED is the Creator and Ruler of the Universe, which when I say I know there is a god, it is not the Creator, I believe god reaches no further than in mankind’s mind. Like Star wars is in mankind’s mind.]

Dr. Terence Meaden says it would be better if “Atheist” was defined the following way.

“The supposed deity that Christians purport to be the creator and ruler of the universe.”

 

Your wordplay is not going to inspire anyone here.

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Posted: 06 June 2013 12:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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Speaking of Terence Meaden, I googled him, and eventually found this:
http://www.atheistnexus.org/group/originsuniverselifehumankindanddarwin/forum/topics/goddidnotdoit-versus-godism-and-fantasy-beliefs-atheist-sees

Pretty funny.  I guess I should pay more attention to my toast.

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Posted: 06 June 2013 02:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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C’mon Tim, you should be a little bit more serious. See my breakfast-epiphany here.

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Posted: 06 June 2013 10:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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Mid atlantic   Post #55
Your wordplay is not going to inspire anyone here.
********************************

Now let’s put that to the test.

Concentrate on the subject matter of the sentence which is “God”.

The quote - Atheism is a lack of belief in any god.
The result - You are in fact presupposing the “God” exists.

Test 1. – Subject matter money.
The quote - Atheism is a lack of belief in any money.
Definition - You are in fact presupposing the “money” exists.
The result – TRUE - Everyone thinks the subject matter exists
The thinking by believers – money exists, they believe in it.
The thinking by Atheist – money exists, just don’t have any belief in money. 

Key Point – The two sides view of the subject matter the same.

Test 2. - Subject matter Bigfoot.
The quote - Atheism is a lack of belief in Bigfoot.
Definition - You are in fact presupposing the “bigfoot” exists.
The result – FALSE - Everyone does not think Bigfoot exists. The two sides disagree.
The thinking by believers – Bigfoot exists your just a non-believer.
The thinking by non-believers – Bigfoot never existed.

Key Point - The two sides view the subject matter differently.


Do you see the thought?
Say Atheist on this forum and everyone knows exactly what you mean. You believe there is no God.
Do the same thing on a Christian forum and everyone knows exactly what you mean. You believe there is a God, you’re just a non-believer in God. And you are just having trouble seeing the light (belief in god).

In other words, the subject matter must be clear to both sides for the meaning to be the same to both sides.

Go to the website in TimB post and read what Dr. Terence Meaden says, he has a much better way with words than I do.


So how did the definition that we use end up in the dictionary?

When the definition of Atheist was established, it was done at a time when it was accepted by everyone that God existed. And those atheists are just non-believers in a god that does exist.

Today the number of atheists is much higher.
The CIA said in 2010 the atheists are now 2% of the world’s population.

Maybe the meaning needs updated.

[ Edited: 06 June 2013 11:34 AM by MikeYohe ]
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Posted: 06 June 2013 11:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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I don’t get how saying you don’t believe in something, presupposes that it exists.

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Posted: 06 June 2013 12:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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Ya, I know TimB, you don’t see it much, you would have to go to a court trial, and watch the lawyers who are masters at twisting the meaning of subject matters.

It is how the mind works. My guess is that it will not work on you or most thinkers of reason, therefore no body in this forum may see the trouble.

Example.

Note, I am not talking about you, me or anyone’s in the forum’s understanding; I want to use the thinking in the world as a whole.

“I do not believe there is aliens.”

Will everyone who reads the quote get the same meaning?

Some will think, that I think there is no aliens. 
Some will think that there is aliens, but I just don’t believe there are aliens.

What Dr. Terence Meaden says, that by the fact the quote uses the word “aliens” as the subject matter, that you are recognizing there is “aliens”.
He says it is “presupposing”.

The fact that you say aliens, gives a level of recognition to the word “aliens”. 
You have to presuppose there is aliens to be able to even speak of or about the aliens.

My thought is “presupposing” is only done by a fraction of the people and will vary by subject matter.
When it comes to the word “God”, I think that presupposing is done by a huge fraction of the people.

That’s what happens to a lot of people, and the good lawyers know how to use this flaw in people to help with the trial.

The more two view point disagrees the more this can happen.

When the word “atheist” was defined. The mass of the population understood that there was a god and the god did exist.

That why Dr. Meaden thinks that we should define “atheist” differently.

“The supposed deity that Christians purport to be the creator and ruler of the universe.”

This way the subject matter is understood by both sides. And you eliminate the possibility of “presupposing”.

[ Edited: 06 June 2013 12:37 PM by MikeYohe ]
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