4 of 6
4
Your fearless “leader”....
Posted: 14 June 2013 09:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2799
Joined  2011-11-04

Cloak, We don’t disagree that he boat is sinking.  We disagree about who is poking the most holes in the boat, who is most trying to repair the holes, and who is most keeping the holes from being repaired.  We also, seemingly disagree about the solution, as I think that your solution is to let the boat sink and hope that some can make it to shore and build a new boat.

 Signature 

“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 June 2013 11:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  582
Joined  2010-04-19
TimB - 14 June 2013 09:53 PM

Cloak, We don’t disagree that he boat is sinking.  We disagree about who is poking the most holes in the boat, who is most trying to repair the holes, and who is most keeping the holes from being repaired.  We also, seemingly disagree about the solution, as I think that your solution is to let the boat sink and hope that some can make it to shore and build a new boat.

No, that’s not my solution, friend. I’m arguing that we should cast off the weights that are making this boat sink in the first place: capitalism, this debt-based monetary system that it spawned, consumerism, and the illegitimate centralized authorities that are protecting all of it. We need to adopt localized, direct, and participatory democracies in which the people themselves are in charge of the country, not some untouchable group of ruling elites. In fact, this is what the Occupy Movement was really about, telling Wall Street to give us back our country. Unfortunately, the very group that we have appealed to for backup in this endeavor were the same people who decided to protect Wall Street instead.

[ Edited: 15 June 2013 12:57 PM by Cloak ]
 Signature 

Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee -

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2013 03:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2588
Joined  2011-04-24
TimB - 14 June 2013 09:58 AM

Are you saying that there is not an almost equal number who desperately want Obama to fail and who do not desperately want him to be blocked from doing anything productive?

The cult of personality among Obama is cool, so that is what the f*** actually matters. He was elected twice, remember.

 Signature 

Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2013 02:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2799
Joined  2011-11-04
mid atlantic - 15 June 2013 03:16 AM
TimB - 14 June 2013 09:58 AM

Are you saying that there is not an almost equal number who desperately want Obama to fail and who do not desperately want him to be blocked from doing anything productive?

The cult of personality among Obama is cool, so that is what the f*** actually matters. He was elected twice, remember.

Being cool, wasn’t the deciding factor in Obama getting elected twice.  It is true that some love him.  It is equally true that some despise him.  I believe that the most important factor in him getting elected twice was that he ran two of the most well organized campaigns in history.

 Signature 

“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2013 03:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2245
Joined  2012-10-27
TimB - 15 June 2013 02:50 PM
mid atlantic - 15 June 2013 03:16 AM
TimB - 14 June 2013 09:58 AM

Are you saying that there is not an almost equal number who desperately want Obama to fail and who do not desperately want him to be blocked from doing anything productive?

The cult of personality among Obama is cool, so that is what the f*** actually matters. He was elected twice, remember.

Being cool, wasn’t the deciding factor in Obama getting elected twice.  It is true that some love him.  It is equally true that some despise him.  I believe that the most important factor in him getting elected twice was that he ran two of the most well organized campaigns in history.

What got Bush elected the one time he was elected? What got Reagan elected twice? What got Bush I elected? Dumb luck?

Lois

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2013 03:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4142
Joined  2008-08-14

Cloak-No, that’s not my solution, friend. I’m arguing that we should cast off the weights that are making this boat sink in the first place: capitalism, this debt-based monetary system that it spawned, consumerism, and the illegitimate centralized authorities that are protecting all of it. We need to adopt localized, direct, and participatory democracies in which the people themselves are in charge of the country, not some untouchable group of ruling elites. In fact, this is what the Occupy Movement was really about, telling Wall Street to give us back our country. Unfortunately, the very group that we have appealed to for backup in this endeavor were the same people who decided to protect Wall Street instead.

I’m sure with some moderate legislative action and some real reforms all around you could be happy in this system. There’s no need to
throw away the baby with the bath water.  The system just needs a long overdue tune-up.
It sounds like you’re proposing radical change and a complete new system. That’s impractical and it aint gonna happen.
The system we have is pretty good. It does need reform, and we are in a malaise I agree.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2013 03:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2799
Joined  2011-11-04
Lois - 15 June 2013 03:10 PM
TimB - 15 June 2013 02:50 PM
mid atlantic - 15 June 2013 03:16 AM
TimB - 14 June 2013 09:58 AM

Are you saying that there is not an almost equal number who desperately want Obama to fail and who do not desperately want him to be blocked from doing anything productive?

The cult of personality among Obama is cool, so that is what the f*** actually matters. He was elected twice, remember.

Being cool, wasn’t the deciding factor in Obama getting elected twice.  It is true that some love him.  It is equally true that some despise him.  I believe that the most important factor in him getting elected twice was that he ran two of the most well organized campaigns in history.

What got Bush elected the one time he was elected? What got Reagan elected twice? What got Bush I elected? Dumb luck?

Lois

Dumb voters.

 Signature 

“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2013 03:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2799
Joined  2011-11-04

Actually, Karl Rove was one of the most effective political manipulating phenoms of his day.  (Not to say that I don’t despise the man.)  Reagan got elected the first time by going against Jimmy Carter who was crippled by the Iran hostage crisis. He got elected the 2nd time because enough people bought into his smooth B.S.

 Signature 

“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2013 11:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2588
Joined  2011-04-24
Lois - 15 June 2013 03:10 PM
TimB - 15 June 2013 02:50 PM
mid atlantic - 15 June 2013 03:16 AM
TimB - 14 June 2013 09:58 AM

Are you saying that there is not an almost equal number who desperately want Obama to fail and who do not desperately want him to be blocked from doing anything productive?

The cult of personality among Obama is cool, so that is what the f*** actually matters. He was elected twice, remember.

Being cool, wasn’t the deciding factor in Obama getting elected twice.  It is true that some love him.  It is equally true that some despise him.  I believe that the most important factor in him getting elected twice was that he ran two of the most well organized campaigns in history.

What got Bush elected the one time he was elected? What got Reagan elected twice? What got Bush I elected? Dumb luck?

Lois

Their fan bases.

 Signature 

Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2013 11:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2588
Joined  2011-04-24
TimB - 15 June 2013 02:50 PM
mid atlantic - 15 June 2013 03:16 AM
TimB - 14 June 2013 09:58 AM

Are you saying that there is not an almost equal number who desperately want Obama to fail and who do not desperately want him to be blocked from doing anything productive?

The cult of personality among Obama is cool, so that is what the f*** actually matters. He was elected twice, remember.

Being cool, wasn’t the deciding factor in Obama getting elected twice.  It is true that some love him.  It is equally true that some despise him.  I believe that the most important factor in him getting elected twice was that he ran two of the most well organized campaigns in history.

I think it was because his competition was not as cool as him.

Even if he ran bad campaigns, he probably would have still won.

 Signature 

Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 01:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7641
Joined  2008-04-11

Romney just plain creeped me out. Any GOP I may have voted for was knocked out early.

 Signature 

Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 01:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  582
Joined  2010-04-19
VYAZMA - 15 June 2013 03:20 PM

Cloak-No, that’s not my solution, friend. I’m arguing that we should cast off the weights that are making this boat sink in the first place: capitalism, this debt-based monetary system that it spawned, consumerism, and the illegitimate centralized authorities that are protecting all of it. We need to adopt localized, direct, and participatory democracies in which the people themselves are in charge of the country, not some untouchable group of ruling elites. In fact, this is what the Occupy Movement was really about, telling Wall Street to give us back our country. Unfortunately, the very group that we have appealed to for backup in this endeavor were the same people who decided to protect Wall Street instead.

I’m sure with some moderate legislative action and some real reforms all around you could be happy in this system. There’s no need to
throw away the baby with the bath water.  The system just needs a long overdue tune-up.
It sounds like you’re proposing radical change and a complete new system. That’s impractical and it aint gonna happen.
The system we have is pretty good. It does need reform, and we are in a malaise I agree.

I think it’s fairer to say that this “overdue tune-up” you speak of is never going to happen, not while the constructs that we’ve built to prevent such solutions still exist.

Look, I’m not saying that the Libertarian-socialist vision of society is exactly the way things should work. I’m just saying that anything that is remotely close to it is better than this. That’s what we should be shooting for, instead of repeatedly placing our hope in the next slick package that the Rebloodlicans or Democrips introduce to us.

And it is not about finding a system that “I could be happy in”. I am more concerned about my two daughters’ futures.

 Signature 

Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee -

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 12:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2799
Joined  2011-11-04
mid atlantic - 15 June 2013 11:22 PM
TimB - 15 June 2013 02:50 PM
mid atlantic - 15 June 2013 03:16 AM
TimB - 14 June 2013 09:58 AM

Are you saying that there is not an almost equal number who desperately want Obama to fail and who do not desperately want him to be blocked from doing anything productive?

The cult of personality among Obama is cool, so that is what the f*** actually matters. He was elected twice, remember.

Being cool, wasn’t the deciding factor in Obama getting elected twice.  It is true that some love him.  It is equally true that some despise him.  I believe that the most important factor in him getting elected twice was that he ran two of the most well organized campaigns in history.

I think it was because his competition was not as cool as him.

Even if he ran bad campaigns, he probably would have still won.

I disagree.  If Coolness alone were sufficient to becoming POTUS, I would think that we would have had a lot more cool Presidents.  In Obama’s case, it probably helped overcome the reputation of being a Kenyan born, Socialist, Muslim named Barack.  And probably helped overcome the fact that he is a black man in America. I doubt that he would have been elected twice, if at all, without the likes of David Axelrod, and the organized use of social sciences. e.g., http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/health/dream-team-of-behavioral-scientists-advised-obama-campaign.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 Signature 

“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 12:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2799
Joined  2011-11-04

BTW, mid, You seem to be pretty cool.  Perhaps you could test your assertion by running for office.

 Signature 

“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 June 2013 10:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2588
Joined  2011-04-24
TimB - 16 June 2013 12:44 PM

BTW, mid, You seem to be pretty cool.  Perhaps you could test your assertion by running for office.

I’m under 35.

But if I had the opportunity to run for political office, I might - just for experimental purposes!

 Signature 

Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

Profile
 
 
   
4 of 6
4