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Posted: 24 June 2013 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]
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Watch this, people.

This right here is the type of talk that changes things. This is the type of talk that changes the conversation. Not bickering back and forth about who’s party is the most evil or stupid.

[ Edited: 24 June 2013 02:01 PM by Cloak ]
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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

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Posted: 25 June 2013 10:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]
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Cloak - 22 June 2013 11:18 AM

You want to know why the Tea Party flooded the House? It’s actually much simpler than you may think. As small as they are (in comparison to the liberal class), they won because they actually believed what they preached, and they put boots to the ground. They simply outdid the liberals. They were so serious that they even scared the heck out of the Republican Party.

You’re kidding right? The so-called Tea Party was/is an astroturf creation, i.e. fake, created and financed by among others, the Koch brothers. Don’t give these numbskulls an ounce of credit, other than yes for being an efficient pack of dumb dogs who can be lead wherever their masters lead them. I mean for crying out loud, remember the poster child for tea partiers who held out the sign “Keep your hands off my medicare”. That right there should tell you something.

No Obama lost because he let everyone who supported him down. He campaigned like a liberal, then acted like a Republican, and a timid one at that. Dems and Liberals got disgusted because we’d been fooled again.

I’m not sure what the solution is. It’s the basic problem you see in so many contexts: how do thoughtful, conscientious, people who value compromise, engagement, etc. co-exist with ignorant brutes and bullies who view compromise and engagement as weakness, and battle and conquest as positives? And moreover, have an end-justify-the-means religious attitude?

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Posted: 25 June 2013 01:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]
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CuthbertJ - 25 June 2013 10:41 AM
Cloak - 22 June 2013 11:18 AM

You want to know why the Tea Party flooded the House? It’s actually much simpler than you may think. As small as they are (in comparison to the liberal class), they won because they actually believed what they preached, and they put boots to the ground. They simply outdid the liberals. They were so serious that they even scared the heck out of the Republican Party.

You’re kidding right? The so-called Tea Party was/is an astroturf creation, i.e. fake, created and financed by among others, the Koch brothers. Don’t give these numbskulls an ounce of credit, other than yes for being an efficient pack of dumb dogs who can be lead wherever their masters lead them. I mean for crying out loud, remember the poster child for tea partiers who held out the sign “Keep your hands off my medicare”. That right there should tell you something.

No Obama lost because he let everyone who supported him down. He campaigned like a liberal, then acted like a Republican, and a timid one at that. Dems and Liberals got disgusted because we’d been fooled again.

I’m not sure what the solution is. It’s the basic problem you see in so many contexts: how do thoughtful, conscientious, people who value compromise, engagement, etc. co-exist with ignorant brutes and bullies who view compromise and engagement as weakness, and battle and conquest as positives? And moreover, have an end-justify-the-means religious attitude?

No, I’m not saying that I agreed with everything they advocated. I’m just saying that they did a heck of a better job mobilizing than the liberal class did. Combine that with the fact that Obama wasn’t producing the “change” that he so adamantly guaranteed, and it was only a matter of time.

Stop getting so caught up with someone giving a compliment to the people you don’t like. Focus on the main point, which is that you were outdone. I’m not a part of the tea-party, but I am honest.

And before you start pointing to money (ie. the Koch Brothers and whoever else) as the reason that the liberal class lost, then also take note of the fact that Obama completely outdid Romney by a large margin in the 2012 election. So money isn’t the issue, apathy is. If I wanted to demonize the left like you guys so happily want to demonize the right, I could point to how stupid and gullible the left is for falling for Obama’s crap TWICE. And then there’s the point that they aggressively defend virtually everything he does as if he is not responsible for anything. I mean, really, Obama’s been pulling off some of the craziest nonsense for years, yet only now, that this whole surveillance fiasco has surfaced (something that radical leftists and right libertarians have been pointing out for years) does the left start speaking up? As if he just started bombing innocent Middle-Eastern families and american citizens (including a 16 year old american citizen that wasn’t even on the terrorist list) yesterday?. I’ll tell you what the problem is: you people don’t give a lick what Obama does, until you can personally see it affecting you. The truth is, most liberals will not start speaking up until one of their own family members gets killed by a drone in Seattle or Houston. But even then, there is still that small percentage that will still tow the party line, saying that it was “to protect us from those terrorists”.

It is this crap that has the current and younger generations so sick of the Republicans and the Democrats. It is why left-anarchism and far right libertarianism is growing.

Jill Stein, Gary Johnson, and Ron Paul were all people who advocated ACTUAL changes, not minor tweaks to a failing system. You don’t have to agree with all of them, as they have staunchly different ideologies, but at least give them credit for being sincere. THATS what the young people are gravitating to, not just more political flattery and “left vs. right” bickering. These people actually target the government, the biggest culprit in ALL of this nonsense. Instead, Republicans and Democrats STILL continue to support candidates who turn out to be nothing more than corporate employees, and many of you still will.

If you want to call a political group/party stupid and gullible, then be fair in your assessment and spread the love a little more, as they aren’t the only ones that deserve it…..

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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee -

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Posted: 26 June 2013 10:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]
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I’m saying the 2010 election in particular was the result of many not all liberals abandoning Obama, rightly so IMO, AND the astro-turf Koch funded tea party. The 2012 election was a different thing entirely. The tea party by that point had run it’s course, and proved itself to be a pack of ignorant dogs. I think that’s what got out the Dem vote more than anything Obama did.  On most of your other points I agree with you.

ADDITION: I do agree with you on another point. The TP does often act like a well coordinated group, or packs of animals, despite the fact they started as astroturf. That is a definite strength, as hard as it is for a liberal like me to admit. And right here on CFI we have a good example of the weakness of liberal groups…the post in General Discussion about Point of Interest RIP.  It’s a perfect demonstration of the circular firing squad liberals are so good at. So while the liberals are arguing about who should paddle and in what direction, the conservatives are not only paddling in synch, and furiously because of all the “red meat” their leaders promise them, they’re also lobbing stones into the liberal boats as fast as they can.

[ Edited: 26 June 2013 10:42 AM by CuthbertJ ]
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Posted: 26 June 2013 10:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]
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CuthbertJ - 26 June 2013 10:10 AM

I’m saying the 2010 election in particular was the result of many not all liberals abandoning Obama, rightly so IMO, AND the astro-turf Koch funded tea party. The 2012 election was a different thing entirely. The tea party by that point had run it’s course, and proved itself to be a pack of ignorant dogs. I think that’s what got out the Dem vote more than anything Obama did.  On most of your other points I agree with you.

ADDITION: I do agree with you on another point. The TP does often act like a well coordinated group, or packs of animals, despite the fact they started as astroturf. That is a definite strength, as hard as it is for a liberal like me to admit. And right here on CFI we have a good example of the weakness of liberal groups…the post in General Discussion about Point of Interest RIP.  It’s a perfect demonstration of the circular firing squad liberals are so good at. So while the liberals are arguing about who should paddle and in what direction, the conservatives are not only paddling in synch, and furiously because of all the “red meat” their leaders promise them, they’re also lobbing stones into the liberal boats as fast as they can.

How about we stop focusing on secondary issues, and start focusing on the increasingly oppressive regime that is destroying our countries? I’m sure it makes our egos feel really good to bash other political parties and pretend that we are the only intelligent people in the room, but are they really the chief problem here?

What I’m saying is that we need to focus on what we have in common, and that is oppression. But we can’t start to unite on these issues when we are still patting ourselves on the back and constantly reminding ourselves about how much better we are than those “evil and stupid conservatives.”

I thought the liberal class were the ones who adopted the language of solidarity? If so, why do we still have people who claim to be “liberals” referring to those who disagree with them as “ignorant dogs”? Isn’t this the language of the white supremacists as well as the murderers of the Native Americans? Isn’t this the type of language that people like MLK fought to do away with? They are actually real people, you know, not “packs of wild animals”. It is so easy to demonize people until you’ve actually spent time with them and understood their perspectives. I have. This is where healthy debate about the issues start, not in circle-jerk forums where people do nothing but point fun at the “loonies” and preach to the choir all day.

If you can’t learn to speak about your fellow brothers and sisters without resisting the urge to demonize them, then you aren’t ready to deal with the real problems at hand. This country is being slowly, but systematically destroyed, and the Republicans, Tea Party, and Democrats will all go down with it. There will be no discrimination then.

[ Edited: 26 June 2013 10:11 PM by Cloak ]
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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee -

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Posted: 27 June 2013 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]
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Yes, your post was very nice, but naïve.  The problem IS that basically thoughtful liberals (in congress we call them spineless Dems) are trying to deal with well funded ignorant religious bullies.  You want to have a nice kumbayah get together with the conservatives to try to address our common problems. Wonderful.  They want to beat you up, steal your money, and force your daughter to give birth. While you’re focusing on “conflict resolution for a common cause” they’re laughing at you and trying to take away your rights. And yes, I’ve spent time with them and know they’re perspective. I’ve described it in this post pretty accurately.

I’m NOT saying I have the answer, but I am saying you’re naïve in thinking it’s just a matter of sitting down over coffee to discuss our differences.

[ Edited: 27 June 2013 10:22 AM by CuthbertJ ]
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Posted: 27 June 2013 12:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]
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CuthbertJ - 27 June 2013 10:20 AM

Yes, your post was very nice, but naïve.  The problem IS that basically thoughtful liberals (in congress we call them spineless Dems) are trying to deal with well funded ignorant religious bullies.  You want to have a nice kumbayah get together with the conservatives to try to address our common problems. Wonderful.  They want to beat you up, steal your money, and force your daughter to give birth. While you’re focusing on “conflict resolution for a common cause” they’re laughing at you and trying to take away your rights. And yes, I’ve spent time with them and know they’re perspective. I’ve described it in this post pretty accurately.

I’m NOT saying I have the answer, but I am saying you’re naïve in thinking it’s just a matter of sitting down over coffee to discuss our differences.

I’m sorry that you’ve given up hope, friend, but I understand. I just try to distinguish between something that is completely impossible and something that is just really difficult. The truth is, none of us here know whether or not it is possible to solve these issues, but I tend to think it’s worth trying, especially when there are no other viable solutions. Perpetuating the same division, cynicism, and passivity will only continue to contribute to the collective paralysis that we are finding ourselves in. The difference between us and this growing global oligarchy that is bleeding all of us dry and destroying everything is not just that they have more resources than the rest. It’s that they are consistently active in their conquest. They don’t sleep, brother. And they are a heck of a lot more united than the rest of us.

I sincerely apologize if my posts tend to feel excessively aggressive at times. It’s more of a sense of urgency than anger. We have to try to fight against this. Otherwise, the next stop is a neo-feudalistic future where sweatshop slavery is the norm. Perhaps it’s inevitable, but I will still die fighting it.

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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee -

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