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Whoa!  Lay Off the Vitamins!
Posted: 09 January 2014 03:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 301 ]
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Taking a vitamin supplement incorporates compounds into the body which are metabolized and put to use by the body.
They can and are used to supplement diets that are lacking in the FDAs listed requirements for daily vitamin and mineral intake.

Which part of this is a belief system?
Anybody?  Take a crack at it.

[ Edited: 09 January 2014 03:37 PM by VYAZMA ]
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Posted: 09 January 2014 03:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 302 ]
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..... the authors concluded that there was no clear evidence of a beneficial effect of supplements on all-cause mortality, cardiovascular disease, or cancer.

Wow! So were back to the causes cancer vs. prevents cancer meme!

Thank gosh I don’t need to worry about any of this.  I just take multi-vitamins to supplement my diet’s nutritional values as part of a
healthy lifestyle, after reviewing the values I get from my average food diet.

Who would be stupid enough to take vitamins to prevent “all-cause mortality”?(all cause mortality? LOL )
Or any other types of diseases….

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Posted: 09 January 2014 03:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 303 ]
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Let me know when you find a test that shows ingesting multi-vitamins doesn’t introduce needed compounds into the body for metabolism.
Let me know when you find a study that shows that taking a multi-vitamin is not useful to supplement a diet as part of a healthy lifestyle.

So we see that the title of this thread is about megadosing on vitamins can cause cancer.
The thread sometimes veers off into how vitamins cannot prevent cancer(or all mortality).

And then there’s the 100s millions of people who benefit from vitamin supplementation as part of a healthy diet.

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Posted: 09 January 2014 03:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 304 ]
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VYAZMA - 09 January 2014 03:28 PM

..... the authors concluded that there was no clear evidence of a beneficial effect of supplements on all-cause mortality, cardiovascular disease, or cancer.

Wow! So were back to the causes cancer vs. prevents cancer meme!

Thank gosh I don’t need to worry about any of this.  I just take multi-vitamins to supplement my diet’s nutritional values as part of a
healthy lifestyle, after reviewing the values I get from my average food diet.

Who would be stupid enough to take vitamins to prevent “all-cause mortality”?(all cause mortality? LOL )
Or any other types of diseases….

I know.  No one here said they cure or prevent cancer, any other disease, or YIKES! mortality.  oh oh  Nor are we talking about megadosing (overdosing, is what that really is).  Yet, he’s making it sound as though we are, even though we’ve both examined our “average diet”, though vegetarianism is not the average American diet of high fat, high sugar, meat, and potatoes.

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Posted: 09 January 2014 03:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 305 ]
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Mriana - 09 January 2014 03:38 PM

I know.  No one here said they cure or prevent cancer, any other disease, or YIKES! mortality.  oh oh  Nor are we talking about megadosing (overdosing, is what that really is).  Yet, he’s making it sound as though we are, even though we’ve both examined our “average diet”, though vegetarianism is not the average American diet of high fat, high sugar, meat, and potatoes.

Yes that’s my favorite part of that study…the “prevents mortality” part. Quality study no doubt…. wink

Maybe you and I are just trolling here Mriana.  Perhaps we should just let other people get in here who want to discuss
the dangers of overdosing on vitamins or talk about how vitamins can’t be used to prevent cancer, cure cancer or any other diseases.

That’s not the part of this discussion I’m interested in. I want to see the study that shows vitamin supplementation cannot improve diet.
That’s the study I’m waiting for. Because numerous institutions say it can be used for that.
The FDA and Harvard University to name a couple.

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Posted: 09 January 2014 03:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 306 ]
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VYAZMA - 09 January 2014 03:45 PM
Mriana - 09 January 2014 03:38 PM

I know.  No one here said they cure or prevent cancer, any other disease, or YIKES! mortality.  oh oh  Nor are we talking about megadosing (overdosing, is what that really is).  Yet, he’s making it sound as though we are, even though we’ve both examined our “average diet”, though vegetarianism is not the average American diet of high fat, high sugar, meat, and potatoes.

Yes that’s my favorite part of that study…the “prevents mortality” part. Quality study no doubt…. wink

Maybe you and I are just trolling here Mriana.  Perhaps we should just let other people get in here who want to discuss
the dangers of overdosing on vitamins or talk about how vitamins can’t be used to prevent cancer, cure cancer or any other diseases.

LOL  I know.  I can’t imagine anything that would keep us from dying eventually, even if it were the 24th century and we were on a starship.  Although Kirk was lucky to have more resurrections than Jesus Christ.  The joys of Science Fiction… Why Gene Roddenberry created the iPad before Bill Gates and Co. did.  Even tri-quarters to assist drs were created by Gene, as well as nutrient filled food dispensed by food dispensers and if not deemed nutritious, you don’t get it- ie Deanna and her chocolate sundaes.  She ended up not getting one or going to see Guinan.

That’s not the part of this discussion I’m interested in. I want to see the study that shows vitamin supplementation cannot improve diet.
That’s the study I’m waiting for. Because numerous institutions say it can be used for that.
The FDA and Harvard University to name a couple.

I agree, as well as other such studies.  I also feel there’s been more misquoting, misinterpretation, bias, and even ignoring of some studies, beside what the two of us are talking about too.  Pointing to studies where people essentially overdose on vitamins is not what either of us are talking about.  An overdose of anything, even antibiotics is fatal (or at least potentially, esp without immediate medical attention for the OD).

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Posted: 09 January 2014 04:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 307 ]
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Mriana - 09 January 2014 03:56 PM

I agree, as well as other such studies.  I also feel there’s been more misquoting, misinterpretation, bias, and even ignoring of some studies, beside what the two of us are talking about too. Pointing to studies where people essentially overdose on vitamins is not what either of us are talking about.  An overdose of anything, even antibiotics is fatal (or at least potentially, esp without immediate medical attention for the OD).

It’s hilarious now. We have made our positions perfectly clear. 
When people get to calling another’s argument analogous to religion or “belief” I know they are cooked.

Anyways, like I said I’m not interested in these studies about vitamins because I don’t fall into any of those categories-not by any stretch.

I thought Spock’s device was a Tricorder”?  It’s “Triquarter”?  Hmnnn….all this time.
I watched that series about the Retro Star Trek. I forget it’s name. The one that is the prequel to Kirk.
I was really liking it. Until they went through that alternate universe with the Bad Enterprise and Crew. That’s when I stopped.
Up until that point I thought it was real good.  I like the episode where the Vulcans got stuck on Earth in the 40s or 50s…

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Posted: 09 January 2014 04:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 308 ]
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VYAZMA - 09 January 2014 04:06 PM

I thought Spock’s device was a Tricorder”?  It’s “Triquarter”?  Hmnnn….all this time.
I watched that series about the Retro Star Trek. I forget it’s name. The one that is the prequel to Kirk.
I was really liking it. Until they went through that alternate universe with the Bad Enterprise and Crew. That’s when I stopped.
Up until that point I thought it was real good.  I like the episode where the Vulcans got stuck on Earth in the 40s or 50s…

LOL  Sorry about that.  You’re right.  It’s a Tricorder.  Memory and all, you know.  I watched “The Cage” too, many years ago and many times over.  smile  Enterprise and the last two movies, IMO, are not Trek though.  I’ve been a Trekker since I was nursing on my mother’s lap in the ‘60s.

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Posted: 09 January 2014 04:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 309 ]
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Mriana - 09 January 2014 04:16 PM

LOL  Sorry about that.  You’re right.  It’s a Tricorder.  Memory and all, you know.  I watched “The Cage” too, many years ago and many times over.  smile  Enterprise and the last two movies, IMO, are not Trek though.  I’ve been a Trekker since I was nursing on my mother’s lap in the ‘60s.

Enterprise!  That’s it.  I thought it was good. I watched it on Netflix all the way up to the episode where they are flying around in an alternate Enterprise and crew. Just like that I couldn’t watch it anymore.
I tried the other ones, but I couldn’t get into them. Deep Space Nine etc…
I wanted to go with Next Gen, so I started from episode 1.  Ughhh. Awful. I have to give it another shot though because I’ve seen some real good later episodes of that.
That Jonathan Frakes. I hate his character. The Executive Officer. Acghhchhh…I can’t stand his character.
The Captain is cool.  Data is my favorite.

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Posted: 09 January 2014 08:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 310 ]
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VYAZMA - 09 January 2014 04:38 PM
Mriana - 09 January 2014 04:16 PM

LOL  Sorry about that.  You’re right.  It’s a Tricorder.  Memory and all, you know.  I watched “The Cage” too, many years ago and many times over.  smile  Enterprise and the last two movies, IMO, are not Trek though.  I’ve been a Trekker since I was nursing on my mother’s lap in the ‘60s.

Enterprise!  That’s it.  I thought it was good. I watched it on Netflix all the way up to the episode where they are flying around in an alternate Enterprise and crew. Just like that I couldn’t watch it anymore.
I tried the other ones, but I couldn’t get into them. Deep Space Nine etc…
I wanted to go with Next Gen, so I started from episode 1.  Ughhh. Awful. I have to give it another shot though because I’ve seen some real good later episodes of that.
That Jonathan Frakes. I hate his character. The Executive Officer. Acghhchhh…I can’t stand his character.
The Captain is cool.  Data is my favorite.

I like TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY, but Deanna and Janeway are my favourites.  We are so far off topic now.  red face

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Posted: 30 January 2014 07:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 311 ]
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Mariana and vyazma, you two can ignore this. I’m adding it to the thread for those who haven’t left reason in the rear view mirror.

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/antioxidant-supplements-worsen-lung-tumors-study-finds?dom=tw&src=SOC

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Posted: 31 January 2014 04:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 312 ]
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macgyver - 30 January 2014 07:57 PM

Mariana and vyazma, you two can ignore this. I’m adding it to the thread for those who haven’t left reason in the rear view mirror.

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/antioxidant-supplements-worsen-lung-tumors-study-finds?dom=tw&src=SOC

That’s interesting. I can see that.
Of course you have to develop cancer first. They don’t cause cancer.
But yeah, once you have a tumor it’s part of you, so feeding it supplements could make it flourish. Why not.
I’ve heard of this before.

I found it funny in the opening 1st or second paragraph about the reference that “supplements may not prevent cancer…”
Gosh, there must be tons of people who take vitamins to prevent cancer out there.  I can see that too. Wouldn’t surprise me.

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Posted: 31 January 2014 07:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 313 ]
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VYAZMA - 31 January 2014 04:31 AM

That’s interesting. I can see that.
Of course you have to develop cancer first. They don’t cause cancer.
But yeah, once you have a tumor it’s part of you, so feeding it supplements could make it flourish. Why not.
I’ve heard of this before.

I found it funny in the opening 1st or second paragraph about the reference that “supplements may not prevent cancer…”
Gosh, there must be tons of people who take vitamins to prevent cancer out there.  I can see that too. Wouldn’t surprise me.

Well here’s the rub. You have cancer. We all do. There are trillions of cells in your body and at any given time every single one of us has a cell or two somewhere in our body that has the genetic damage to become a tumor, The only reason we don’t is because our immune system is pretty good at identifying and destroying these cells. On a less microscopic level everyone who eventually develops detectable cancer probably had that tumor for years before it grew to a size that caused symptoms or showed up on a screening test.

Its important to understand that just because someone hasn’t been diagnosed with cancer doesn’t mean they are safe from the effects of antioxidants. We are all at risk.

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Posted: 31 January 2014 07:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 314 ]
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macgyver - 31 January 2014 07:02 AM

Well here’s the rub. You have cancer. We all do.

No, we don’t. I hear this all the time and it is simply not true. (And yes, I’ve heard this from a number of doctors as well.) A cell has to undergo through the process of undetected mutations enough times to start acting cancerous. Just because you may be missing a foot, it doesn’t mean you are missing a leg, or just because you suffer from cataracts, it doesn’t mean you are blind.

[ Edited: 31 January 2014 07:14 AM by George ]
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Posted: 31 January 2014 10:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 315 ]
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macgyver - 31 January 2014 07:02 AM
VYAZMA - 31 January 2014 04:31 AM

That’s interesting. I can see that.
Of course you have to develop cancer first. They don’t cause cancer.
But yeah, once you have a tumor it’s part of you, so feeding it supplements could make it flourish. Why not.
I’ve heard of this before.

I found it funny in the opening 1st or second paragraph about the reference that “supplements may not prevent cancer…”
Gosh, there must be tons of people who take vitamins to prevent cancer out there.  I can see that too. Wouldn’t surprise me.

Well here’s the rub. You have cancer. We all do. There are trillions of cells in your body and at any given time every single one of us has a cell or two somewhere in our body that has the genetic damage to become a tumor, The only reason we don’t is because our immune system is pretty good at identifying and destroying these cells. On a less microscopic level everyone who eventually develops detectable cancer probably had that tumor for years before it grew to a size that caused symptoms or showed up on a screening test.

Its important to understand that just because someone hasn’t been diagnosed with cancer doesn’t mean they are safe from the effects of antioxidants. We are all at risk.

My 24 year old son has the idea that we don’t need early detection screenings, because (he believes) that individuals discover something wrong with their bodies before any physical finds them and report these issues to their doctor and that’s when something like cancer is found, not by cancer screenings or alike.  I disagree with him and keep telling him that physicals are necessary for early detection of things like cancer.  I tried to point out to him that if we had the technology back when Gilda Radner was Dx with ovarian cancer, it might have been discovered earlier, before she had symptoms, and she might have lived longer, even survived, but he won’t believe me.  I think he lives by a dangerous philosophy about cancer and other like illnesses.  He has a belief, for example, that if one has lung cancer, their breath smells like a dead decaying body.  I don’t know rather to laugh or cry, concerning some of his ideas.

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