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Point of Inquiry, RIP
Posted: 20 February 2017 08:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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I know I’m coming in late with this, having pretty much ignored the issue the first time it aired.  I’ve never been to a convention, never met any of the principle players in this, never listened to a podcast.  I read the speech that Ron Lindsay gave and I have to confess I didn’t see anything terrible in it.  Nor did I see anything “ad hominem” about his reply.  It looked to me as if he was simply pointing out that Rebecca Watson had misrepresented (either innocently or deliberately) some of the things he had said.  It seemed to me that he was simply warning about certain strident “feminists” who seem to have the attitude that men don’t have anything to say about women’s issues.  I can vouch for that.  I used to think of myself as a feminist myself, I used to be a card-carrying member of NOW until I read an article by a prominent women’s issues writer who claimed that you had to have a vagina to be a feminist.  So I don’t know what to think anymore.

I do notice in my latest issue of Skeptical Inquirer that Ron Lindsay is still writing articles though, so evidently he has not been drawn and quartered.  That’s a relief!  ; - )

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Posted: 20 February 2017 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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I’d love to hear everyone’s definition of feminism. How about it?

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Posted: 20 February 2017 11:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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As far as I’m concerned feminism is simply treating women equally with men. Gender isn’t a qualifier for being a feminist, despite what some advocates say.

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Posted: 20 February 2017 08:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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It’s not a definition, but I like this Rebecca West quote.

People call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute.

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Posted: 21 February 2017 05:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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I like that. While a few prominent feminists were extremists back in the day, as Advocatus pointed out, the groundwork they laid has borne fruit. There is still a lot of work to be done, but we’re making some progress.

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Posted: 21 February 2017 06:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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DarronS - 21 February 2017 05:29 AM

I like that. While a few prominent feminists were extremists back in the day, as Advocatus pointed out, the groundwork they laid has borne fruit. There is still a lot of work to be done, but we’re making some progress.

Extreme discrimination requires extreme remedies.

Lois

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Posted: 22 February 2017 08:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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DarronS - 20 February 2017 11:17 AM

As far as I’m concerned feminism is simply treating women equally with men. Gender isn’t a qualifier for being a feminist, despite what some advocates say.

That’s what I always thought it was.

And speaking of those women who raised our consciousness, it’s funny how I watch old television shows on the nostalgia channels (like METV) and I see the blatant sexism all over the place and I think, “how can we have stood for that?  What were we thinking?”

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Posted: 22 February 2017 10:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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Well, we’ve certainly wandered off-topic, but this is has turned into an interesting discussion.

I’ve noticed the sexism in old shows and movies, too. If you think those are bad pay attention to the commercials. Seems not much has changed in that regard. Modern commercials are just as sexist as the old ones.

10 sexist commericals from the 1950s and 1960s

Then we moved forward. Seems not much has changed.

Sexist fast food ads

The more things change the more they remain the same.

Edit: fixed a typo

[ Edited: 22 February 2017 03:17 PM by DarronS ]
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Posted: 22 February 2017 01:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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DarronS - 22 February 2017 10:36 AM

Well, we’ve certainly wandered off-tope this is has turned into an interesting discussion.

I’ve noticed the sexism in old shows and movies, too. If you think those are bad pay attention to the commercials. Seems not much has changed in that regard. Modern commercials are just as sexist as the old ones.

10 sexist commericals from the 1950s and 1960s

Then we moved forward. Seems not much has changed.

Sexist fast food ads

The more things change the more they remain the same.

Sexism sells. Capitalists love it.

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Posted: 23 February 2017 07:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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Hmmm maybe what we need to define is “sexism”.  For the record, I don’t think that simply using a woman as a sex symbol is necessarily sexist.  After all, look around and you men being used as sex symbols, too.  What makes it sexist is when you imply that sex is ALL she is good for.  The most obvious example that springs to my mind is superheroes (and heroines).  They look sexy, and so some men, that’s all they are.  You’ll find plenty of porn out there about superheroines.  But to my mind the most appealing thing about somebody like, say the Black Widow, is how kick-ass she is, how tough she is.  That’s why I like her.  And the fact that she looks oh so nice in that black catsuit doesn’t hurt.

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Posted: 23 February 2017 08:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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The older commercials I linked don’t fit that definition of sexism, so what should we call it when they propagate cliches about women’s inability to drive, or show a husband berating his wife for making bad coffee? That is a form of sexism in my view. Perhaps you’re right about the newer commercials. I kinda had that thought in the back of my head when I was watching them. Showing Danica Patrick in a provocative outfit is racy, but is it sexism? That’s debatable. Complaining that commercials use beautiful women dressed suggestively could be cherry picking. As you said, they do the same with men.

[ Edited: 23 February 2017 08:38 AM by DarronS ]
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Posted: 24 February 2017 07:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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DarronS - 23 February 2017 08:35 AM

The older commercials I linked don’t fit that definition of sexism, so what should we call it when they propagate cliches about women’s inability to drive, or show a husband berating his wife for making bad coffee?

We call that stereotyping, and if it’s linked to a particular sex, sure it’s a form of sexism.

I liked reading some of the comments on your link.  It goes to show that there’s a subjective aspect to it.  I personally thought the “Charlie’s Angels” movies (with Cameron Diaz and Drew Barrymore) were sexist because the fighting stunts they had the actresses doing were so over-the-top ridiculous, it was as if they were satirizing the very idea of women heroes—as if they were implicitly saying, “Yeah, yeah, we all know that girls can’t really fight so we might as well have fun with it…”  I found that offensive personally.

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Posted: 24 February 2017 09:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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Advocatus - 24 February 2017 07:58 AM
DarronS - 23 February 2017 08:35 AM

The older commercials I linked don’t fit that definition of sexism, so what should we call it when they propagate cliches about women’s inability to drive, or show a husband berating his wife for making bad coffee?

We call that stereotyping…

Doh! Of course.

...and if it’s linked to a particular sex, sure it’s a form of sexism.

Yep.

I liked reading some of the comments on your link.  It goes to show that there’s a subjective aspect to it.  I personally thought the “Charlie’s Angels” movies (with Cameron Diaz and Drew Barrymore) were sexist because the fighting stunts they had the actresses doing were so over-the-top ridiculous, it was as if they were satirizing the very idea of women heroes—as if they were implicitly saying, “Yeah, yeah, we all know that girls can’t really fight so we might as well have fun with it…”  I found that offensive personally.

I need to go back and read those comments. Never bothered watching Charlie’s Angels TV show or the movie.

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Posted: 25 February 2017 08:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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See, that’s where we come back on topic!  Because sexism is sometimes subjective, one person can interpret an action or a comment as sexist while at the same time the person who made the comment sincerely didn’t mean it that way.

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Posted: 25 February 2017 08:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
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DarronS - 24 February 2017 09:30 AM
Advocatus - 24 February 2017 07:58 AM
DarronS - 23 February 2017 08:35 AM

The older commercials I linked don’t fit that definition of sexism, so what should we call it when they propagate cliches about women’s inability to drive, or show a husband berating his wife for making bad coffee?

We call that stereotyping…

Doh! Of course.

Another useful word is “sexploitation”—not necessarily sexist, but it can be depending on the context.  I can think of a lot of good movies which still have elements of sexploitation.

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