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Why other countries are not playing along with the US regarding Snowden.
Posted: 26 June 2013 03:49 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Posted: 26 June 2013 04:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Like I said elsewhere in actual sincerity: Let’s require all government representatives and major officials to have their lives recorded live everywhere they go for their terms in office. This would assure us the democratic accountability that is lacking and make them respect their beliefs to evade privacy rights for others.

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Posted: 26 June 2013 05:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Scott Mayers - 26 June 2013 04:45 PM

Like I said elsewhere in actual sincerity: Let’s require all government representatives and major officials to have their lives recorded live everywhere they go for their terms in office. This would assure us the democratic accountability that is lacking and make them respect their beliefs to evade privacy rights for others.

What kind of privacy do you really think you need to protect?
Most govt officials and reps do have their lives recorded everywhere they go while in office.
That’s why many of them get caught having affairs, smoking crack in bathrooms, embezzling money, taking favors.
That’s why they are on the news and TV all the time.  That’s why you know about their daughters graduations or their sons new braces.
Did you forget that they are looking for terrorists?  Did it ever occur to you that they might want to prevent another 9-11 type disaster?
Did you know that that is what govts do to protect their citizens?
What privacy do you really want to protect. Do you think anyone gives a crap what you do in your private time? Do you?

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Posted: 26 June 2013 05:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Despite commonly held beliefs, The Great Unfolding Of The Peace Quilt has been postponed indefinitely.
Are you paying attention to world affairs? Are you aware of what humans have been up to for the past 10,000 years?
When the curtain gets pulled aside and everyone sees the ugly mechanics of what’s been keeping them in Starbucks and Stain Resistant Carpet they suddenly recoil.
It’s obvious why other countries aren’t co-operating!  So what? Let ‘em have Snowden.  Who cares?
If we could get him back he would go right to prison.  That sounds logical to me.
I know Scott is a Canadian, but some of you Americans should take a second to see who you’re rooting for here.
Forget about all that other BS…it aint going that way. The nation-members of the planet do not all want to get together and hold hands.

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Posted: 26 June 2013 05:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Good thread to get going - It would be cool if it generates some conversation.

Here’s something from a General Discussion thread that’s worth copying over here (IMHO hmmm )

citizenschallenge.pm - 11 June 2013 11:11 PM

A friend shared this with me earlier and I was surprised not to find any reference to it around here - so allow me to kick-off the discussion. 
Yo Chris Mooney, Greenwald would make for one heck of an interview.


Edward Snowden: NSA PRISM Whistleblower
My name is Edward Snowden, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z99qFwsDmU
[ Published on Jun 9, 2013 |  LeakSourceNews |  06/09/2013

“Edward Snowden, the source behind the Guardian’s NSA files talks to Glenn Greenwald in Hong Kong about his motives for the biggest intelligence leak in a generation.”
~~~

Digital Blackwater: How the NSA Gives Private Contractors Control of the Surveillance State
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/6/11/digital_blackwater_how_the_nsa_gives

As the Justice Department prepares to file charges against Booz Allen Hamilton employee Edward Snowden for leaking classified documents about the National Security Agency, the role of private intelligence firms has entered the national spotlight. Despite being on the job as a contract worker inside the NSA’s Hawaii office for less than three months, Snowden claimed he had power to spy on almost anyone in the country. “I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant to a federal judge, to even the president, if I had a personal email,” Snowden told The Guardian newspaper. Over the past decade, the U.S. intelligence community has relied increasingly on the technical expertise of private firms such as Booz Allen, SAIC, the Boeing subsidiary Narus and Northrop Grumman. About 70 percent of the national intelligence budget is now spent on the private sector. Former NSA Director Michael V. Hayden has described these firms as a quote “digital Blackwater.” We speak to Tim Shorrock, author of the book “Spies for Hire: The Secret World of Outsourced Intelligence.”

~~~

Glenn Greenwald on How NSA Leaker Edward Snowden Helped Expose a “Massive Surveillance Apparatus”
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/6/10/glenn_greenwald_on_how_nsa_leaker

Speaking from Hong Kong where he broke the story of Edward Snowden outing himself as the NSA whistleblower, Guardian columnist Glenn Greenwald joins us to discuss Snowden’s actions and the multiple disclosures he’s revealed about government surveillance. “There is this massive surveillance apparatus being gradually constructed in the United States that already has extremely invasive capabilities to monitor and store the communications and other forms of behavior not just of tens of millions of Americans, but of hundreds of millions, probably billions of people, around the globe,” Greenwald says. “It’s one thing to say that we want the U.S. government to have these capabilities. It’s another thing to allow this to be assembled without any public knowledge, without any public debate, and with no real accountability. What ultimately drove [Snowden] forward — and what ultimately is driving our reporting — is the need for a light to be shined on what this incredibly consequential [surveillance] world is all about and the impact it’s having both on our country and our planet.”

~~~

“On a Slippery Slope to a Totalitarian State”: NSA Whistleblower Rejects Gov’t Defense of Spying
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/6/10/on_a_slippery_slope_to_a

As Director of National Intelligence James Clapper warns the recent leaks could “render great damage to our intelligence capabilities,” we speak to William Binney, a former top official at the National Security Agency, and Glenn Greenwald, the Guardian journalist who has broken the NSA spying stories. Binney spent almost 40 years at the agency but resigned after Sept. 11 over concerns about growing domestic surveillance. He spent time as director of the NSA’s World Geopolitical and Military Analysis Reporting Group and was a senior NSA crypto-mathematician largely responsible for automating the agency’s worldwide eavesdropping network. “The government is not trying to protect [secrets about NSA surveillance] from the terrorists,” Binney says. “It’s trying to protect knowledge of that program from the citizens of the United States.”

[ Edited: 26 June 2013 09:00 PM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 26 June 2013 06:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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VYAZMA - 26 June 2013 05:10 PM
Scott Mayers - 26 June 2013 04:45 PM

Like I said elsewhere in actual sincerity: Let’s require all government representatives and major officials to have their lives recorded live everywhere they go for their terms in office. This would assure us the democratic accountability that is lacking and make them respect their beliefs to evade privacy rights for others.

What kind of privacy do you really think you need to protect?
Most govt officials and reps do have their lives recorded everywhere they go while in office.
That’s why many of them get caught having affairs, smoking crack in bathrooms, embezzling money, taking favors.
That’s why they are on the news and TV all the time.  That’s why you know about their daughters graduations or their sons new braces.
Did you forget that they are looking for terrorists?  Did it ever occur to you that they might want to prevent another 9-11 type disaster?
Did you know that that is what govts do to protect their citizens?
What privacy do you really want to protect. Do you think anyone gives a crap what you do in your private time? Do you?

No, I don’t care what they do in the bathroom. I care about the private deals they make behind the American people’s backs. I care about the secret meetings where we get screwed without our consent, where the so-called “democratic process” gets circumvented. I care about the fact that our so called “representatives” can read all of our letters, see all of our emails, take all of our calls, yet still do the very opposite of what the people want, simply because the guy with the most money and direct-access asked him to. I care about the fact that legislation can be passed without the people being alerted about it.

I don’t care about the fact that Anthony Weiner wants to show random women his little dingy. I care about the fact that people in the same position as Weiner can easily, with very little impunity betray those who put them office in the first place.

I don’t want to see the guy taking a crap at home in his bathroom. What I want is full disclosure of every single deal that is made, every single donation (including full disclosure of the (donors), and every single deliberation prior to voting on the legislation.

And give me the freedom to remove a portion of the politician’s income and deposit it back into my bank account, every single time I feel that I have been deceived or misrepresented.

Forgive me for not being as trusting as you are, but when a group of people who claim to represent us takes trillions of our dollars and gives it to Wall Street criminals, Goldman Sachs, and Monsanto, it’s a bit difficult for me to adopt such a position. Call me crazy, but I tend to feel like our government and their corporate bosses are a bigger problem than this “ever-present threat” of terrorism that they keep trying to shove down our throats.

[ Edited: 26 June 2013 06:23 PM by Cloak ]
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- Bruce Lee -

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Posted: 26 June 2013 06:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Cloak-No, I don’t care what they do in the bathroom. I care about the private deals they make behind the American people’s backs. I care about the secret meetings where we get screwed without our consent, where the so-called “democratic process” gets circumvented. I care about the fact that our so called “representatives” can read all of our letters, see all of our emails, take all of our calls, yet still do the very opposite of what the people want, simply because the guy with the most money and direct-access asked him to. I care about the fact that legislation can be passed without the people being alerted about it.

I don’t care about the fact that Anthony Weiner wants to show random women his little dingy. I care about the fact that people in the same position as Weiner can easily, with very little impunity betray those who put them office in the first place.

I don’t want to see the guy taking a crap at home in his bathroom. What I want is full disclosure of every single deal that is made, every single donation (including full disclosure of the (donors), and every single deliberation prior to voting on the legislation.

And give me the freedom to remove a portion of the politician’s income and deposit it back into my bank account, every single time I feel that I have been deceived or misrepresented.

Forgive me for not being as trusting as you are, but when a group of people who claim to represent us takes trillions of our dollars and gives it to Wall Street criminals, Goldman Sachs, and Monsanto, it’s a bit difficult for me to adopt such a position. Call me crazy, but I tend to feel like our government and their corporate bosses are a bigger problem than this “ever-present threat” of terrorism that they keep trying to shove down our throats.

This is my third re-write for a response:
I understand your frustrations. The problem is the nation is divided.

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Posted: 26 June 2013 07:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Wait, did I miss a question of yours? What did I not respond to?

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Posted: 26 June 2013 08:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I’d think one reason that these countries are not helping is just that none of them have any respect for the U.S. at the moment due to Obama’s much softer foreign policy. No one sits up and pays attention when Obama speaks, it’s more just a, “Yeah, whatever…” attitude.

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Posted: 26 June 2013 08:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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LogicMan - 26 June 2013 08:25 PM

I’d think one reason that these countries are not helping is just that none of them have any respect for the U.S. at the moment due to Obama’s much softer foreign policy. No one sits up and pays attention when Obama speaks, it’s more just a, “Yeah, whatever…” attitude.

Sure that may be a part of it, but I think it’s a little more complicated than that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAXMFFyrIZo

[ Edited: 26 June 2013 09:38 PM by Cloak ]
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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee -

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Posted: 26 June 2013 10:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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VYAZMA - 26 June 2013 05:10 PM
Scott Mayers - 26 June 2013 04:45 PM

Like I said elsewhere in actual sincerity: Let’s require all government representatives and major officials to have their lives recorded live everywhere they go for their terms in office. This would assure us the democratic accountability that is lacking and make them respect their beliefs to evade privacy rights for others.

What kind of privacy do you really think you need to protect?
Most govt officials and reps do have their lives recorded everywhere they go while in office.
That’s why many of them get caught having affairs, smoking crack in bathrooms, embezzling money, taking favors.
That’s why they are on the news and TV all the time.  That’s why you know about their daughters graduations or their sons new braces.
Did you forget that they are looking for terrorists?  Did it ever occur to you that they might want to prevent another 9-11 type disaster?
Did you know that that is what govts do to protect their citizens?
What privacy do you really want to protect. Do you think anyone gives a crap what you do in your private time? Do you?

The kind of coverage you mentioned does not cover the behind the scenes activities of governments. Do you think I was unaware of the regular coverage? As to privacy issues for the general public, I’ve already suggested before that if all material of everyone becomes recorded and displayed for all to know, then maybe we will eventually have a society that becomes effectively immune to privacy concerns. My point was in regards to the accountability for those politicians to feel that it is alright for them to do it, regardless of their excuses for it, should require the same attention to them.

If privacy isn’t such a big concern in your mind, then use your real name like me! What are you trying to hide?

9/11 wasn’t such an ingenious plot that couldn’t be solved by simply locking the cockpit doors on all flights!!

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Posted: 26 June 2013 11:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Cloak - 26 June 2013 07:43 PM

Wait, did I miss a question of yours? What did I not respond to?

No I meant I tried writing 3 separate responses.  Didn’t like them…so I just kept it simple.

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Posted: 26 June 2013 11:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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VYAZMA - 26 June 2013 11:08 PM
Cloak - 26 June 2013 07:43 PM

Wait, did I miss a question of yours? What did I not respond to?

No I meant I tried writing 3 separate responses.  Didn’t like them…so I just kept it simple.

Oh I see. Well, friend, you are right. The nation IS divided. If we know that this is the chief issue, then why not try to unite on the issues on which mo0st of us have common ground?

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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee -

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Posted: 26 June 2013 11:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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LogicMan - 26 June 2013 08:25 PM

I’d think one reason that these countries are not helping is just that none of them have any respect for the U.S. at the moment due to Obama’s much softer foreign policy. No one sits up and pays attention when Obama speaks, it’s more just a, “Yeah, whatever…” attitude.

I have high respect for the American people and their influences. In many respects, I admire the U.S. more than any other. And I assure you that the rest of the world is more relieved than ever for Obama’s Presidency. It isn’t America that the world has a problem with. It is particular Americans like the Bush’s who pose the largest concern for everyone.

I should note that the whole rest of the world is more global conscious in the sense of limits that political borders pose and find America as part of their hearts and homes. It is the hypocrisy of those members of the U.S. who play unfairly to us all, including the American people that bothers them. The, “yeah, whatever” attitude is symbolic of the trust and lack of threat people feel towards Obama.

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Posted: 26 June 2013 11:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Scott-The kind of coverage you mentioned does not cover the behind the scenes activities of governments. Do you think I was unaware of the regular coverage? As to privacy issues for the general public, I’ve already suggested before that if all material of everyone becomes recorded and displayed for all to know, then maybe we will eventually have a society that becomes effectively immune to privacy concerns. My point was in regards to the accountability for those politicians to feel that it is alright for them to do it, regardless of their excuses for it, should require the same attention to them.

What about the behind the scenes activities? Yeah we know…it’s a dog and pony show!  So what?
The sooner you realize what “government” is, the better off you’ll be.
Stop watching the news and papers and blogs for a month. Then get back to me about the condition you’re in. Really! Try it!

If privacy isn’t such a big concern in your mind, then use your real name like me! What are you trying to hide?

How do I know that’s your real name? I’m not concerned about the government invading my privacy. Even if they are. I don’t care.

9/11 wasn’t such an ingenious plot that couldn’t be solved by simply locking the cockpit doors on all flights!!

I don’t know what to say to this.  The syntax is all wrong or something. Plans get hatched…sometimes they succeed.
Are you yet another 9-11 whacko on here?

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Posted: 26 June 2013 11:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Cloak - 26 June 2013 11:17 PM
VYAZMA - 26 June 2013 11:08 PM
Cloak - 26 June 2013 07:43 PM

Wait, did I miss a question of yours? What did I not respond to?

No I meant I tried writing 3 separate responses.  Didn’t like them…so I just kept it simple.

Oh I see. Well, friend, you are right. The nation IS divided. If we know that this is the chief issue, then why not try to unite on the issues on which mo0st of us have common ground?

That’s always my goal. One of the key issues is how politicians have successfully conned people for centuries into voting against their own good.
It’s a trade-off.  The US has always been good at this political hucksterism. 
We give you reactionary wedge issues, you get 20% less pay and benefits. It’s that simple! Start there.
That’s something everyone can agree on.  Everyone wants more pay and benefits.
Large portions of this country have their citizens brainwashed literally into thinking Labor Unions are a bad thing.
You start there…and you’ll see change. I guarantee it.
That’s the whole ball of wax.  People coming together for better treatment right where it counts…not in Congress, at your workplace.
Now throw in a slight uptick of Nationalism and away we go. The people take back the country. Not really take it back, but increase their investment
in it by a margin. That’s all it takes.
You think that sounds unrealistic?  It’s not.  That’s the way it used to be. Back when the banks only owned half the American Soul.  Now they own 98%.

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