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Why other countries are not playing along with the US regarding Snowden.
Posted: 27 June 2013 01:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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VYAZMA - 26 June 2013 11:23 PM

Scott-The kind of coverage you mentioned does not cover the behind the scenes activities of governments. Do you think I was unaware of the regular coverage? As to privacy issues for the general public, I’ve already suggested before that if all material of everyone becomes recorded and displayed for all to know, then maybe we will eventually have a society that becomes effectively immune to privacy concerns. My point was in regards to the accountability for those politicians to feel that it is alright for them to do it, regardless of their excuses for it, should require the same attention to them.

What about the behind the scenes activities? Yeah we know…it’s a dog and pony show!  So what?
The sooner you realize what “government” is, the better off you’ll be.
Stop watching the news and papers and blogs for a month. Then get back to me about the condition you’re in. Really! Try it!

If privacy isn’t such a big concern in your mind, then use your real name like me! What are you trying to hide?

How do I know that’s your real name? I’m not concerned about the government invading my privacy. Even if they are. I don’t care.

9/11 wasn’t such an ingenious plot that couldn’t be solved by simply locking the cockpit doors on all flights!!

I don’t know what to say to this.  The syntax is all wrong or something. Plans get hatched…sometimes they succeed.
Are you yet another 9-11 whacko on here?

Try arguing some position instead of just emoting declarative wisdom and commands without justification. I’m only getting the message, “shut up, you don’t know shit!” from you.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 10:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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LogicMan - 26 June 2013 08:25 PM

I’d think one reason that these countries are not helping is just that none of them have any respect for the U.S. at the moment due to Obama’s much softer foreign policy. No one sits up and pays attention when Obama speaks, it’s more just a, “Yeah, whatever…” attitude.

I think you have it exactly wrong. For decades Goliath has been calling the shots, acting as if He and only He was god’s gift to the rest of the world. And this was exemplified by Bush Jr. Now that Goliath is faltering, the rest aren’t as afraid as they used to be. Obama (and I’m no fan of his believe me) with the more “hey we’re just one amongst you, not above you” attitude is viewed MORE respectfully not less. Let’s put it this way…everyone else in the world finally realized John Wayne’s real name was Marion Mitchell Morrison. Not quite the same macho feel to it.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 10:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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I think it’s the joy we all have when we have one of those rare opportunities to throw the middle finger at the hypocritical, narcissistic, sociopathic bully that’s been terrorizing the rest of the class for years.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 11:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Scott-Try arguing some position instead of just emoting declarative wisdom and commands without justification. I’m only getting the message, “shut up, you don’t know shit!” from you.

You’re just ranting.  What was the 9-11 comment about? Reply.
I did argue a position…You, Cloak and Cuthbert just glossed over the most relevant position I made.
You didn’t reply to the most obvious and relevant point I made!!
Here, I’ll send it again…
Did you forget that they are trying to detect and prevent terrorist attacks?!?!
9-11 was 12 years ago.. That’s enough time for most of you warblers to get complacent and start complaining about other crap.
They’re looking for terrorists. 
Yes, not much changed when Obama got into office in those regards. What would you want him to do?
Let down his guard on his watch get attacked again and then really be lambasted. As if Obama doesn’t have enough opposition already.
Obama was handed this whole mess when he entered office.  What was he supposed to do?
“Oh, I’m Obama. The whole world knows I stand for peace, let’s just drop our guard and stop being vigilant against possible terrorist attacks.”
There was my best point!  They’re looking for terrorists threats!
No response from that….just some kooky comment about “cockpit doors”.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 12:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Scott Mayers - 26 June 2013 11:19 PM

I have high respect for the American people and their influences. In many respects, I admire the U.S. more than any other. And I assure you that the rest of the world is more relieved than ever for Obama’s Presidency. It isn’t America that the world has a problem with. It is particular Americans like the Bush’s who pose the largest concern for everyone.

To the Europeans perhaps. But the Bushes of the world aren’t the major cause for concern, it’s the Obamas who think that you can be soft with regards to the dangerous countries and then not expect chaos to break out.

I should note that the whole rest of the world is more global conscious in the sense of limits that political borders pose and find America as part of their hearts and homes. It is the hypocrisy of those members of the U.S. who play unfairly to us all, including the American people that bothers them. The, “yeah, whatever” attitude is symbolic of the trust and lack of threat people feel towards Obama.

Lack of threat, I agree, trust I don’t know if that’s the correct word. More like just plain lack of respect.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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VYAZMA - 27 June 2013 11:09 AM

I did argue a position…You, Cloak and Cuthbert just glossed over the most relevant position I made.
You didn’t reply to the most obvious and relevant point I made!!
Here, I’ll send it again…
Did you forget that they are trying to detect and prevent terrorist attacks?!?!

No, I haven’t forgotten what they’ve said. I’m just one of those who think that it’s grade “A” bullshit. History has clearly shown that, for more than half a decade, the most effective and efficient of all global terrorist groups hasn’t been dwelling overseas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsuhoVDm-Ag

Yes, Obama, thank you for saving me from those mean old 3 year olds and pregnant women who obviously posed a serious threat to me and my family. Please continue.


“Everyone’s worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there’s really an easy way: Stop participating in it.”

-Noam Chomsky-

Stop engaging in terrorism, and stop breeding new ones by randomly dropping bombs on innocent people, and then I’ll start taking them seriously.

What I think is really happening is that the US is keenly aware of what they are doing to their own country, and are concerned about domestic blowback from the locals, not just Muslim extremists. This is why US citizens are now able to be arrested, detained, and even assassinated with no due process, and why drones are now allowed on US soil. It’s why they go after whistleblowers and the journalists who work with them without anyone being able to do a thing about it. The Patriot Act and NDAA were merely the first few steps, and this illegal surveillance nonsense, something that people on both the left and the right have been trying to warn the public of for over a decade, is simply another step.

The framers didn’t just randomly decide that such activity is wrong because it just makes people “uncomfortable”. It’s much more serious than that. The reason that this stuff was supposed to be illegal is not simply because it’s an “invasion of privacy”. It is because it allows people to pre-emptively build a case for potential prosecution “just in case”, regardless of whether the “evidence” is really evidence at all. This is why it makes everyone a “potential terrorist”. And it allows government officials to bribe and strong-arm individuals because they have tons of private info on them. How hard would it be to threaten and shut up a public official by threatening to release their pornography records to the public?

Our country’s gradual move towards a police-state is not some hidden conspiracy that only a bunch of nuts entertain. More and more people are starting to see what is happening and it isn’t just those of the Alex Jones variety.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 12:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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CuthbertJ - 27 June 2013 10:11 AM

I think you have it exactly wrong. For decades Goliath has been calling the shots, acting as if He and only He was god’s gift to the rest of the world. And this was exemplified by Bush Jr. Now that Goliath is faltering, the rest aren’t as afraid as they used to be. Obama (and I’m no fan of his believe me) with the more “hey we’re just one amongst you, not above you” attitude is viewed MORE respectfully not less. Let’s put it this way…everyone else in the world finally realized John Wayne’s real name was Marion Mitchell Morrison. Not quite the same macho feel to it.

But the United States is not just “one amongst everyone else.” That isn’t to say it is above everyone else, but it is the United States that underwrites global trade and global security, and has done so since the end of World War II. And Europe has been plenty happy to let the U.S. bear the brunt of that burden militarily. Which is fine, but the United States is thus to a good degree the leader of the free world. I would not say that the United States is faltering right now anymore than anyone else is, it is just our current leadership. Obama could very much have an attitude of having a more multilateral rather than unilateral foreign policy, but still be seen as strong and respected. It’s not like either the United States can take the position of it being the boss and everyone else is supposed to follow or just being one amongst the other nations, it could very much be seen as the leader of the free nations, but yet still consult with those nations and try to seek consensus on issues. But instead right now, the U.S. under Obama is not respected by any of the countries like China, Russia, Iran, etc…those countries should have the attitude of, “What are the Americans saying about what we are doing?” as opposed to “Who cares what the Americans think about us.”

Bush came across too much as a cowboy unfortunately but Obama is too far to the opposite I think.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 02:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Cloak - 27 June 2013 12:50 PM
VYAZMA - 27 June 2013 11:09 AM

I did argue a position…You, Cloak and Cuthbert just glossed over the most relevant position I made.
You didn’t reply to the most obvious and relevant point I made!!
Here, I’ll send it again…
Did you forget that they are trying to detect and prevent terrorist attacks?!?!

No, I haven’t forgotten what they’ve said. I’m just one of those who think that it’s grade “A” bullshit. History has clearly shown that, for more than half a decade, the most effective and efficient of all global terrorist groups hasn’t been dwelling overseas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsuhoVDm-Ag

Yes, Obama, thank you for saving me from those mean old 3 year olds and pregnant women who obviously posed a serious threat to me and my family. Please continue.


“Everyone’s worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there’s really an easy way: Stop participating in it.”

-Noam Chomsky-

Stop engaging in terrorism, and stop breeding new ones by randomly dropping bombs on innocent people, and then I’ll start taking them seriously.

What I think is really happening is that the US is keenly aware of what they are doing to their own country, and are concerned about domestic blowback from the locals, not just Muslim extremists. This is why US citizens are now able to be arrested, detained, and even assassinated with no due process, and why drones are now allowed on US soil. It’s why they go after whistleblowers and the journalists who work with them without anyone being able to do a thing about it. The Patriot Act and NDAA were merely the first few steps, and this illegal surveillance nonsense, something that people on both the left and the right have been trying to warn the public of for over a decade, is simply another step.

The framers didn’t just randomly decide that such activity is wrong because it just makes people “uncomfortable”. It’s much more serious than that. The reason that this stuff was supposed to be illegal is not simply because it’s an “invasion of privacy”. It is because it allows people to pre-emptively build a case for potential prosecution “just in case”, regardless of whether the “evidence” is really evidence at all. This is why it makes everyone a “potential terrorist”. And it allows government officials to bribe and strong-arm individuals because they have tons of private info on them. How hard would it be to threaten and shut up a public official by threatening to release their pornography records to the public?

Our country’s gradual move towards a police-state is not some hidden conspiracy that only a bunch of nuts entertain. More and more people are starting to see what is happening and it isn’t just those of the Alex Jones variety.

I can’t have a discussion with you.  You are all over the road.  “The sky is falling the sky is falling!!”
Stop watching the news for 1 month. That includes, this politics forum, the internets, papers etc..Clear your mind.
You’re just spouting out alarmist horse crap. You say you want to unite people?  Is this how you want to unite people? Through fear?
That’s what the reactionaries do. Your falling right into their hands. Nobody is interested in your privacy or your social/political beliefs.
Get some idea of historical context, and seriously stop watching the media and news for one month.  I challenge you!  You’ll thank me.
I promise you.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 02:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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VYAZMA - 27 June 2013 02:06 PM
Cloak - 27 June 2013 12:50 PM
VYAZMA - 27 June 2013 11:09 AM

I did argue a position…You, Cloak and Cuthbert just glossed over the most relevant position I made.
You didn’t reply to the most obvious and relevant point I made!!
Here, I’ll send it again…
Did you forget that they are trying to detect and prevent terrorist attacks?!?!

No, I haven’t forgotten what they’ve said. I’m just one of those who think that it’s grade “A” bullshit. History has clearly shown that, for more than half a decade, the most effective and efficient of all global terrorist groups hasn’t been dwelling overseas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsuhoVDm-Ag

Yes, Obama, thank you for saving me from those mean old 3 year olds and pregnant women who obviously posed a serious threat to me and my family. Please continue.


“Everyone’s worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there’s really an easy way: Stop participating in it.”

-Noam Chomsky-

Stop engaging in terrorism, and stop breeding new ones by randomly dropping bombs on innocent people, and then I’ll start taking them seriously.

What I think is really happening is that the US is keenly aware of what they are doing to their own country, and are concerned about domestic blowback from the locals, not just Muslim extremists. This is why US citizens are now able to be arrested, detained, and even assassinated with no due process, and why drones are now allowed on US soil. It’s why they go after whistleblowers and the journalists who work with them without anyone being able to do a thing about it. The Patriot Act and NDAA were merely the first few steps, and this illegal surveillance nonsense, something that people on both the left and the right have been trying to warn the public of for over a decade, is simply another step.

The framers didn’t just randomly decide that such activity is wrong because it just makes people “uncomfortable”. It’s much more serious than that. The reason that this stuff was supposed to be illegal is not simply because it’s an “invasion of privacy”. It is because it allows people to pre-emptively build a case for potential prosecution “just in case”, regardless of whether the “evidence” is really evidence at all. This is why it makes everyone a “potential terrorist”. And it allows government officials to bribe and strong-arm individuals because they have tons of private info on them. How hard would it be to threaten and shut up a public official by threatening to release their pornography records to the public?

Our country’s gradual move towards a police-state is not some hidden conspiracy that only a bunch of nuts entertain. More and more people are starting to see what is happening and it isn’t just those of the Alex Jones variety.

I can’t have a discussion with you.  You are all over the road.  “The sky is falling the sky is falling!!”
Stop watching the news for 1 month. That includes, this politics forum, the internets, papers etc..Clear your mind.
You’re just spouting out alarmist horse crap. You say you want to unite people?  Is this how you want to unite people? Through fear?
That’s what the reactionaries do. Your falling right into their hands. Nobody is interested in your privacy or your social/political beliefs.
Get some idea of historical context, and seriously stop watching the media and news for one month.  I challenge you!  You’ll thank me.
I promise you.

“United through fear”? No. Fear is the reason why people like you can so easily be duped into believing rapid-fire bullshit like “We are doing it to protect you from those terrorists” regardless of the fact that the same people who are telling you this is chipping away your civil liberties, piece by piece, in order to “protect” you. I, on the other hand, am trying to unite people on the basis of facts and solidarity. I’m trying to get people to get collectively pissed off, and at the RIGHT people. You, and many other so-called “liberals”, on the other hand, are interested in nothing more than defending EVERY single damn thing that the Obama administration does, as long as the people you don’t like didn’t come up with the idea. This is why some people say that there is no such thing as a Democratic party anymore. There is just the Republicans vs the moderate Republicans (a.k.a. the castrated-Democratic party).

If denial of anything that bothers you allows you to sleep at night, have at it. Go back to sleep.

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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 02:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Cloak-“United through fear”? No. Fear is the reason why people like you can so easily be duped into believing rapid-fire bullshit like “We are doing it to protect you from those terrorists” regardless of the fact that the same people who are telling you this is chipping away your civil liberties, piece by piece, in order to “protect” you. I, on the other hand, am trying to unite people on the basis of facts and solidarity. I’m trying to get people to get collectively pissed off, and at the RIGHT people. You, and many other liberals, on the other hand, are interested in nothing more than defending EVERY single damn thing that the Obama administration does, as long as the people you don’t like didn’t come up with the idea. This is why some people say that there is no such thing as a Democratic party anymore. There is just the Republicans vs the moderate Republicans (a.k.a. the castrated-Democratic party).

If denial of anything that bothers you allows you to sleep at night, have at it. Go back to sleep.

OK.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 02:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Oh, I personally am not afraid of terrorists. So there is no fear there.  That’s from an odds point of view.
However I understand politics and political leaders who are sworn to protect the people. And I’m willing to go along with their techniques.
So far I haven’t noticed any infringements of my rights. Even when Bush and Cheney started this method of protection.
It has nothing to do with Obama. Obama is doing exactly what he and all his advisers and countless Congresspeople suggest and support.
You think Obama or any other president is going to risk dropping the ball on their watch and have another 3000 people get killed?

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Posted: 27 June 2013 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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VYAZMA - 27 June 2013 02:30 PM

Oh, I personally am not afraid of terrorists. So there is no fear there.  That’s from an odds point of view.
However I understand politics and political leaders who are sworn to protect the people. And I’m willing to go along with their techniques.
So far I haven’t noticed any infringements of my rights. Even when Bush and Cheney started this method of protection.
It has nothing to do with Obama. Obama is doing exactly what he and all his advisers and countless Congresspeople suggest and support.
You think Obama or any other president is going to risk dropping the ball on their watch and have another 3000 people get killed?

Ok.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 06:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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VYAZMA - 27 June 2013 11:09 AM

What was the 9-11 comment about? Reply.

What is unclear about my statement? I think that looking at your writing style, perhaps you learned to read a little different than others. There is nothing wrong with that. I think though that it may help to keep a grammar text and dictionary on hand to help understand how others are conventionally communicating.
To help clarify for you, what I was saying was that since the hi-jacking that occurred on 9/11 was fundamentally the cause of these men to take over the plane because of the doors that pilots have always conventionally been kept open (usually to invite kids up to the cockpit to meet them), all that was required to solve future terrorist incidents of the sort would be to have a policy to always keep the cockpit doors closed and locked in the future. This, I believe, was all that was necessary to fix the problem rather than the extreme measures that the governments went through for security. I am presuming that the government knew this but wanted to take advantage of the situation to take the measures that they’ve wanted to do before: create a Homeland Security division accountable directly to the President, exaggerated security measures imposed on private industries to be provisional to individual’s tracking data, and a cause for war.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 06:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Scott-This, I believe, was all that was necessary to fix the problem rather than the extreme measures that the governments went through for security. I am presuming that the government knew this but wanted to take advantage of the situation to take the measures that they’ve wanted to do before: create a Homeland Security division accountable directly to the President, exaggerated security measures imposed on private industries to be provisional to individual’s tracking data, and a cause for war.

You’re presuming the govt. knew this but wanted to take advantage of the situation to take measures that they’ve wanted to do before? etc etc…
Aren’t there other Forums specifically designed for the hysterically paranoid?
It’s not even your Government…so what do you care? Why don’t you worry about your own govt.?
Campaign up there to further disconnect yourself from our security apparatus.
So they left the cockpit doors unlocked hoping they would get hijacked so then we could go to war?
Like I said earlier to you…take a break.  Take a vacation.  Quit immersing yourself in all these blogs and paranoid conspiracy forums.

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Posted: 27 June 2013 07:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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VYAZMA - 27 June 2013 06:14 PM

Scott-This, I believe, was all that was necessary to fix the problem rather than the extreme measures that the governments went through for security. I am presuming that the government knew this but wanted to take advantage of the situation to take the measures that they’ve wanted to do before: create a Homeland Security division accountable directly to the President, exaggerated security measures imposed on private industries to be provisional to individual’s tracking data, and a cause for war.

You’re presuming the govt. knew this but wanted to take advantage of the situation to take measures that they’ve wanted to do before? etc etc…
Aren’t there other Forums specifically designed for the hysterically paranoid?
It’s not even your Government…so what do you care? Why don’t you worry about your own govt.?
Campaign up there to further disconnect yourself from our security apparatus.
So they left the cockpit doors unlocked hoping they would get hijacked so then we could go to war?
Like I said earlier to you…take a break.  Take a vacation.  Quit immersing yourself in all these blogs and paranoid conspiracy forums.

I haven’t actually invested much time in checking out conspiracy theories and nor have I read any blogs to this regard. I have my own mind and ability to view the regular media with a careful eye. But I’m not certain where you get the idea that what I have said has even anything to do with conspiracy theories in the first place. If you are considering any person who believes that some group of individuals has done wrong is to be considered non-worthy of attention you are senseless. Any group, technically who has a view differently than others and attempts to apply their philosophy is a conspiracy. So your use of the term to accuse me of it is just abusive nonsense.

Your faith in your Bush administration does not represent all Americans. And your presumption that I have no reason to complain because I am not American isn’t founded. As your government has any involvement external to your borders, it is all of the world to be relevantly concerned and involved. I’d advise you to take a vacation yourself, say, ...Iraq, for instance. You’re bullying and ignorant. Grow up.

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