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Fast Food Employees on Strike
Posted: 08 August 2013 02:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 121 ]
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mid,
I didn’t think anyone took anything to heart as we are always missing something from other people’s perspective without purposeful neglect—at least for most of us, I think. We are probably all associating the social/political/economic ideas of reality with pure science. At least we are hopelessly wishing that certainty in these areas can actually materialize. I don’t think, as yet, that a solution can be certified scientifically for social studies. The most we can hope for in our present and future situations is to just continue playing the game until we find some means to satisfy some way to assure absolutely everyone is treated fairly in the game of life. For now, we have to accept all various social ideologies as necessarily incomplete.

And yeah, it was legal to hire underage people. It was perceived by that provinces government at the time as similar to what some have mentioned that those jobs were transitional. Another interesting experiment that happened here in Saskatchewan a little after that time was that a law was proposed and actually passed to assure that all babysitters be considered official job positions that required parents to pay the minimum wage. It was only overthrown due to the public outcry from parents. I kind of find it weird that both parents go out to work to expect a good wage while leaving their most prized ‘possessions’ (their children) to have workers who should be expected to accept a much less worthy income. Isn’t that kind of like slavery? Or is it just another ‘first’ job that one should accept without complaining? I don’t know.

mike,

We lost or never really had such traditional cafe’s as you had there, in the States. I loved going across to Seattle just to experience those local venues in rebuilt train cars. Here in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, we are getting the brunt of the major business or economic experiments of all of North America. We are a test market because we are between a town and a city (half a million) and big business has virtually robbed all of our smaller outlets in certain economic areas. Recently, Loblaws announced that they purchased Shopper’s Drug Mart, both of which had since stolen the total market in most areas. (There are no more private drug stores that I’m aware of and only the odd corner store scattered around here and there.)

This take-over is so extraordinarily bad for us, and most people here don’t complain, which is frustrating. They just live with it and think that since there are no media outbursts with these things, that the majority of people are accepting of these changes. It is virtually illegal to smoke here now as the last laws a year or so ago banned tobacco product from being sold through drug stores, and get this, through any building that is connected or associated with a drugstore within it. It automatically made all malls unable to sell tobacco products. On top of that, we dropped all rental protections we recently had before to allow landlords to charge any rate without limit. It has cause our rents to skyrocket to unbelievable proportions. From an average of $400/mth rental of a two bedroom suite in the 90s to $1200, average minimum with exception (though not much) of a small unfavorable location in the city. (The birth of the ghetto, here) Because of these absolute abandonment of legal protection for renters, and due to the fact that owners want to preserve the nature of their places in mint condition as you came into it (I guess they don’t think depreciation is a natural phenomena), it is also virtually illegal to smoke, or even have allowance for certain natural behaviors that they themselves get to enjoy (like partying or whatever.)

Then to top it off, the federal government (conservative) decided to open our borders with extremely added incentives to encourage the rest of the world to come here fast! Within only a few summer months last year, we increased our population to and extra 40,000 people!! That added to our lack of housing and encouraged the rents to go up that much further. It is absolutely impossible for someone living on a minimum wage here to actually even expect to live alone. It is just as bad for someone making an average $30, 000/yr who requires at least a two bedroom dwelling. $1200x12 = $14,400/yr on rent alone!

In regards to the big stores, since they have gone over to electronic tagging with capacity of instant price changing, there is no such thing as predicting the price of anything anymore with a specific number. Coffee, for example, ranges between $6.00/(av. 900g) to $15.00 just for the No Name or generic versions by the minute or the hour. And the fact that they also have those apparent benefit cards for every store now, there clear function is to collect data to know what who buys and when. This is an absolutely ridiculous unnatural advantage that the corporations have over us now. And now, supply and demand is totally ineffective because the weight of advantage necessarily far outweighs any individual possibility to make a rational competitive decision. The have now limited products that are both sufficiently available and in high demand. Continuing with the coffee example, they’ve limited the most favored No Name brand of coffee from variations in strength to only ‘medium’ right across the city. And once they officially take over those drugstores that are mostly next-door to their very own grocery outlets, this will make what little competition that existed between the stores be lost. And with those benefit cards which lost all sensible return values since their inceptions, they also inadvertently have an indirect access to all people’s prescription information as these things are automatically added to your membership cards as points. Even if they legally are not allowed to directly access this, all it takes is comparing receipt times that are recorded automatically to the matching times those points are added to one’s membership card.

If anybody dares say now that the free market system is still fair and viable, at least here it is not anymore. Like those trading corporations that build their computer access and program centers next door to the NYSE, they have an absolute certainty of profit permanently by merely technology alone. Can you imagine how that guaranteed source of income would come in handy for governments should they make them mandatorily owned by the State? See my comment at the Toronto Star.

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Posted: 08 August 2013 10:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 122 ]
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After sitting here for some time typing out and lining up the references and sources regarding the fast food industry for my next posts (to “satisfy” Vyazma’s demands in particular), I finally realized that this is something that is going to go on and on regardless of what I say. I honestly don’t have the time or energy to go back and forth on this over and over again, so I’m going to go ahead and stop participating at this point. I sincerely apologize, but present responsibilities are starting to weigh heavy again.

I think that the key issue is that we have people here with two strongly competing ideologies about which direction this country needs to go and which direction could further destroy it. Biases are very strong on both sides, which is going to keep this from getting anywhere. It’s still important to understand, though, that while we may disagree on the best way to fix our issues, it doesn’t automatically mean that either of us care any less about those who are suffering most severely from it’s problems. We just differ on how to help.

If I’ve offended any of you here, I’m sorry, as nothing that I’ve stated was intended to do so.

Regarding public education, as a parent of two, I am quite passionate about the state of our public education system. For those who are concerned about where I get my ideas from, please feel free to check out this 2012 study by TNTP (The New Teacher’s Project), which illustrates the dilemma.

Or you could check out this essay.

Or this research paper here.

Or you can check out some of the research on teachers unions done by the Heritage Foundation. Here’s one. Some of you may already be disgusted by the mere mention of this group, considering that they are comprised of mostly conservatives (I’m not a conservative), but I still find a lot of their research on the issue valuable for consideration.

Of course, you don’t have to buy any of this. In fact, you may find some counter-research/studies. That’s fine. But at least understand that I don’t just come up with this stuff out of thin air. I don’t think that teacher’s unions overreach is the only thing that has contributed to the problems with our public education system, but I do think that its a factor worth considering.

I hold a deep respect for unions and the great things they’ve accomplished for the rest of this country. I have benefitted from their work in many ways. However, I don’t see them as perfect, and I’d like to caution those of you who might be tempted to.

Take care.

[ Edited: 08 August 2013 10:26 AM by Cloak ]
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Posted: 08 August 2013 12:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 123 ]
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Hey Cloak, That was a great discussion for me.  It made me think hard and, I hope, took some of the jerk out of my usual knee jerk opinions.  Thanks.

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Posted: 08 August 2013 01:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 124 ]
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Jeciron - 08 August 2013 12:44 PM

Hey Cloak, That was a great discussion for me.  It made me think hard and, I hope, took some of the jerk out of my usual knee jerk opinions.  Thanks.

Likewise. Thank you.

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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

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Posted: 09 August 2013 11:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 125 ]
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I looked at the “Executive Points” of the one study regarding retention.  Seriously? Retention is not usually a problem associated with unionized shops.
So what’s making those teachers quit?  The “study” cited inner-city schools.  That’s code for poverty.
Teachers are having to spend more time feeding and clothing children at school than they are teaching them in many instances.
See the Buffalo Teacher’s Union.  They have started a small info campaign to shed light on this. They have remained “neutral”, but their message is obvious.
There needs to be better allocation of time in school for breakfast.  The BTU didn’t institute the policy of breakfast!

The one other study I perused about 8-10 pages deep until I found it lacking any serious content.  If you still want to take part Cloak, please cite any pertinent points from that or other studies.
One of my favorite lines from the Moore & Moe authors, and I paraphrase:  The purpose of a teachers union is to look after the welfare of the teachers not the students.
-No!!  Really?  Shocking! 
Yes, that’s exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Then there was alot of incite into how their unions are political etc etc.
So what?
The last study I perused I found equally hackneyed and rhetorical.  But I may have missed something.  If Cloak or anyone else wants to point out specifics from those studies feel free.
And let me also stress….this thread was about FFWs unionizing.  I am not an expert on education, teachers or students.  Nor is my specialty about public sector unions. My main goals are the unionization of private companies.
So lets’ not stray too far afield here.
I’m still looking for people to tell me how unions destroy companies.
I’ll give you a hint….How about Hostess!! Twinkies are coming back.  Tens of thousands of unionized bakers, and delivery people are not coming back!
There’s proof right there!  The union destroyed Hostess and Wonder Bread.  They filed bankruptcy and sold out and restructured and voila! 
No more union.  (That’s sarcasm by the way.)

[ Edited: 09 August 2013 12:56 PM by VYAZMA ]
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Posted: 09 August 2013 02:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 126 ]
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Vyazma,

I’m still looking for people to tell me how unions destroy companies.

Unions change the management structure of companies.

Companies hire managers to hire and fire and kept the company running smoothly.

Unions take that power from the managers and move it to a grievance procedure that involves a vase amount of paperwork, lawyers an time. It can require workers giving testimony against other workers and create an unproductive work atmosphere. While this process is taking place the company is at risk of sabotage by disgruntled employees that could put the company out of business.

Example, look at the navy, this guy is unhappy at work, starts two fires to be able to go home. One fire alone cost taxpayers over $500,000,000.00. The navy labor rules are a lot like the union rules. Now the question remains, we have not seen these type of work related sabotage in the private shipyards.

Next, look at food safety, other than the peanut butter recall, almost all recalls from food caused by the processing stage are from union shops. 

Should we get rid of unions?

No of course not, they are the voice and some times the only power that the poor working man has. And many lives were lost in getting the unions the power they have today.

A union is no better than its management. Each union can be different. Just as unions can be good, unions can be bad for the workers too. 

One of my favorite lines from the Moore & Moe authors, and I paraphrase:  The purpose of a teachers union is to look after the welfare of the teachers not the students.
-No!!  Really?  Shocking!

I had the head of the largest school district in America asking me to help him with his union problems. He claimed the school district spent half the time in lawsuits filed by the teachers and the other half in lawsuits filed by the parents of students.

My research showed me that the Teachers Union was to strong in money, size, political power and law firms to ever fix any of the problems.

A couple of thoughts.

Russia was what I considered a large labor union.

Many people think unions are about labor management.
If this was true then union could buy or start up companies and put all the non-union companies out of business. But there are no large union owned and operated companies that I know of. Why is that? There are a few employee owned companies, but just a few.

Look at companies that have great management structure and good track records with employees. Companies like Lincoln Electric or Baker Hughes and you will find that workers have the ability to rise to the top of the company by hard work and skills, which is not part of the union system.

Companies use to keep the management non-union. The IRS case that is in the news today shows that the government allowed the top management to be part of the union, Lois Lerner is sitting at home drawing a big fat paycheck.

In a way you could say that the IRS is a union run company. And it can operate in this manner because it has no competition and a endless supply of money. So what failed in Russia as a management system is embraced as a management method by our government today.

Myself, I am for union and against unions, all depends on the facts involved.

As far as the fast food unionizing, yes, that is a good idea. Because the government screwed the people on keeping the minimum wage up with inflation. Inflation is good for the government and the rich and bad for the poor working people. One system the people have to balance the governing system is to form unions and strike. But this will have to be done in trades that can not be sent off shore. And let’s hope it is done by a good union that has the workers best interest at heart.

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Posted: 10 August 2013 01:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 127 ]
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MikeYohe - 09 August 2013 02:38 PM


Unions change the management structure of companies.

I’ve never seen any management structure differences.  Management is management.  It differs from company to company regardless of whether there is a union or not.  Managers tell the workers what to do, and the workers do it. Union or no union.
Employees sometimes are able to input how a company could be better run or how management could do better-union or no union.

Companies hire managers to hire and fire and kept the company running smoothly.

Yeah. Managers main job in any situation should be to know the job at least as well as the median employee and be able to execute decisions that steer the process efficiently and profitably.
As for firing…that shouldn’t, and hopefully doesn’t have to happen too often.  I would put firing pretty low on the list of managerial duties. Any shop, union or non-union, has a workforce that went through possible training and probationary period. After that, the workers should be able to execute all managerial directives reasonably well enough. They should know their jobs and do them reasonably well.
After that, what does a person get fired for?  Theft, sure!  Assault-sure! An abject, chronic dereliction of duty-sure. Union or non-union!
What else do you want to fire a guy for?  Mild tardiness?  Hell no!  Trying to organize a union?

Unions take that power from the managers and move it to a grievance procedure that involves a vase amount of paperwork, lawyers an time.

Sometimes.  Often grievances are settled quite easily on the front lines so to speak. Sometimes they aren’t.  What if the employee has a legitimate grievance Mike?
The union gives him the power to address this. A legitimate grievance!


It can require workers giving testimony against other workers and create an unproductive work atmosphere.

This can’t happen in a non-union shop?  I would say it’s more likely frankly.

While this process is taking place the company is at risk of sabotage by disgruntled employees that could put the company out of business.

That’s ridiculous.  In any case sabotage happens in non-union shops too.

Example, look at the navy, this guy is unhappy at work, starts two fires to be able to go home. One fire alone cost taxpayers over $500,000,000.00. The navy labor rules are a lot like the union rules. Now the question remains, we have not seen these type of work related sabotage in the private shipyards.

You can’t expect me to take this seriously do you?

Next, look at food safety, other than the peanut butter recall, almost all recalls from food caused by the processing stage are from union shops. 

Hmnn, didn’t know that. I don’t believe it either. It makes no sense. No sense at all. Most food recalls I see are coming from food that is processed overseas or in Mexico. Chinese baby food and Mexican vegetables.

No of course not, they are the voice and some times the only power that the poor working man has. And many lives were lost in getting the unions the power they have today.

Many more lives are being lost dismantling all that power the unions once fought for and had. Unions have very little power today. I’m talking private sector unions.

A union is no better than its management. Each union can be different. Just as unions can be good, unions can be bad for the workers too. 

Each union is different. I agree that Unions are no better or worse than management. Hostess didn’t go down because of the union. It went down due to poor upper level management for years.
Unions just represent the workers. The workers do what management says to do. That includes teachers. Unions are going to try and bargain for the best deal they can get. Rightly so!  But nobody puts a gun to anybody’s head. It’s an agreed upon contract.(and they get crappier and crappier every day!)
There’s absolutely nothing in my contract that says I can disobey my management.  In fact it says I can be disciplined for it.

I had the head of the largest school district in America asking me to help him with his union problems. He claimed the school district spent half the time in lawsuits filed by the teachers and the other half in lawsuits filed by the parents of students.

Education is a very, very touchy subject.  There are alot of problems in this field that have nothing to do with labor, or management. It is a multi-faceted
problem.
I would say that I believe wholeheartedly that teachers unions would never want policies or practices that prevented them from teaching or putting their degrees to good use. It’s not in any unions best interest to campaign for policies that would threaten job security.  Ever!
Unions most always take an active roll in promoting the work and excelling at it. Almost always. The problems come from bad policy or management.

My research showed me that the Teachers Union was to strong in money, size, political power and law firms to ever fix any of the problems.

Again, fix what problems? The ability to deal with bad teachers? What percentage do you really think that is in the “problem pie graph”?

Russia was what I considered a large labor union.

Does that include the Gulag system?

Many people think unions are about labor management.

Unions are about collectively bringing the employees together to get a better deal.

If this was true then union could buy or start up companies and put all the non-union companies out of business.

I’m sure that was tried somewhere. I’m just guessing. Lot’s of union and non-union companies have profit sharing.
In any case if the Union bought up companies and ran them then you would need a new union.  The old union wouldn’t suffice anymore.  It would be beholden to the bottom line.(profit)
And unions aren’t run by Business people or entrepreneurs who have that knack.  That’s why there are business men and women. That’s what they do.

But there are no large union owned and operated companies that I know of. Why is that? There are a few employee owned companies, but just a few.

See what I just typed above.  That’s like asking why there are no Franciscan Monks getting in the porno business. A union is a business.  It’s business is taking care of employees collectively.  That’s its business!  Car Companies make cars, Unions make a better workplace.
A union is a business. It has presidents and treasurers and budgets and plans and meetings and employees etc etc.

Look at companies that have great management structure and good track records with employees. Companies like Lincoln Electric or Baker Hughes and you will find that workers have the ability to rise to the top of the company by hard work and skills, which is not part of the union system.

It can be.  I work with managers who were once Teamsters.  Lot’s of ‘em.  Some went way up in the company. Same with GM. Same with Teachers. Same with everything.
There is no Union System. Workers can have a job at the shop and be happy or they can try their hand at something else. Lot’s of people do it.

Companies use to keep the management non-union. The IRS case that is in the news today shows that the government allowed the top management to be part of the union, Lois Lerner is sitting at home drawing a big fat paycheck.

I don’t follow any of this stuff.  It doesn’t interest me. I’m sure she would be collecting a big fat paycheck regardless.
I certainly don’t care about unions for high level management or any management for that matter. I care about the working class.

In a way you could say that the IRS is a union run company. And it can operate in this manner because it has no competition and a endless supply of money. So what failed in Russia as a management system is embraced as a management method by our government today.

This is off-track. And I wish it didn’t skew your ideas about what unions are for. I’m for the working class.

Myself, I am for union and against unions, all depends on the facts involved.

I think you are.  You raise good points.  You seem to understand the history of the working class. And you seem to understand the imbalance of wages-whether it is caused by inflation or the value of real dollar wages and their depreciation through time.. I’m glad you see that.  That’s all I care about.

As far as the fast food unionizing, yes, that is a good idea. Because the government screwed the people on keeping the minimum wage up with inflation. Inflation is good for the government and the rich and bad for the poor working people. One system the people have to balance the governing system is to form unions and strike. But this will have to be done in trades that can not be sent off shore. And let’s hope it is done by a good union that has the workers best interest at heart.

Amen Brother! Amen!

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Posted: 10 August 2013 01:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 128 ]
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I’ve never seen any management structure differences.

Please give me an idea of what types of unions you are falmilure with.


Management is management.  It differs from company to company regardless of whether there is a union or not.

Please explain what types of union/company agreements that the unions you are talking about that do not include agreed upon management enforcement of the labor agreement.

Please explain the unions that do not have a grievance process and what would be the job of the union representative and how does the firing of an employee take place.

As for firing…that shouldn’t, and hopefully doesn’t have to happen too often.

In business like hotel/motel and the food industry are known for extremely high rates of employee firings.

After that, what does a person get fired for?

Today a lot of companies do drug testing on an on going basis. Do you know that in the food industry most business do not. Do you know why?

Sometimes.  Often grievances are settled quite easily on the front lines so to speak. Sometimes they aren’t.  What if the employee has a legitimate grievance Mike?
The union gives him the power to address this. A legitimate grievance!

I would say that less than 1% of the grievances have a real problem that needs fixed behind them. The grievances are what create the power for the union representative. I have seen the Union save up a couple thousand grievances, some over a year old to use at upcoming union contract negotiations with the company.

I have seen one employee write as many as twenty-five grievances in one eight hour shift.

I have seen whole crews write grievances against a boss or manager in one shift.

These are federal paperwork that can not be ignored.

I have seen small business that has never even had one grievance.

That’s ridiculous.  In any case sabotage happens in non-union shops too.

Yes it can, and the insurance industry keeps track and knows how much sabotage is done by who and where. It is their money at risk.

You can’t expect me to take this seriously do you?

This case will be a highly studied case for years to come. I do not know if you have the ability to see the serious facts in this case.

The news stated $400M to $450M in repairs was needed, the navy asked for $600M for the repairs and other related costs. The Navy said because of cut backs they were scraping the USS Miami.

The guy got 17 yrs in jail, it was work related.

Most food recalls I see are coming from food that is processed overseas or in Mexico. Chinese baby food and Mexican vegetables.

Please get back on subject, that is one of the main problems with unions, guys like you that can never stay on the subject and somehow becomes a union representatives and nothing can ever get agreed upon. They end up wasting a lot of the companies and workers time. The subject matter here is very simple and widely used and known. The biggest issues today with unions is drug testing and not pay levels.

Many more lives are being lost dismantling all that power the unions once fought for and had. Unions have very little power today. I’m talking private sector unions.

When America had the War of Independence there were no employee laws any more. The laws of England could not be used here anymore.
Most of the union lives were lost in the 1800’s and some in the early 1900’s after the country grew and needed employee laws. Today a lot of what the unions fought for is now state and federal employee and labor laws. They became federal laws do to the fear of the spreading of Communism in the 1920’s. Unions were considered a form of Communism. Mexico became Communist and the United States feared that the Communist party, which was a workers party, would grow in the United States. To stop the growth of the Communist Party the government implemented many of the Communist Party’s labor demands and therefore got rid of the need for the Party.

America made much of Europe do the same thing after WWI and WWII to stop the spread of Communism. 

The workers do what management says to do. That includes teachers. Unions are going to try and bargain for the best deal they can get. Rightly so!  But nobody puts a gun to anybody’s head. It’s an agreed upon contract. (and they get crappier and crappier every day!)
There’s absolutely nothing in my contract that says I can disobey my management.  In fact it says I can be disciplined for it.

Unions as I have said can be bad for the workers or good for the workers. There are even unions that are bad for both the workers and the company. But they are good for the attorneys running the union. Unions create more laws and regulations that the workers must follow. You can easily tell these situations because the workers and company look at the other as the enemy.

Teacher unions are in a world by themselves. It has become separate industry sort of to speak with vast political power. Fast food would be kindergarten and Teachers would be the PhD’s in the union world.   

The stronger the union the more rules and regulations the employee have to work under.

The more rules and regulations that are written, the more doors are open for new rules and regulations. It becomes a paradox in contract writing.

I would say that I believe wholeheartedly that teachers unions would never want policies or practices that prevented them from teaching or putting their degrees to good use. It’s not in any unions best interest to campaign for policies that would threaten job security.  Ever!
Unions most always take an active roll in promoting the work and excelling at it. Almost always. The problems come from bad policy or management.

We are off subject of the food union, but that’s OK.

Vyazma,
I understand what you are saying. But I would like you to stand back with me for a moment and answer a couple of very simple questions.

Are schools and teachers really looking for what is best for the students?

The answer is no.

Reason.

The task is to teach basic math and the ability to read and write and then maybe some history and science.

So can you tell me why we are not teaching a base 10 measurement systems for all mathematics?

Can you tell me why we are not using the phonic alphabet?

The phonic alphabet alone would reduce schooling by one year and totally eliminate illiteracy in America.

It would make the job of teaching much easier and more fun for the teachers.

The American school system needs to come out of the dark ages and the teachers today have the political power to get a phonic alphabet for America.

When you see the teachers fighting for items like the phonic alphabet then the American people will see the teachers wanting to teach and not as a bunch of over paid whiners.

Again, fix what problems? The ability to deal with bad teachers? What percentage do you really think that is in the “problem pie graph”?

Maybe I was not clear. The head of the school district wanted to work on education. But could not due to the number of lawsuits he had to deal with. The one big changes he did was to have the school district hire its own attorneys.

Does that include the Gulag system?

I was not researching Russia for a union project. And I have no option on the Gulag system. Just an over all personal view point.

My research subject matter was “labor laws”, “NSA Bankers”, “Harry D. White” and the
“Communist Movement in America”. The goal was to fully understand the NSA Bankers and how they grew to be involved with most large news media, motion picture and on the board of directors of the largest American companies.

Notes on the research,
At the time the CIA’s website claimed Harry White was Russia’s top spy in America and the most successful spy in our history.
What my research showed was that Harry White was most likely a great American hero that happened to be fighting for the poor working man by pushing for the establishment of the Communist Party in America. Harry was one person away from the President but it is obvious that he worked directly under the President’s orders.
When Harry was to testify how the money printing plates left American and was put in the hands of the West Germans that printed billions of dollars with them. Harry died. I still think he was killed by our government. The President had died and there was no one to protect Harry from the Capitalist system. 

Since then the CIA has taken Harry off the website as the top spy and is down playing his involvement. There have been a couple of new books out that are claiming Harry was not a spy. I have not yet found the time to read them. But I am planning on reading them. 

And unions aren’t run by Business people or entrepreneurs who have that knack.  That’s why there are business men and women. That’s what they do.

There are a couple of federal laws that would have to be worked out with a union taking over and running a company.
But if the profit of the company was mostly being taken by the top management then eliminating the greedy company executives should make it easy for the unions to run a company and be profitable. But that has not been shown to be the case.

It can be.  I work with managers who were once Teamsters.  Lot’s of ‘em.  Some went way up in the company. Same with GM. Same with Teachers. Same with everything.
There is no Union System. Workers can have a job at the shop and be happy or they can try their hand at something else. Lot’s of people do it.

I worked as a Teamsters and yes you can move up by changing job classifications but you do not get noticed for hard work in the classification that you are working in like in a non union shop. You basally have to wait for a higher classification opening.

Mike

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Posted: 10 August 2013 01:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 129 ]
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I’m sorry Mike, I can’t respond to all of that stuff. confused

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Posted: 10 August 2013 02:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 130 ]
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Vyazma,
Yes the simplest stuff can get involved when you get into the finer details.
I think we both agree that the working man needs help.
My views are a little different because of my back ground and I feel the small businessman needs protection from our government.
With no small business, then all we will have are large companies that will not give a dam about the workers.
The way I look at process is that you have three parties involved. The worker, the management and the company. That is most companies are incorporated, therefore a separate entity is formed that is recognized by the government and laws as a separate entity. How this separate entity operates depends on the agreements between the managers and the workers with the company.

Corporate records and minutes will give you the agreement between the managers and the company. These are mostly public record.

The managers control the company but unions are able to take certain parts dealing with labor away from the managers and put under union control. Your teachers union is not able to do this because most school districts are not corporations. Hope this helps.

Take care, and I have enjoyed your conversation.
Mike

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Posted: 22 August 2013 07:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 131 ]
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I found this interesting from fox news.

Among the other findings is that welfare in 13 states pays more than $15 an hour, compared with the federal hourly minimum wage of $7.25.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/21/study-in-most-states-welfare-pays-more-than-minimum-wage-job/?intcmp=trending

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Posted: 24 August 2013 09:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 132 ]
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This country has a long history of underpaid labor.  I just think its unethical to pay people less than a living wage.  A Federal minimum wage makes no sense unless it is adjusted for the costs of living for that city/county.  So many people have suffered while doing good honest work. What would a living wage do for the rate of drug dealing?

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