I am new to this forum and looking meet like minded people.
Posted: 16 August 2013 01:58 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I do not believe in God, there simply are too many questions that the narrow line sight can answer (God did not create Dinosaurs and he/she sure as hell did create all those other planets circling ours. The Bible is a great book and a Best seller, Jesus was a person that simply roamed the earth during the time that he did. There are too many questions that have not been answered and religion is not the answer a best seller novel that billions follow like sheep. I do not believe that I am Aetheist, because I believe that means I would have to come to terms and accept that there is no such as God, where in a sense I would need believe that there is no such thing as God. I tend to view things from a different perspective if there is a god than it is likely he or she is the same as the rest of us. I don’t believe in heaven or hell, that I believe is something people to in order to measure themselves. In stead deny religion, religion is often the main cause of war, I think without religion people would all be free and equal, religion is often leads to hate when others do not believe in the same beliefs, people should take ownership of their mind and think about what is important to them not to their peers or to their church or the peer pressures others apply. I know I am rambling but this is just my opening intro and look forward to agree and disagree with all of you here.

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Posted: 16 August 2013 02:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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You are technically an agnostic or a Diest.

people should take ownership of their mind and think about what is important to them not to their peers or to their church or the peer pressures others apply.

Couldn’t agree more.
However, I add another important point.  One needs to seriously study before talking.  We all need to read books, articles, etc on sociology, psychology, feminism, history, religion, science, philosphy from credible scholars.

  It is not sufficient to merely to know a few random facts and then pass judgement on them if one has not studied the topic depth.
(Especially if one cannot give a reference for these facts.)

This may extreme to some. But considering this….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE

one has to be careful of where they get their information from.

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Say: He is God, the Unique.
God, the Self-Sufficient.
He does not give birth, nor was He born.
And there is none equal to Him.

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Posted: 16 August 2013 04:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Welcome, TINS.  From your self description, you sound like either an agnostic or a soft atheist.  To do this very simplistically, an agnostis says, “I don’t know”, and a soft atheist says, “I really don’t think a god exists, but I can’t prove it.”  I’m sure there are many here who will want to either nit-pick or at least be more precise, but that should give you some idea.

Note that while most of us here are atheists as well as humanists, we have a number of Christians and Moslems.  They make discussions more interesting and force us to think through our positions more carefully even though I doubt that they’ve converted anyone.

Again, welcome.

Occam
=======
I should add that you shouldn’t take anyone’s posts as necessarily valid because you’ll find some very intelligent, rational people here, and some crackpots.  You have to read critically and sort them out.  [Geez, I’m sure some of the kooks here are are going to get all upset because they’ll feel I’m putting them down. LOL ]
O

[ Edited: 16 August 2013 04:34 PM by Occam. ]
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Posted: 16 August 2013 10:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Occam. - 16 August 2013 04:08 PM

Welcome, TINS.  From your self description, you sound like either an agnostic or a soft atheist.  To do this very simplistically, an agnostis says, “I don’t know”, and a soft atheist says, “I really don’t think a god exists, but I can’t prove it.”  I’m sure there are many here who will want to either nit-pick or at least be more precise, but that should give you some idea.

Note that while most of us here are atheists as well as humanists, we have a number of Christians and Moslems.  They make discussions more interesting and force us to think through our positions more carefully even though I doubt that they’ve converted anyone.

Again, welcome.

Occam
=======
I should add that you shouldn’t take anyone’s posts as necessarily valid because you’ll find some very intelligent, rational people here, and some crackpots.  You have to read critically and sort them out.  [Geez, I’m sure some of the kooks here are are going to get all upset because they’ll feel I’m putting them down. LOL ]
O

Occam, you wrote

a soft atheist says, “I really don’t think a god exists, but I can’t prove it.”  I’m sure there are many here who will want to either nit-pick or at least be more precise, but that should give you some idea


Yikes, Occam, that’s wrong on so many levels.
Are you implying that a “hard atheist” can prove god does not exist?

An atheist (neither hard nor soft) has no belief in god.  Intelligent atheists know that the person rejecting a claim (in this case, that a god exists),  has no burden to prove anything.  The person who claims a god exists has that exclusive burden of proof. if no proof is forthcoming—that’s all that’s necessary for someome to declare himself an atheist. Not hard, not soft, just atheist. As Goldilocks would say, “An atheist is neither too hard nor too soft. An atheist is just right.” I wish people would stop calling atheists hard or soft.  There is no such thing. Not believing a god exists is all it takes to be an atheist. It doesn’t need hyperbole, it doesn’t need add-ons. It’s perfectly adequate as a descriptor without any ornamentation.

Lois

[ Edited: 16 August 2013 10:05 PM by Lois ]
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Posted: 17 August 2013 10:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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See, as I said, there will be many here who want to be more precise.  LOL

When someone declares his/her position, s/he can either present proof OR s/he can state it’s by faith.  I see a spectrum ranging from “hard” atheist to religious fundamentalist with agnostic somewhere in the middle.  When I used that adjective I was trying to differentiate between one who states categorically that there is no god, i.e., hard or an atheist fundamentalist by faith, and one who says “I think the probability of a god is less than one trillionth of a percent”, or soft atheist.  Although with that level of probability the softeness would be about 9.8 on the Mohs scale. smile

Occam

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Posted: 17 August 2013 10:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Occam. - 17 August 2013 10:10 AM

See, as I said, there will be many here who want to be more precise.  LOL

When someone declares his/her position, s/he can either present proof OR s/he can state it’s by faith.  I see a spectrum ranging from “hard” atheist to religious fundamentalist with agnostic somewhere in the middle.  When I used that adjective I was trying to differentiate between one who states categorically that there is no god, i.e., hard or an atheist fundamentalist by faith, and one who says “I think the probability of a god is less than one trillionth of a percent”, or soft atheist.  Although with that level of probability the softeness would be about 9.8 on the Mohs scale. smile

Occam

Anyone who claims there is no god has the burden to prove it because he is now making a claim.  I would not call an atheist who claims there is no god to be a hard atheist.  I would label him a fool who doesn’t understand the burden of proof or the folly of making unsupportable statements. If anything, THAT should be called weak atheism.

smile

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Posted: 17 August 2013 10:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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True, but the study about the correlation between higher IQ and atheism is positive, but not complete.  There are more and less intelligent people across the belief spectrum.  As unbelievable as one may find it, I’ve actually met a few highly intelligent people who were religious fundamentalists.  Hell, I even know an extremely bright political conservative. LOL

And, I don’t come up with the categories myself, Lois.  I just have a good memory and that discussion, with those categories, went on here and another forum a few years ago.

Occam

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Posted: 18 August 2013 10:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Thank you for all the comments and suggestions. I must apologize for not proof-reading my intro before hitting the reply and also the delayed response due to a “no computer” family vacation that I just returned from.

I do not believe that I am in any form agnostic or atheist, religion is an Institution. I deny this Institution as it does not imply to me, it has no importance or significance, nor does it impact my life in any form. Religion is formed around values and beliefs, where Atheist can believe that there is no such thing as god, whereas a christian can believe in Jesus, or a Jew can believe that god is a direct source. I think by understanding that religion is nothing more than an Institution or a control, and to realize there is a choice not follow the sheep or believe, but rather believe in yourself that you have choices and you have control over your life as nothing has control over you, has a completely different understanding.

I tend to believe that people are raised into religion, after-all family is an institution as religion is. Starting a young age our parents tell us to believe in Santa Clause, after-all we like presents and we like to get what we want. Which is interesting that Christmas is the same day that Jesus was born in the manger, and perhaps one of those Wise men took a marker of some sort and recorded the date on the wall of manger or maybe it was written a calf skin, and the date 12/25 lived for forever more. Back on the point though with the institution of family, within family there are beliefs in which family teaches religion. As the family teaches the children about Santa Clause, with religion they learn about God or Jesus, and often those 2 are confused topics. Eventually, as children age become older they begin not to believe in Santa, there really is no substantial story there, he is from North Pole has Reindeer and Elves, this easy to grow out of. With Religion, we come to the point of I’ve never seen or heard, this doesn’t seem right, but what Santa Clause was missing religion has, there is a story called the bible and it appears in too many forms, in fact it is adaptable so that each family can have their own version of it, and family teaches generations of family what their families religion is. They form the part of the institution that is controlled, when they try to break free they are encouraged to learn and participate more in religion and not venture outside of the belief or faith. Learn more about god or jesus, or santa clause. It is hard to separate the religious view, when your family is engulfed into it and family is controlling you to participate in it.

As for me, I do not have a belief (there is a difference between belief and understanding,) I am not participating, therefore if I am labeled than, I am nothing, I don’t submit to religion or the controlled institution that it is in any form. I was born, I will live and I will die, there is nothing further than what I know and understand. I know that I was nothing that became something, eventually I will die and become nothing again. There really is nothing more to it than that. I don’t want to be controlled, after-all there is no spoon.

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Posted: 21 August 2013 11:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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You do not have to be a communist to understand communism.
Religion can be the same.
But I got to say that most of the atheists on this site understand religion better than any of the Christian bible thump-er friends of mine.

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