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grand pa ray
Posted: 29 August 2013 12:42 PM   [ Ignore ]
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hello, this is my first ever post to anything.  I am 77 and have some idea’s that might help get to more seniors.  ex. any Sunday there are religious programs trying to scare money out of the old people and being very good at it.  there should be equal programs like the atheist experience and dan Dennett type programs on sunday mornings.  I have been a catholic for 75 of those years and the name atheist was coined by Christians to label people the negative way they wanted.  so I coined the term cathestic which needs a definition.  most of my life was in a tradition that I now question, but my friends and relatives are important to me.  now I have to explain what a catheist is.          grand pa ray

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Posted: 29 August 2013 02:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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grand pa ray - 29 August 2013 12:42 PM

hello, this is my first ever post to anything.  I am 77 and have some idea’s that might help get to more seniors.  ex. any Sunday there are religious programs trying to scare money out of the old people and being very good at it.  there should be equal programs like the atheist experience and dan Dennett type programs on sunday mornings.  I have been a catholic for 75 of those years and the name atheist was coined by Christians to label people the negative way they wanted.  so I coined the term cathestic which needs a definition.  most of my life was in a tradition that I now question, but my friends and relatives are important to me.  now I have to explain what a catheist is.          grand pa ray

I know, just tell them that you like to steal cats…they’ll get it!! [cat heist] smirk

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Posted: 07 September 2013 07:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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scott, I did not know what I was getting into with that first post.  i’ll try again.  thanks grand pa ray

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Posted: 07 September 2013 10:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Don’t worry, G.P.R., Scott was a wanna-be wise ass who’s gone.  You can ignore what he said.

Occam

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Posted: 10 September 2013 10:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Ray,
I’m a senior atheist too. My experience has shown me that at first my friends tried to save me. Then after three to four years of learning answers to questions that Faith never asks or answers they never questioned before they begin to question some of the basis ideals of religion. At that point they back off and would rather not talk about religion.
I just helped a buddy of mine open up his church. And I support his church. After all my friends are also important to me.
I would get rid of the word “catheist,” there is already too much confusion out there. The meanings of words change over time and usage. For example “Pagan” use to be a bad word to me. Now I do not see it that way. It is a good word.

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Posted: 16 September 2013 08:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Hi Mike Yohe, thanks for the reply.  my intention was to come up with something that would be a temporary bridge for all my friends and relatives that haven’t taken the time to question.  the fears these people have are very real about not believing the things they were told and it is very hard for them to question.  in my case I have always doubted and reasoned even though I went all the way and was in just about every organization the catholic religion offered.  my experiences were all positive at the time and I thought maybe this center for inquiry would be a good place to suggest to people.  a former catholic has a better chance of getting thru to a catholic, so if we came up with different words that identified me as someone who has similar life experiences etc etc   that was my hope.

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Posted: 16 September 2013 11:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Ray,
Intelligent Design covers just about anything you want. I mean you could say it was God’s plan for me to be an Atheist.

But, I know what you mean. That does not mean you can’t have fun and you are right most believers do not question.

Start off with the simple things like in Genesis 1:3-3 “God said, Let there be light.”
Who was he talking to?

That’s a leading question because if he had to say it because the real power was in the “words”. Then that is the base of the earlier Egyptian religion where the real power was in the words themselves.

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Posted: 18 September 2013 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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grand pa ray - 16 September 2013 08:36 AM

Hi Mike Yohe, thanks for the reply.  my intention was to come up with something that would be a temporary bridge for all my friends and relatives that haven’t taken the time to question.  the fears these people have are very real about not believing the things they were told and it is very hard for them to question.  in my case I have always doubted and reasoned even though I went all the way and was in just about every organization the catholic religion offered.  my experiences were all positive at the time and I thought maybe this center for inquiry would be a good place to suggest to people.  a former catholic has a better chance of getting thru to a catholic, so if we came up with different words that identified me as someone who has similar life experiences etc etc   that was my hope.

So, are you thinking about doing something yourself? I like the Sunday morning idea. I wish James Randi had been on a Saturday morning children’s show for me back in the 70’s, it would have saved me a lot of time. But I get the sense you are thinking more along the lines of a chat show, like The 700 Club, but for atheists, where people are just sitting in a living room setting, discussing morality and the meaning of life.

Most of these religious shows started off pretty humble. I’ve heard it is not hard to start up a cable show, but I’ve never tried. TV evangelism started before cable and the internet and seems to be dying out, but since you are trying to reach seniors, that format might work.

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Posted: 21 September 2013 07:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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thank you Lausten,  you understood what I was getting at.  I have been watching the show from texas chaired by matt dillahunty and he and tracie harris seem to have a great feel for honest inquiry by fundamental Christians. the show is called THE ATHEIST EXPERIENCE qnd the A word does not explain anything.  but if we had a show with a skeptical representative from each denomination it would not be so blunt.  that would be my dream.

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Posted: 23 September 2013 10:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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grand pa ray - 21 September 2013 07:08 AM

but if we had a show with a skeptical representative from each denomination it would not be so blunt.  that would be my dream.

I’ve been a fan of ACA for a long time. Matt has a great grasp of the Bible from his strict religious upbringing. I get a little frustrated with him sometimes because he tends to jump to challenging people on issues of slavery or the death penalty for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. He does this too quickly in my opinion. Tracie is better at asking a question that gets the person to think. Part of it is the format of the show. It is setup to be confrontational. Some of Matt’s other speeches show more compassion and understanding of the many shades of belief.

A show that presented itself as aware of the many denominations and presented information on where those differences came from might bring in a different audience. For instance, if people knew of the Anabapists and how recent their ideas were taught, maybe they would see how it doesn’t matter when you get baptized, it’s just a ritual that we attached meaning to.

One thing I’m not sure of is, how well a TV show would catch on. The ACA started a long time ago. A podcast with written questions might work better.

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Posted: 23 September 2013 11:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Lausten, thanks for the reply.  I guess my reasoning comes from my past involvement and desire to do something in my lifetime. it seems such a shame that things take so long and that also is the way religions want events to happen.  the more exposure people have to reasoning things out, our country would be better off. religions have turned people against each other and politically smart people have become the pawns of this vicious viruses.  good people do not want to rock the boat and think its bad to say anything or investigate the subject. with all the problems we are having in this country, cutting off the money by eliminating the tax exempt status would be one fast way to get the job done.

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Posted: 23 September 2013 01:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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grand pa ray - 23 September 2013 11:52 AM

Lausten, thanks for the reply.  I guess my reasoning comes from my past involvement and desire to do something in my lifetime. it seems such a shame that things take so long and that also is the way religions want events to happen.  the more exposure people have to reasoning things out, our country would be better off. religions have turned people against each other and politically smart people have become the pawns of this vicious viruses.  good people do not want to rock the boat and think its bad to say anything or investigate the subject. with all the problems we are having in this country, cutting off the money by eliminating the tax exempt status would be one fast way to get the job done.

Personally I like the word “Humanist”. It is secular and clearly states that human affairs are close to your heart.  Right now when a person wants to identify himself with helping people, they call themselves Christians (following the philosophies of Jesus), but that requires a “leap of faith”.
OTOH, Humanist is a neutral word and avoids the inevitable different interpretations of god and religion.

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Posted: 24 September 2013 06:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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write4u, words and their meaning. I have spent most of my life in selling to businesses people.  words turn people off very quickly and the visual clues very slight most people do not understand what these signals mean.  as a catholic most of my life the word humanist means “not a catholic” communication ends there period.  it is the same for most words people use to separate them from others, creating a word that needs to be clarified will at least require conversation.  I can be more useful if I stay in there and question.

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Posted: 24 September 2013 03:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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grand pa ray - 24 September 2013 06:19 AM

write4u, words and their meaning. I have spent most of my life in selling to businesses people.  words turn people off very quickly and the visual clues very slight most people do not understand what these signals mean.  as a catholic most of my life the word humanist means “not a catholic” communication ends there period.  it is the same for most words people use to separate them from others, creating a word that needs to be clarified will at least require conversation.  I can be more useful if I stay in there and question.

IMO, therein lies the problem. Religious people are so indoctrinated to invoke god and religion in order to become “trustworthy”, that any other expression of compassion and love for the world, without reference to a religion, is viewed as suspicious.
You have just touched on the OP question. I have tried to join a religious website and a requirement of acceptance was the belief in god, at which time I lost interest in any prospect of having a “objective” discussion about the grandeur of the universe.

But the word Humanist has absolutely nothing to do with religion. An atheist can be a humanist, so can a Tibetan monk be a humanist.
In fact Christians take pride in Jesus’ message of humanism. But one needs not be of any religion to be a Humanist. Oddly, even some animals exhibit “humane” traits.

CFI is a perfect example of a secular Humanist website. All humanists are welcome, regardless of religion. No need to pretend.

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Posted: 24 September 2013 05:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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W4U is correct.  In fact, one of the major points I’ve managed to get across with religious people is that humanism has nothing to do, positive or negative, with theism.  I recall seeing a booth at a UUA symposium years ago with the banner, “Religous Humanists”.  This change is a first subtle chink in their armor.  When they can accept the idea of a person having morals, ethics, and caring for others without being religious, their thinking becomes less of a dichotomy between theism and atheism.

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Posted: 24 September 2013 09:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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grand pa ray - 24 September 2013 06:19 AM

write4u, words and their meaning. I have spent most of my life in selling to businesses people.  words turn people off very quickly and the visual clues very slight most people do not understand what these signals mean.  as a catholic most of my life the word humanist means “not a catholic” communication ends there period.  it is the same for most words people use to separate them from others, creating a word that needs to be clarified will at least require conversation.  I can be more useful if I stay in there and question.

I have never heard that definition of humanism before, though I was raised a Catholic,  especially in light of the fact that several popes have described themselves as humanists, albeit of the Renaissance variety.  You might like to read this Wikipedia article on Renaissance Humanism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_humanism

Lois

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