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who is this man?
Posted: 24 September 2013 05:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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No doubt the Koran is unique.  I imagine that it could be quite comforting to anyone wishing to subject themselves to rules that were quite effective in promoting a successfully functioning society in the 7th century, who also need the comfort of believing in the existence of an imaginary supreme being.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 24 September 2013 07:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Isn’t there a rule against simply cutting and pasting things from other websites?

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/541/

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Posted: 28 September 2013 02:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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There are several key verses which Christians use to prove the biblical origin of the Trinity.  Upon analysis of these verses, one can clearly see that they do not prove the Trinity, but rather the same monotheistic message of God.  One of the most frequently cited passages from the Bible is Isaiah 9:6-7, from which Christians conclude that the Messiah must be God incarnate.  The passage states:

“or a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.  There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness from then on and forevermore the zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.”

That Isaiah 9:6 has been misinterpreted can be seen from the fact that Jesus is never called the “Eternal Father” anywhere else in Bible.  Since the Trinitarian doctrine teaches that Christians should “neither confound the Persons nor divide the Substance” (Athanasian Creed), how can the Trinitarians accept that Jesus is the “Eternal Father”? Let us consider additional facts impartially.

First, all the Hebrew verb forms in Isaiah 9:6 are in the past tense.  For example, the word which the Christian Bibles render as “his name will be called” is the two words ‘vayikra shemo,’ which properly translated, should read “his name was called.”  The word “vayikra” is the first word to appear in the book of Leviticus (1:1), and it is translated properly over there – in the past tense.  In addition, the King James Version translates the same verbs elsewhere in the past tense in Genesis 4:26 and Isaiah 5:25.  Only in Isaiah 9:6-7 are these verbs translated in the future tense!

Notice that it says “a child HAS been born to us.”  This is an event that has just occurred, not a future event.  Isaiah is not making a prophecy, but recounting history.  A future event would say a child will be born to us, but this is NOT what the verse says.  The Christian translations capitalize the word ‘son’ assuming that this is a messianic prophecy and the names of a divine son.

Second, the two letter word “is”, is usually not stated in Hebrew.  Rather, “is” is understood.  For example, the words “hakelev” (the dog) and “gadol” (big), when joined into a sentence - hakelev gadol - means “the dog IS big,” even though no Hebrew word in that sentence represents the word “is.”  A more accurate translation of the name of that child, then, would be “A wonderful counselor is the mighty God, the everlasting father ...”.  This name describes God, not the person who carries the name.  The name Isaiah itself means “God is salvation,” but no one believes the prophet himself is God in a human body!

Third, the phrase “Mighty God” is a poor translation according to some biblical scholars.  Although English makes a clear distinction between “God” and “god,” the Hebrew language, which has only capital letters, cannot.  The Hebrew word “God” had a much wider range of application than it does in English.  Some suggest a better translation for the English reader would be “mighty hero,” or “divine hero.”  Both Martin Luther and James Moffatt translated the phrase as “divine hero” in their Bibles.

Fourth, according to the New Testament, Jesus was never called any of these names in his lifetime.

Fifth, if Isaiah 9:6 is taken to refer to Jesus, then Jesus is the Father!  And this is against the Trinitarian doctrine.

Sixth, the fact that the New Testament does not quote this passage shows that even the New Testament authors didn’t take this verse to be in reference to Jesus.

Seventh, the passage is talking about the wonders performed by the Lord for Hezekiah, king of Judah.  Preceding verses in Isaiah 9 talk of a great military triumph by Israel over its enemies.  At the time Isaiah is said to have written this passage, God had just delivered King Hezekiah and Jerusalem from a siege laid by the Assyrians under General Sennacherib.  The deliverance is said to have been accomplished in spectacular fashion: an angel went into the Assyrian camp and killed 185,000 soldiers while they slept. 


When Sennacherib awoke to find his army decimated, he and the remaining soldiers fled, where he was assassinated by his own sons (Isaiah 37:36-38).  Chapters 36 and 37 of Isaiah recount how Hezekiah stood firm in the face of Sennacherib’s vast army and his blasphemous words against the God.  When all seemed lost, Hezekiah continued to trust in the Lord, and for this he was rewarded with a miraculous victory.  It is interesting to note that the statement, “the zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this,” found at the end of Isaiah 9:7, is found in only two other places in the Bible: Isaiah 37:32 and 2 Kings 19:31.  Both these passages discuss the miraculous deliverance of Hezekiah by God.  Therefore, in light of the above, Isaiah is recounting God’s defense of Jerusalem during the Assyrian siege.  Furthermore, Soncino’s commentary says the chapter is about the fall of Assyria and the announcement of the birth of Hezekiah, the son of Ahaz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl_VVivr1dc

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Posted: 28 September 2013 03:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Doug, Lausten is right. He just copies pages from http://www.islamreligion.com.

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“The light is on, but there is nobody at home”

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Posted: 28 September 2013 05:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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yasoooo, copying pages without attribution is strictly against the rules. If you wish to link to material on a page, you may copy short pieces (a few sentences) and provide a link to the original. Continued failure to observe the rules will lead to banning. Thanks.

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Posted: 28 September 2013 08:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Surprise! All you secular humanists.  Bet you didn’t know that Biblical scriptures don’t prove the Trinity (as in Yasoo’is last paste, I mean post).  He failed to mention that the existence of the Koran doesn’t prove the existence of Allah, except as a concept.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 28 September 2013 09:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Tim,
Of course you are excluding the Gnostic teachings of Jesus, which give a completely different meaning to the words of the spirit.

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Posted: 28 September 2013 09:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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MikeYohe - 28 September 2013 09:02 AM

Tim,
Of course you are excluding the Gnostic teachings of Jesus, which give a completely different meaning to the words of the spirit.

Yes, I am probably excluding that, as I don’t know what you’re talking about. Specifically, I am not up on the Gnostic teachings of Jesus and I don’t have a concept of what you mean by “words of the spirit”.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 28 September 2013 10:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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MikeYohe - 28 September 2013 09:02 AM

Tim,
Of course you are excluding the Gnostic teachings of Jesus, which give a completely different meaning to the words of the spirit.

That’s all we have. Difference meanings from different teachers. The fashion now is to say that this is what Christianity is supposed to be. This comes across as “the one true meaning is that there are many meanings”. Just as nonsensical as each of the previous.

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Posted: 01 October 2013 01:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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“The Holy Spirit refers to the Angel Jibreel (Gabriel), also known as Jibraaeel; he is the message-bearer par excellence from Allah, the Lord of Glory and Grace; he is also the conduit of divine support and assistance bestowed on Prophets, Messengers as well as righteous people who strive in the path of Allah.

1. Thus we read in the Qur�an that the Prophets (peace be upon them all) are chosen by Allah by sending down the Holy Spirit with the revelations: �He sends down the Spirit from His command, upon those of His servants He chooses, in order to warn people of the Day of Meeting.� (Ghafir: 15)

2. We also read in the Qur�an that it (the Qur�an) was sent down upon the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) through the medium of Holy Spirit: �Say: The Holy Spirit brought it down from your Lord with the truth, to strengthen those who believe, and as a guidance and good tidings to the Muslims.� (An-Nahl: 102)

“And your Lord, He is indeed the August, the Compassionate. And it is a sending down from the Lord of the Worlds, brought down by the Trustworthy Spirit, upon your heart, that you may be one of the warners, in Arabic speech.� (Ash-Shu`ara’: 191-195)

3. It is in the same spirit that we read in the Qur�an that the Holy Spirit was sent down to strengthen Jesus and assist him in his work:
�We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear signs, and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit�� (Al-Baqarah: 253)

�Then Allah will say, O Jesus son of Mary! Remember My favor upon you and upon your mother; how I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit�� (Al-Ma’idah: 110)

4. Furthermore, we read in the Prophetic traditions: The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, �Verily, the Holy Spirit has cast this idea in my heart: No soul shall die before its appointed time and without having exhausted the means of livelihood apportioned for it, so try to look for a livelihood as best as you can, but don�t seek it through unlawful means.� (Reported by Abu Nu`aym in Hilyah)

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) prayed to Allah to strengthen the famous poet Hassan ibn Thabit with the Holy Spirit in composing poems in defense of Islam: �O Allah! Strengthen him with the Holy Spirit.� (Reported by al-Bukhari)

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) later on said about Hassan: �Verily Allah, the Glorious and Mighty, is strengthening Hassan with the Holy Spirit.� (Reported by at-Tirmidhi and Ahmad) �The Holy Spirit is with Hassan in his work!� (Reported by Abu Dawud)

It should be clear from the above that the Holy Spirit is the Angel Jibreel sent by Allah to assist His chosen servants in their divinely ordained missions.”


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJP0-O6atSs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meR4qQwT3KY

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Posted: 01 October 2013 04:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Copied from HERE without attribution.

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Posted: 01 October 2013 04:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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dougsmith - 01 October 2013 04:07 AM

Copied from HERE without attribution.


Whats attribution to a theist?

Lois

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Posted: 01 October 2013 05:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Ban Hammer yet? No conversation to ‘speak’ of, just the usual tiresome cut and pasties.  LOL

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Church; where sheep congregate to worship a zombie on a stick that turns into a cracker on Sundays…

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Posted: 02 October 2013 04:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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asanta - 01 October 2013 05:36 PM

Ban Hammer yet? No conversation to ‘speak’ of, just the usual tiresome cut and pasties.  LOL

Banned, yes, for rule violations.

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