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John Boehner: Worst Speaker of the House ever, so far
Posted: 24 September 2013 03:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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I don’t know if he is the worst Speaker ever but he is the weakest and most impotent Speaker in my life and I have been arround for a while.

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Posted: 24 September 2013 03:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Lois - 24 September 2013 03:33 PM
VYAZMA - 24 September 2013 02:51 PM
Occam. - 24 September 2013 09:08 AM

I believe that best economic system is strongly regulated capitalism.  The only situation in which communism would work is if there were no parasites, no predators, and no one had significant self-interest that affected the needs of the society in any way.

Occam

Not one single person advocated for communism here.
That was just Bryan twisting people’s words around.
That’s how communism came into this discussion.

When we talk about ecomomic systems, communism is bound to come up. It is an economic system and some people support it. When we discuss economic systems, sometimes we must talk about all of them, even the ones most people would reject. There is good reason to compare them and to understand why some don’t work in the real world.

Lois

Maybe sometimes, but I think a modified Godwin’s Law was in effect here, like it often is.

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Posted: 24 September 2013 03:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Here’s an excerpt from an article by someone who apparently agrees with my views on Boehner’s weakness:

“...Boehner doesn’t want to make any great moral points. He wants to get the hell out of there, go to K Street, make a few million a year, and spend more time golfing. Taking moral stands can only impede that greasy path.

So Boehner will limp toward retirement. In all likelihood his legacy will be failing completely in his job as co-governor and ceding control of his caucus to extremists. And here’s the worst part: all of the above is the good news. The bad news? His successor will be far worse.”

For the full article:  http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/23/john-boehner-is-letting-gop-extremists-hold-the-government-hostage.html

It is scary to consider that a weakling like Boehner or a reactionary ideologue like his successor is bound to be, could become POTUS at any given moment, should something happen to the President and Vice-President.

[ Edited: 24 September 2013 04:04 PM by TimB ]
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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 03 October 2013 02:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Well, our congress can wrack up it’s first death as a result of this ludicrous governance by shutting down government.
I would not be surprised if this woman was facing total ruin because of this callous disregard of congress’ mandate to “serve the people”.

How much longer before we start calling these 30 or 40 anarchists who are responsible for this intentional disaster as “seditionists”?

[ Edited: 03 October 2013 02:12 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 03 October 2013 04:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Write4U - 03 October 2013 02:09 PM

Well, our congress can wrack up it’s first death as a result of this ludicrous governance by shutting down government.
I would not be surprised if this woman was facing total ruin because of this callous disregard of congress’ mandate to “serve the people”.

How much longer before we start calling these 30 or 40 anarchists who are responsible for this intentional disaster as “seditionists”?

Really?  Blaming some in Congress?  rolleyes

I would not be surprised if this woman had a history of mental illness.  But I admit, I could be wrong about that. 

We all need to guard against projecting our own politics onto anecdotal news stories within minutes of them unfolding.  We simply don’t know all the answers to this tragedy yet.

[ Edited: 03 October 2013 04:22 PM by Rocinante ]
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There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation.

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Posted: 03 October 2013 04:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Rocinante - 03 October 2013 04:20 PM
Write4U - 03 October 2013 02:09 PM

Well, our congress can wrack up it’s first death as a result of this ludicrous governance by shutting down government.
I would not be surprised if this woman was facing total ruin because of this callous disregard of congress’ mandate to “serve the people”.

How much longer before we start calling these 30 or 40 anarchists who are responsible for this intentional disaster as “seditionists”?

Really?  Blaming some in Congress?  rolleyes

I would not be surprised if this woman had a history of mental illness.  But I admit, I could be wrong about that. 

We all need to guard against projecting our own politics onto anecdotal news stories within minutes of them unfolding.  We simply don’t know all the answers to this tragedy yet.

I agree, it was a speculation, but her target seems somewhat indicative of what she was thinking, confused as it may have been.
Apparently she was not happy with the government.

The fact is that about 35 people in congress are practicing anarchy. Time for negotiation is over. Obamacare is law, the president was re-elected with a sizable majority. The debates are over and it is time to vote on the budget. Now 35 neophites want to have last minute concessions, or else they will (and did) shut down a nation of 300,000,000 people.

The process has run its course and a budget is on the table, now VOTE on it or shut the hell up and wait for the elections which will decide who governs the country. Then you can write your own laws.

[ Edited: 03 October 2013 04:52 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 03 October 2013 04:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Write4U - 03 October 2013 04:44 PM

...her target seems somewhat indicative of what she was thinking, confused as it may have been.

The White House would be just as much a target due to its symbolism or place in history, as to the politics of who occupies it at any given time.

Write4U - 03 October 2013 04:44 PM

Apparently she was not happy with the government.

Apparently neither are you. wink

Write4U - 03 October 2013 04:44 PM

Now 35 neophites want to have last minute concessions, or else they will shut down a nation of 300,000,000 people.

A bit melodramatic, don’t you think?  You are somehow still able to access the Internet to post your comments.  The police in Washington D.C. didn’t seem to be shut down one bit from the video I saw.  And speaking of seeing it, somehow my electricity and cable still works just fine with the nation of 300,000,000 people shut down.  I haven’t heard any news stories of planes falling out of the skies.  This “shut down” just proves that government is too big.

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There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation.

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Posted: 03 October 2013 06:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Rocinante - 03 October 2013 04:59 PM
Write4U - 03 October 2013 04:44 PM

...her target seems somewhat indicative of what she was thinking, confused as it may have been.

The White House would be just as much a target due to its symbolism or place in history, as to the politics of who occupies it at any given time.

Write4U - 03 October 2013 04:44 PM

Apparently she was not happy with the government.

Apparently neither are you. wink

Write4U - 03 October 2013 04:44 PM

Now 35 neophites want to have last minute concessions, or else they will shut down a nation of 300,000,000 people.

A bit melodramatic, don’t you think?  You are somehow still able to access the Internet to post your comments.  The police in Washington D.C. didn’t seem to be shut down one bit from the video I saw.  And speaking of seeing it, somehow my electricity and cable still works just fine with the nation of 300,000,000 people shut down.  I haven’t heard any news stories of planes falling out of the skies.  This “shut down” just proves that government is too big.

Are you telling me the country can work just fine without government “services”. IMO, you seriously underestimate the damage this is doing to our country of 300,000,000 million people. Laying off 800,000 taxpaying wage earners will seriously impact the economy.

And I am not surprised, this was a declared intention by a few individuals. Remember the promise “we will do anything to make this president fail”?  They may get their wish, but it won’t be Obama’s failure, it will be theirs. But of course Obama executive branch of government is to blame for the total dysfunction of that “independent” other branch of government.

Debate over details is over, it is time to vote on the national budget as per the rules of the game. No one is preventing anyone from voting on keeping the government functioning. The Republicans are refusing to vote and thereby are committing acts and speech of sedition.

Perhaps you are not affected by this, but that is the mindset of these seditionists. They still get paid and have their perks like health insurance, while some children may die from malnutrition. But who cares, right? As long as you get yours all this handwringing is just melodrama.

[ Edited: 03 October 2013 07:03 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 03 October 2013 07:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Rocinante,

Are you under the impression that all tax dollars goes into the pockets of “government”. The government is a non-profit organization and except for administrative costs, all tax dollars are used to provide public services, which have now stopped. and then we get a congressman complaining of not having access to our national parks or monuments and insulting a park ranger who is not getting paid for his work.
And this is a congressman who is refusing to vote on keeping the government functioning and then has the hypocrisy to blame Obama for ordering the closure of our national parks. Talking about melodrama. I am outraged, outraged by this kind of racist demagoguery.

[ Edited: 03 October 2013 07:17 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 04 October 2013 06:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Write4U - 03 October 2013 07:09 PM

I am outraged, outraged by this kind of racist demagoguery.


Your words:

•  “our congress can wrack up it’s first death”
•  “anarchists”
•  “seditionists”
•  “racist”


Then you claim others demagogue.  grin  Pot, meet kettle. 

I don’t deny there is demagoguery going on by republicans.  Just as there is demagoguery going on by democrats:

•  President Obama said republicans were “...putting a gun to the other person’s head…” 
•  Like you, Harry Reid used the term “anarchists” in describing republicans. 
•  Nancy Pelosi called them “legislative arsonists.” 
•  Sen. Chuck Schumer said, “You cannot negotiate when they take hostages and when they extort.”
•  Senior White House Advisor Dan Pfeiffer said, “What we’re not for is negotiating with people who have a bomb strapped to their chest”
•  Former Vice President Al Gore said, “The only phrase that describes it is political terrorism.”
•  Senator Agnus King said of republicans, “...those people are guilty of murder in my opinion.” 

Not Tu quo’ing, just keeping this discussion honest by showing the other side you conveniently left out. 


I don’t worship at the altar of government.  I know life goes on just fine.  I know that this government “shutdown” is only a game of semantics and some political theatrics by those on both sides. 

Just use the IRS as a benchmark.  As it stands now, the IRS is not sending out checks, but they sure as hell are still collecting taxes! 

Or look at the Grand Canyon.  The State of Arizona offered to foot the bill to keep it open.  The feds said, “No!”  That would have been a nice compromise.  But Obama (who has no problem negotiating with the Islamofascist, misogynist, homophobic leader of Iran) refuses to negotiate with the Representatives of the American people.  And since 75% of American voters don’t want the current Obamacare, their Representatives are doing their job in trying to get it changed.

The message from Obama is loud and clear:  Let big things like the Grand Canyon or the WWII Memorial “shut down” to use as political ammunition.  Obama wanted this “shut down” just as much as any republican.  And both are using demagoguery.  But life goes on.  And in the end, if more American people realize just that - that they can live just fine without a massive and intrusive government that won’t compromise with the American people, then hopefully their mindset will shift a bit more towards freedom and away from the slavish addiction of government dependence. 

And that’s a good thing.

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There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation.

—James Madison

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Posted: 04 October 2013 06:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Oh, and by the way, it looks like I was right about the possibility of mental illness playing a part:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/04/20816675-woman-in-dc-chase-may-have-thought-obama-was-stalking-her-sources-say?lite

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There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation.

—James Madison

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Posted: 04 October 2013 10:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Rocinante - 04 October 2013 06:44 AM

The message from Obama is loud and clear:  Let big things like the Grand Canyon or the WWII Memorial “shut down” to use as political ammunition.  Obama wanted this “shut down” just as much as any republican.  And both are using demagoguery.

Bingo.

It was amusing hearing Hugh Hewitt question an objective mainstream media journalist (Dylan Byers of Politico) on this point.

Hewitt points out that, under the hostage analogy the Democrats have used so often, Reed is refusing to accept the release of a hostage when Republicans send a bill that will fund, for example, the NIH and the Democrats refuse to take up the bill.  Byers splutters that, in context, Reed is just avoiding giving the Republicans what they want, which is control of what gets funded.  Of course that’s part of the function of Congress and the House.

All of the hostages or none is the Democrats’ method of doing hostage negotiation (Hewitt points out—quote may be approximate—“Who ever heard of refusing to accept the release of hostages?”).  It’s political theater.  If the NIH misses out on funding the Democrats have to share the blame.

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Posted: 04 October 2013 08:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Keep the government shutdown!
Please. Just long enough so I can listen to the average Tea Bagger or conservative
whining about the absence of Big Government.
Keep it shutdown!
I hope Reid and Obama and the rest of them call these idiots bluff.
I just want to see these bozos begging for government to return!
Oh, and they will.  The moderate GOP are already whispering.
Keep it shutdown!
Reid and Obama better not cave.

[ Edited: 04 October 2013 08:17 PM by VYAZMA ]
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Posted: 05 October 2013 12:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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VYAZMA pretty much makes your point for you, Rocinante.

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Posted: 05 October 2013 12:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Bryan - 04 October 2013 10:30 AM
Rocinante - 04 October 2013 06:44 AM

The message from Obama is loud and clear:  Let big things like the Grand Canyon or the WWII Memorial “shut down” to use as political ammunition.  Obama wanted this “shut down” just as much as any republican.  And both are using demagoguery.

Bingo.

It was amusing hearing Hugh Hewitt question an objective mainstream media journalist (Dylan Byers of Politico) on this point.

Hewitt points out that, under the hostage analogy the Democrats have used so often, Reed is refusing to accept the release of a hostage when Republicans send a bill that will fund, for example, the NIH and the Democrats refuse to take up the bill.  Byers splutters that, in context, Reed is just avoiding giving the Republicans what they want, which is control of what gets funded.  Of course that’s part of the function of Congress and the House.

All of the hostages or none is the Democrats’ method of doing hostage negotiation (Hewitt points out—quote may be approximate—“Who ever heard of refusing to accept the release of hostages?”).  It’s political theater.  If the NIH misses out on funding the Democrats have to share the blame.

What twisted logic is this?

Are you saying that a small republican minority in congress (30-40 individuals) can shut down the entire government for 300,000,000 people, because they do not like ONE law of their own proposed budget which the dems agreed to.  If congress would vote on this today the current budget would pass with a bi-partisan majority. In any case they cannot declare the old budget under which the current government has functioned with positive results, null and void and refuse to pass even a CR.  IMO that is sedition!

The very people who complain about the government ARE part of the government. In an orderly functioning government, there are timeframes of getting things done, that need to be done.  There is a procedure of back and forth and at the end a vote is taken, at which time the Bill becomes Law (or not) and is included in the budget as a necessary expense.

Comes 30 or 40 Radical representatives who somehow prevent the leadership of one of the congressional parties, to follow this orderly process and create chaos in the governance of a nation of 300,000,000 people and now have expanded the problem to include the existing current budget under which the government was functional for years with positive impact on the Economy.

Laws can only be changed or defunded by congressional procedure. Not by defunding the entire government at budget time.

I would propose that if the government is shut down Congress is defunded by default and citizens would no longer be required to pay any taxes.  This of course is anarchy and does not belong in a civilized country that considers itself a shining light of democracy.

[ Edited: 05 October 2013 01:11 AM by Write4U ]
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