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Opinions of Nordic countries
Posted: 22 October 2013 11:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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CuthbertJ - 16 October 2013 10:35 AM

My response in the ‘world of our own making’ thread made me want to start a separate thread.

Every poll, survey, etc. I’ve seen leads me to believe the Nordic countries of Norway, Finland, and Sweden are wonderful places, especially for non-religious, free-thinkers, etc. I’m sure none of them are perfect.  But does anyone here have any first hand experience living in these countries? I’m at the age where retirement is on the distant horizon. I have it in the back of my mind that I should shoot for one of these countries.

I’ve never been, but they supposedly have high suicide rates?

Canada might be a better choice.

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Posted: 23 October 2013 01:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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mid atlantic - 22 October 2013 11:16 PM

I’ve never been, but they supposedly have high suicide rates?

Canada might be a better choice.

Except Finland… don’t bother.

Suicides per 100,000

Finland     16.9 
(2011)
USA         12.0 (2009)
Norway      11.9 (2011)
Canada      11.5 (2009)
Denmark     11.3 (2010)
Sweden      11.1 (2010)
Switzerland 11.1 (2009)
Netherlands  8.8 (2010

Excerpt from here. (I took Switzerland and the Netherlands on it because I am Dutch but living in Switzerland). I only know I like the Danish and Swedes very much, but that are just holiday experiences.

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Posted: 24 October 2013 09:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Wow, Greenland is at 108. That’s an order of magnitude above all the rest.  I wonder what accounts for that?

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Posted: 24 October 2013 10:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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GdB - 23 October 2013 01:57 AM
mid atlantic - 22 October 2013 11:16 PM

I’ve never been, but they supposedly have high suicide rates?

Canada might be a better choice.

Except Finland… don’t bother.

Suicides per 100,000

Finland     16.9 
(2011)
USA         12.0 (2009)
Norway      11.9 (2011)N
Canada      11.5 
(2009)
Denmark     11.3 (2010)
Sweden      11.1 (2010)
Switzerland 11.1 (2009)
Netherlands  8.8 (2010

Excerpt from here. (I took Switzerland and the Netherlands on it because I am Dutch but living in Switzerland). I only know I like the Danish and Swedes very much, but that are just holiday experiences.

Anyone have a guess as to why Finland is so high and the Netherlands so low?

Lois

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Posted: 24 October 2013 10:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Mriana - 21 October 2013 06:56 PM
DarronS - 17 October 2013 09:06 AM

George, try sleeping when it is 90 F at 10 p.m. I’ll take the Nordic countries in 20 years over Texas.

That I don’t mind so much, but sun at 10 pm would make it difficult to sleep.

You can always get blackout shades or curtains and/or wear a sleep mask. People who work third shifts, such as medical workers, manage to sleep during daylight hours.

Lois

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Posted: 25 October 2013 03:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Lois - 24 October 2013 10:09 AM
GdB - 23 October 2013 01:57 AM
mid atlantic - 22 October 2013 11:16 PM

I’ve never been, but they supposedly have high suicide rates?

Canada might be a better choice.

Except Finland… don’t bother.

Suicides per 100,000

Finland     16.9 
(2011)
USA         12.0 (2009)
Norway      11.9 (2011)N
Canada      11.5 
(2009)
Denmark     11.3 (2010)
Sweden      11.1 (2010)
Switzerland 11.1 (2009)
Netherlands  8.8 (2010

Excerpt from here. (I took Switzerland and the Netherlands on it because I am Dutch but living in Switzerland). I only know I like the Danish and Swedes very much, but that are just holiday experiences.

Anyone have a guess as to why Finland is so high and the Netherlands so low?

Lois

In Finland’s case, there’s the Finno-Ugrian suicide hypothesis; I have a link but the program says it’s spam. In short, the hypothesis states that people from Finno-Ugric backgrounds could have a genetic predisposition to suicide.

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Posted: 25 October 2013 07:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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mid atlantic - 25 October 2013 03:26 AM
Lois - 24 October 2013 10:09 AM
GdB - 23 October 2013 01:57 AM
mid atlantic - 22 October 2013 11:16 PM

I’ve never been, but they supposedly have high suicide rates?

Canada might be a better choice.

Except Finland… don’t bother.

Suicides per 100,000

Finland     16.9 
(2011)
USA         12.0 (2009)
Norway      11.9 (2011)N
Canada      11.5 
(2009)
Denmark     11.3 (2010)
Sweden      11.1 (2010)
Switzerland 11.1 (2009)
Netherlands  8.8 (2010

Excerpt from here. (I took Switzerland and the Netherlands on it because I am Dutch but living in Switzerland). I only know I like the Danish and Swedes very much, but that are just holiday experiences.

Anyone have a guess as to why Finland is so high and the Netherlands so low?

Lois

In Finland’s case, there’s the Finno-Ugrian suicide hypothesis; I have a link but the program says it’s spam. In short, the hypothesis states that people from Finno-Ugric backgrounds could have a genetic predisposition to suicide.


Hmm. Sounds unlikely to me. One way to prove or disprove the premise is to survey Finno-Ugric people who live outside Finland to see if their suicide rates are similar. If not, it’s something other than genetic.

Lois

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Posted: 25 October 2013 09:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Hmm, genetic predisposition? I for one am getting tired of hearing that. I can see it now…why do so many gay guys like Judy Garland? It’s been found they have a genetic predisposition!

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Posted: 25 October 2013 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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I agree, Cuthbert.  There has been so much human interbreeding over the centuries that it’s extremely doubtful that there is any localized genetic predispositions, especially any that are defined by national boundaries.  I’d guess that economic conditions and social pressures are the main factors in differences in suicide rates.

Occam

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Posted: 26 October 2013 03:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Lois - 25 October 2013 07:21 AM
mid atlantic - 25 October 2013 03:26 AM
Lois - 24 October 2013 10:09 AM
GdB - 23 October 2013 01:57 AM
mid atlantic - 22 October 2013 11:16 PM

I’ve never been, but they supposedly have high suicide rates?

Canada might be a better choice.

Except Finland… don’t bother.

Suicides per 100,000

Finland     16.9 
(2011)
USA         12.0 (2009)
Norway      11.9 (2011)N
Canada      11.5 
(2009)
Denmark     11.3 (2010)
Sweden      11.1 (2010)
Switzerland 11.1 (2009)
Netherlands  8.8 (2010

Excerpt from here. (I took Switzerland and the Netherlands on it because I am Dutch but living in Switzerland). I only know I like the Danish and Swedes very much, but that are just holiday experiences.

Anyone have a guess as to why Finland is so high and the Netherlands so low?

Lois

In Finland’s case, there’s the Finno-Ugrian suicide hypothesis; I have a link but the program says it’s spam. In short, the hypothesis states that people from Finno-Ugric backgrounds could have a genetic predisposition to suicide.


Hmm. Sounds unlikely to me. One way to prove or disprove the premise is to survey Finno-Ugric people who live outside Finland to see if their suicide rates are similar. If not, it’s something other than genetic.

Lois

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugrian_suicide_hypothesis

I can post it now.

The Finno Ugric peoples don’t only live in Finland, though. They’re scattered around central-eastern Europe and northwest Asia. According to the linked data, all the Finno Ugric peoples have a higher rate of suicide, compared to their neighbors.

[ Edited: 26 October 2013 03:47 AM by mid atlantic ]
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Posted: 26 October 2013 03:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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CuthbertJ - 25 October 2013 09:01 AM

Hmm, genetic predisposition? I for one am getting tired of hearing that. I can see it now…why do so many gay guys like Judy Garland? It’s been found they have a genetic predisposition!

They do have a genetic predisposition to identify with troubled women, didn’t you hear? wink

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Posted: 26 October 2013 03:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Occam. - 25 October 2013 04:21 PM

I agree, Cuthbert.  There has been so much human interbreeding over the centuries that it’s extremely doubtful that there is any localized genetic predispositions, especially any that are defined by national boundaries.  I’d guess that economic conditions and social pressures are the main factors in differences in suicide rates.

Occam

But what gives the ability to survive those conditions and pressures if not genes?

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Posted: 26 October 2013 10:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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mid atlantic - 26 October 2013 03:38 AM
Lois - 25 October 2013 07:21 AM
mid atlantic - 25 October 2013 03:26 AM
Lois - 24 October 2013 10:09 AM
GdB - 23 October 2013 01:57 AM
mid atlantic - 22 October 2013 11:16 PM

I’ve never been, but they supposedly have high suicide rates?

Canada might be a better choice.

Except Finland… don’t bother.

Suicides per 100,000

Finland     16.9 
(2011)
USA         12.0 (2009)
Norway      11.9 (2011)N
Canada      11.5 
(2009)
Denmark     11.3 (2010)
Sweden      11.1 (2010)
Switzerland 11.1 (2009)
Netherlands  8.8 (2010

Excerpt from here. (I took Switzerland and the Netherlands on it because I am Dutch but living in Switzerland). I only know I like the Danish and Swedes very much, but that are just holiday experiences.

Anyone have a guess as to why Finland is so high and the Netherlands so low?

Lois

In Finland’s case, there’s the Finno-Ugrian suicide hypothesis; I have a link but the program says it’s spam. In short, the hypothesis states that people from Finno-Ugric backgrounds could have a genetic predisposition to suicide.


Hmm. Sounds unlikely to me. One way to prove or disprove the premise is to survey Finno-Ugric people who live outside Finland to see if their suicide rates are similar. If not, it’s something other than genetic.

Lois

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugrian_suicide_hypothesis

I can post it now.

The Finno Ugric peoples don’t only live in Finland, though. They’re scattered around central-eastern Europe and northwest Asia. According to the linked data, all the Finno Ugric peoples have a higher rate of suicide, compared to their neighbors.


It’s still only a hypothesis.  It’s interesting enough to investigate further, though. There may be confounding factors not yet considered.

Lois

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Posted: 26 October 2013 10:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Lois - 24 October 2013 10:09 AM
GdB - 23 October 2013 01:57 AM
mid atlantic - 22 October 2013 11:16 PM

I’ve never been, but they supposedly have high suicide rates?

Canada might be a better choice.

Except Finland… don’t bother.

Suicides per 100,000

Finland     16.9 
(2011)
USA         12.0 (2009)
Norway      11.9 (2011)N
Canada      11.5 
(2009)
Denmark     11.3 (2010)
Sweden      11.1 (2010)
Switzerland 11.1 (2009)
Netherlands  8.8 (2010

Excerpt from here. (I took Switzerland and the Netherlands on it because I am Dutch but living in Switzerland). I only know I like the Danish and Swedes very much, but that are just holiday experiences.

Anyone have a guess as to why Finland is so high and the Netherlands so low?

Yep. Marijuana has been legal in Holland for many years. Happiness and good-will abounds in the Netherlands.

Lois

[ Edited: 27 October 2013 11:36 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 27 October 2013 09:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Lois - 24 October 2013 10:09 AM

Anyone have a guess as to why Finland is so high and the Netherlands so low?

Just a guess: when countries get over-organised, suicide rates increase compared to slightlier more chaotic and liberal countries in which not everything has its place and you must do something to find your place. You need the right dose of ingredients… A bit of care, a bit of existential security, a bit of freedom, etc etc.

Don’t ask me for empirical support for this idea.

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