5 of 5
5
Good resources for understanding atheism
Posted: 05 February 2014 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  464
Joined  2013-12-20
Lois - 05 February 2014 01:17 PM

Negative atheism can also be called vegetarianism, and it would make as much sense.  Agnosticism is a position on knowledge, and atheism—even “negative atheism” is a position on belief.  You can’t change the meaning of a word by adding an adjective to it. Atheism alone or with a qualifier means “without belief in God,” and agnosticism means “without knowledge” (throw in ” without knowledge of god.” I won’t complain), but, IMO, never the twain shall meet.

If you really want a word for someone who believes there is no god, you should come up with another word that doesn’t contradict or redefine atheism.

Lois

That distinction really helps.

Coming from a religious background, atheists are sometimes described there in the most negative terms possible, which I think includes a belief among some religious people that atheists are all committed to “killing” god.

I don’t have any objective knowledge of there being a god, but that doesn’t describe me as a person.

I don’t belong to any organized belief system that holds there is a clearly defined supreme being that watches over and controls our lives, that does help define me as a person.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 February 2014 10:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2602
Joined  2012-10-27
Fuzzy Logic - 05 February 2014 03:33 PM
Lois - 05 February 2014 01:17 PM

Negative atheism can also be called vegetarianism, and it would make as much sense.  Agnosticism is a position on knowledge, and atheism—even “negative atheism” is a position on belief.  You can’t change the meaning of a word by adding an adjective to it. Atheism alone or with a qualifier means “without belief in God,” and agnosticism means “without knowledge” (throw in ” without knowledge of god.” I won’t complain), but, IMO, never the twain shall meet.

If you really want a word for someone who believes there is no god, you should come up with another word that doesn’t contradict or redefine atheism.

Lois

That distinction really helps.

Coming from a religious background, atheists are sometimes described there in the most negative terms possible, which I think includes a belief among some religious people that atheists are all committed to “killing” god.

I don’t have any objective knowledge of there being a god, but that doesn’t describe me as a person.

I don’t belong to any organized belief system that holds there is a clearly defined supreme being that watches over and controls our lives, that does help define me as a person.

Atheists are not committeed to killing god, since we know we can’t kill something we don’t believe exists. If we are out to kill anything it’s irrational belief. That DOES exist. But KILLING is too harsh a word. We are out to encourage people understand the difference between reality and fantasy because, in our opinion, their lives would change for the better. Is that such a terrible thing?

The fact that you don’t believe in a clearly defined supreme being that watches over and controls our lives, is a step in the right direction, but believing even in an ill-defined supreme being is still a fantasy, and you could come up with a more clearly defined being at any moment, to your detriment, IMO.

Lois

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 February 2014 07:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  464
Joined  2013-12-20
Lois - 05 February 2014 10:11 PM

Atheists are not committeed to killing god, since we know we can’t kill something we don’t believe exists. If we are out to kill anything it’s irrational belief. That DOES exist. But KILLING is too harsh a word. We are out to encourage people understand the difference between reality and fantasy because, in our opinion, their lives would change for the better. Is that such a terrible thing?

No it’s not at all, I found working through the myths around my own religion enlightening in a way that the faith never was. Now I get a great deal of meaning out of learning about the natural world from a fact not faith based perspective.

I see religion as emotionally and intellectually disabling and reason as an antidote to that.

The fact that you don’t believe in a clearly defined supreme being that watches over and controls our lives, is a step in the right direction, but believing even in an ill-defined supreme being is still a fantasy, and you could come up with a more clearly defined being at any moment, to your detriment, IMO.

Lois

The more I learn about how interconnected everything is through studying biology, chemistry and physics, the less I need something “extra” to feel my place in the universe. It’s an ongoing process, but that’s the nature of life and the universe itself.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 February 2014 06:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5551
Joined  2010-06-16

And as I’ve said before, I’m neither an atheist or an agnostic, but rather a nontheist.

May as well muddy the waters a bit more. LOL

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 February 2014 07:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4811
Joined  2007-10-05
Occam. - 07 February 2014 06:08 PM

And as I’ve said before, I’m neither an atheist or an agnostic, but rather a nontheist.

May as well muddy the waters a bit more. LOL

Occam

I’m with you, Occam.

 Signature 

“In the beginning, God created the universe. This has made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.”
Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 February 2014 09:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2602
Joined  2012-10-27
Fuzzy Logic - 06 February 2014 07:14 PM
Lois - 05 February 2014 10:11 PM

Atheists are not committeed to killing god, since we know we can’t kill something we don’t believe exists. If we are out to kill anything it’s irrational belief. That DOES exist. But KILLING is too harsh a word. We are out to encourage people understand the difference between reality and fantasy because, in our opinion, their lives would change for the better. Is that such a terrible thing?

No it’s not at all, I found working through the myths around my own religion enlightening in a way that the faith never was. Now I get a great deal of meaning out of learning about the natural world from a fact not faith based perspective.

I see religion as emotionally and intellectually disabling and reason as an antidote to that.

The fact that you don’t believe in a clearly defined supreme being that watches over and controls our lives, is a step in the right direction, but believing even in an ill-defined supreme being is still a fantasy, and you could come up with a more clearly defined being at any moment, to your detriment, IMO.

Lois

The more I learn about how interconnected everything is through studying biology, chemistry and physics, the less I need something “extra” to feel my place in the universe. It’s an ongoing process, but that’s the nature of life and the universe itself.

Congratulations. You’re on the right track, IMO.

Lois

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 February 2014 09:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2602
Joined  2012-10-27
Occam. - 07 February 2014 06:08 PM

And as I’ve said before, I’m neither an atheist or an agnostic, but rather a nontheist.

May as well muddy the waters a bit more. LOL

Occam

Let me see if I’ve got this right:  You don’t believe a god exists and you don’t believe one does not exist and you also don’t know whether a god exists or does not exist? Have I summed that up correctly! In other words you take no position on the existence of god at all.  How about Zeus or Olympus or Allah or many gods?

Lois

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 February 2014 01:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5551
Joined  2010-06-16

Nope, that’s not it, Lois.  The concept of Occam’s Razor defines the reasoning.  One does not introduce ideas into any problem or situation which does not contribute to its solution.  My life decisions are not in any way affected by the god concept, positive or negative, so I feel it’s a waste of time to even bother introducing it into my thinking. 

If someone wants to talk about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, god, the Tooth Fairy, Zeus, Allah, etc. and I have nothing else to do at the moment, I might be willing to talk with them, but as far as my behavior and thinking go, I can’t be bothered contaminating my consciousness with such irrelevant concepts.

Does that clear it up, Lois?

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 February 2014 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2011
Joined  2007-08-09
Occam. - 09 February 2014 01:54 PM

One does not introduce ideas into any problem or situation which does not contribute to its solution.  My life decisions are not in any way affected by the god concept, positive or negative, so I feel it’s a waste of time to even bother introducing it into my thinking. 

. . . .

Occam

That is an excellent statement. I’ve been saying it for quite some time but not quite from that angle. I will now.

 Signature 

I cannot in good conscience support CFI under the current leadership. I am here in dissent and in support of a Humanism that honors and respects everyone.

Profile
 
 
   
5 of 5
5