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33% say evolution did not happen
Posted: 02 January 2014 10:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 02 January 2014 10:44 AM

Yeah, I just elaborated on what you said, but CC’s post #10 pretty well sums it up for me and is far more descriptive (and prosaic BTW) than I could post. What we as educators need to teach is not just the nuts and bolts of evolution but the scope and wonder of the process leading to our environment and ulitmately to us and our place within it. That’s one aspect of Native culture I adopted in my own life. The more I study the evolutionary process, the more intriguing it becomes. that’s really why I like Dawkins’ books.

Cap’t Jack

Well you and CC are the exceptions I hinted at.  You find it interesting. You guys like science.
I’m also a proponent of evolution.  Not because it really fascinates me, but because the scientific truth of it is an integral part of an ideological struggle.
By all means if you can develop a way to make science more interesting in school then I’m all for it.
However, like I’ve said before in other threads-Education doesn’t need to improve, the impetus for education needs to change/improve.
Industry(in the most broadest term possible), or even culture(in the broadest terms possible) are the Mother of Education.
Not the other way around.
We have the educational system we need(deserve?) all the time. It’s always at maximum efficiency.

As a side note, and I hesitated to include this, I believe that polls or references like this only go to further alienate people.
Learn how to popularize evolution.  The reactionaries relish the fact that “elitists” and “intelligentsia” look down on the population for not knowing about evolution.

This last is the fundamental key behind my response to this thread. It’s ok if people don’t know about evolution. It really is ok.
People don’t need “evolution” in their daily lives. Except you and CC… grin

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Posted: 02 January 2014 11:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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VYAZMA - 01 January 2014 12:51 PM
Lois - 01 January 2014 12:31 PM

Nor can an average person do anything without it. Maybe join the Tea Party and a fundamentalist religion. That’s about it.

I prefer to know as much as I can about what’s happening around me and is affecting me.  I suppose many people are happy to live in ignorance.  They should be permitted that preference unless it adversely and directly affects the life of others.

Lois

I’m behind your emotion. I agree with that.  But making the Tea Party connection is not correct.
There’s no direct correlation behind people caring about evolution and anything else.  It’s apathy that’s all.
And it’s no different then people being apathetic about car repair or quantum physics.

Your making an unfair line in the sand in regards to people. People on both sides of your perceived line are apathetic about evolution.
And that’s ok.
Plus there’s a difference between being apathetic about evolution and not accepting evolution as fact.  A big difference.

Maybe so. But I think a person who reaches adulthood without understanding the importance and reality of evolutionary theory is more likely to join a movement like the Tea Party. Or maybe it’s just generally apathetic people who are likely to join.  I’d be happy to be proven wrong.  It would improve my view of humanity.

Lois

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Posted: 02 January 2014 11:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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VYAZMA - 02 January 2014 08:43 AM
Thevillageatheist - 01 January 2014 07:40 PM

Yes I totally agree with you VA.  It’s mostly apathy. Why wouldn’t it be?
We are science and learning people more or less.(me much less…) Obviously we are focused on these polls and on the concept of evolution itself.
But what does the idea of evolution do for most people on a day to day basis?  Nothing. It does nothing for me either.  And I know about it!

I agree to a point Vy, here in America we value free thought and the ability to pursue whatever interests us, we generally do anyway but I believe that everyone should be made aware of the scientific concept of evolution apart from the fairytale story about god, mud, ribs, and the talking snake. beyond that it’s pretty much up to the individual to further pursue the theory and it’s intricacies. My point was aimed at making the theory of evolution accessible to everyone that each person may decide for themselves how they wish to use the info without the nebulous biblical interpretation. So yes I guess you could say that the “don’t knows” are apathetic and would rather talk about who’s the top player in the NBA or what NSACAR driver has the most wins (always a big topic here) rather than paleoanthropology. It’s up to them to decide, personally I can’t see why they wouldn’t be excited abut the latest archeological finds but that’s my opinion and everybody has one!


Cap’t Jack

Yes VA, and that’s exactly what I said in my post.  I said everyone should be taught it in school and have to get the usual, acceptable
passing grades in order to graduate.

I agree. The student wouldn’t have to accept it as true, just demonstrate a knowledge of how it works, what brought scientists in every branch of science to accept it, why and how the sciences have depended on it for further research and how it supports later developments. If a student wants to refute that, it would be an educational opportunity for him or her to be expected to present a reasoned refutation against it.

Lois

[ Edited: 02 January 2014 11:32 AM by Lois ]
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Posted: 02 January 2014 11:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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VYAZMA - 01 January 2014 02:07 PM
Occam. - 01 January 2014 01:57 PM

I don’t know, but I think the bases for that may be a bit different.  Then, there wasn’t nearly as much communication about science so many weren’t even aware of most of what was going on.  Starting with the atomic bomb in 1945 science became much more publicized so more poople are aware of it, but I’m not sure they’re interested in learning about any of it.

Occam

Yeah, you’re right. The basis for that probably has changed.
I think lot’s of people are probably not interested in science.  I don’t think they should have to be.

If they really aren’t interested in science, what is driving them to form radical opinions about it?


vyazma also wondered, “But what does the idea of evolution do for most people on a day to day basis?  Nothing. It does nothing for me either.  And I know about it!”

It doesn’t do much beyond making the person appear intelligent. It’s a distinct advantage when the subject comes up at a gathering.  Of course, if it’s a gathering of dolts, it won’t have much effect.


Lois

[ Edited: 02 January 2014 04:04 PM by Lois ]
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Posted: 02 January 2014 12:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Lois - 02 January 2014 11:35 AM

The Village Atheist wondered: “But what does the idea of evolution do for most people on a day to day basis?  Nothing. It does nothing for me either.  And I know about it!”

Lois

That was me that wondered that Lois. That’s my quote.

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Posted: 02 January 2014 12:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Lois - 02 January 2014 11:35 AM

If they really aren’t interested in science, what is driving them to form radical opinions about it?

Lois

You know the answer to that Lois. Obviously churches are high up on the list.
But my post a few spaces up elaborates on that.
I believe it helps to further alienate people(thus causing them to care even less about science) by using polls and the like to highlight some perceived deficiency or absence of intelligence in a population segment.
I say perceived because like I said, the vast majority of people don’t need to incorporate evolution in their daily lives.

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Posted: 02 January 2014 01:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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You know the answer to that Lois. Obviously churches are high up on the list.
But my post a few spaces up elaborates on that.
I believe it helps to further alienate people(thus causing them to care even less about science) by using polls and the like to highlight some perceived deficiency or absence of intelligence in a population segment.
I say perceived because like I said, the vast majority of people don’t need to incorporate evolution in their daily lives.

In all honesty Vy, most people don’t give a crap about the poll because they haven’t read it. As you stated, they don’t care because it has no effect on their lives or World views. Most people just put their heads down and plow through life as best as they can with little thought as to evolution, history, philosophy, or higher math. In short, “if I don’t need it to survive then what the hell”. IMO, like Jefferson I still believe in giving everyone a chance to explore facts rather than dismissing life with a bunch of fairytales and a self deprecating philosophy that leads them to believe that their fate is sealed in a dead end job with no hope until the afterlife they’ve been promised. Knowing the facts, forming their lives around truth could be helpful. At least they might see their fate could change if they wanted it to,but we’ve discussed that in another thread and I don’t want to segue into another discussion about free will. Yeah, I can’t live without it because it’s a challenge and pretty close to an obsession and part of my daily life. I liked being informed on many subjects, others don’t and that’s their right and privilege and I do respect that right as long as it doesn’t impact me directly or indirectly.

 

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 02 January 2014 01:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Well VA it’s not just the poll.  It’s lot’s of stuff..Like Darwin Fish on Volvos for example.
Or court cases, or newspaper articles, or defiant teachers in school who refuse to teach it. Or who stray from the curriculum and offer their own opinions.  Lot’s of stuff.

Many of the people who are apathetic about are probably at least slightly aware of it’s controversy.

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Posted: 02 January 2014 02:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 02 January 2014 01:31 PM

In all honesty Vy, most people don’t give a crap about the poll because they haven’t read it. As you stated, they don’t care because it has no effect on their lives or World views. Most people just put their heads down and plow through life as best as they can with little thought as to evolution, history, philosophy, or higher math. In short, “if I don’t need it to survive then what the hell”.
Cap’t Jack

Well said Cap’t.

That’s why they are so pliable in the hands of religious “Shepherds”, Hollywood and corporate power-politics PR specialists.

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Posted: 02 January 2014 04:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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VYAZMA - 02 January 2014 12:03 PM
Lois - 02 January 2014 11:35 AM

The Village Atheist wondered: “But what does the idea of evolution do for most people on a day to day basis?  Nothing. It does nothing for me either.  And I know about it!”

Lois

That was me that wondered that Lois. That’s my quote.

Ok, I’m sorry. i thought it was you, then couldn’t find the original quote. I see that The Village Atheist was quoting you.  Credit where credit is due.

I’ve fixed my original post.


Lois

[ Edited: 02 January 2014 04:05 PM by Lois ]
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Posted: 02 January 2014 05:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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The Theory of Evolution underlies modern biology, good luck finding cures for many illnesses by pretending that DNA, and Epigenetics don’t function in the way we’re learning they do.

I think at some point it’s going to take more effort to pretend that Evolution doesn’t exist than it takes to accept it widely.

Understanding man’s place in nature much better also helped drive the scientific revolution that gave us Special Relativity, General Relativity and Quantum Theory, the last allows us to communicate the way we are now. Science isn’t a pick-and-choose endeavour, advances in one area often lead to advances in others the whole thing is a synthesis. Trying to control the process weakens the entire structure, maybe that’s one reason why Evolution get’s picked for attack by some groups that would seem to like to roll back intellectual development to a point where they’re more comfortable. It’s a key underpinning of modern intellectual understanding.

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Posted: 02 January 2014 09:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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VYAZMA - 02 January 2014 01:44 PM

Well VA it’s not just the poll.  It’s lot’s of stuff..Like Darwin Fish on Volvos for example.
Or court cases, or newspaper articles, or defiant teachers in school who refuse to teach it. Or who stray from the curriculum and offer their own opinions.  Lot’s of stuff.

Many of the people who are apathetic about are probably at least slightly aware of it’s controversy.

My Darwin Fish is on my 5-year-old Honda. wink

Lois

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Posted: 02 January 2014 09:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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My Darwin Fish is on my 5-year-old Honda.

Mine is on my eight year old Ford Escape.  grin


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 06 January 2014 10:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 01 January 2014 07:17 AM

It would be interesting if a poll could reveal what motivated their uncertainty. e.g. Was it religiously motivated, out of ignorance or apathy. I’m inclined to believe the latter. We need more science classes and fully trained teachers in public education as a start.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/21329204.html


Cap’t Jack

Agreed. I can’t wait when people stop saying “It’s just a theory”. 
If one wants to attack evolution, they should be at least be a little more scientific.

We also need more things like this (apologies for some of the long links, but my computer often report them as spam if I try an other way)

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/misconceps/IVAandreligion.shtml

Science and religion around the World       Oxford Univ. Press page 163, 166-167

http://books.google.ae/books?id=W6HPW1TodZwC&pg=PA163&dq=old+ulama+class+has+an+accommodative+approach+and+harmonious+attitude+in+presenting+new&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kujAUuHhFJHMsga_5oGgAQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=old ulama class has an accommodative approach and harmonious attitude in presenting new&f=false

http://books.google.ae/books?id=W6HPW1TodZwC&pg=PA166&dq=claimed+could+be+seen+as+compatible+with+a+Muslim+cosmology+and+faith+in+the+created+world&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CejAUuOqKsWXtAaY-oGwBQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=claimed could be seen as compatible with a Muslim cosmology and faith in the created world&f=false

http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-437-3448.htm

[ Edited: 06 January 2014 10:05 AM by I.J. Abdul Hakeem ]
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Posted: 11 January 2014 08:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Well I.J. Abdul Hakeem, I finally got to looking at those sites and I was very un-impressed>

What’s any of that got to do with the price of tea in China?  Or “evolution” to be more specific.
~ ~ ~

I’m curious what does “evolution” mean to you and for god sake please don’t sent me to more religious sites.

I really am curious - when someone talks about the long march of evolution on this planet what does that mean to YOU?

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