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33% say evolution did not happen
Posted: 12 January 2014 10:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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VYAZMA - 12 January 2014 01:37 PM
citizenschallenge.pm - 12 January 2014 01:01 PM

*Willful ignorance and that faith-based rejection of the fundamentals of evolution science - both planetary and biological, (which are actually more intertwined that people suspect) - and the general public oblivious attitude towards what we are doing to our planet’s life-support system.

I’ll ask you too CC, do you know the difference between rejection(willful ignorance) and apathy?  Try to stay within at least a few miles of my points.

I’ll try to stay off my “soap box” and keep it simple:


When an educated crowd of people listen to someone rattling off a list of transparent and known deceptions -
and cheer that person along - while doing everything in their power to avoid learning about “the rest of the story”
that crosses the line between Apathy and Willful Ignorance.

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Posted: 12 January 2014 10:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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VYAZMA - 12 January 2014 01:46 PM

How do you go about getting people to be interested in global warming CC?  Evolution?

That is a much tougher question and a source of increasing hopelessness.

How do you change a person’s up-bringing?

With every year I’m increasingly amazed at my good fortune in having intelligent, curious, nature appreciating (specially mom) parents - Growing up in Chicago I was exposed to all the museums, also quite a few classical music concerts and Sunday drives, and the Sand Dunes of Beverly Shores, etc, etc. {Oh, and the multi-culturalism of being German-American when Chicago still had a strong German community - so I always knew there was more that the USA out there in the big world.}  My curiosity was fed all the time.  What if my parents never took me/us to those places, or if I lived where nothing like that was around, etc, etc. - I sure won’t be who I am today.

Most people have been fed a steady diet of mind numbing hollywood and consumerism and religion twisted by a shrewd political machine.  How can that be turned around?

Especially, considering that instead of a healthy sense of curiosity, desire to learn and a sense of love for this planet that sustains us -
everyone is relearning their Tribalism and honing their self-righteous outrage, as they stock up on guns and practice blowing heads off targets.


I’m afraid we had too much too fast - and now all that remains is watching the slowly unfolding avalanche.
I haven’t always been so bad, but considering we, as a society, have failed all of our tests so far, hope is getting tougher and tougher to rally.

[ Edited: 12 January 2014 10:34 PM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 13 January 2014 12:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 12 January 2014 10:00 PM
VYAZMA - 12 January 2014 01:37 PM
citizenschallenge.pm - 12 January 2014 01:01 PM

*Willful ignorance and that faith-based rejection of the fundamentals of evolution science - both planetary and biological, (which are actually more intertwined that people suspect) - and the general public oblivious attitude towards what we are doing to our planet’s life-support system.

I’ll ask you too CC, do you know the difference between rejection(willful ignorance) and apathy?  Try to stay within at least a few miles of my points.

I’ll try to stay off my “soap box” and keep it simple:


When an educated crowd of people listen to someone rattling off a list of transparent and known deceptions -
and cheer that person along - while doing everything in their power to avoid learning about “the rest of the story”
that crosses the line between Apathy and Willful Ignorance.

Whoopie doo….Learn how to read CC.  I’m not talking about willful ignorance.
Go back and read my posts before using them as a jump off point for some rant!!

Page one….I’m talking about people who are apathetic about evolution.

Are you trying to say there aren’t people who are apathetic about evolution?

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Posted: 13 January 2014 12:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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Well the 66% didn’t see it happen.  LOL

psik

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Posted: 13 January 2014 12:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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VYAZMA - 12 January 2014 12:16 PM
Lois - 11 January 2014 10:03 PM

Evolution does affect all of us on a day-to-day basis. If it weren’t for evolution we would have almost no effective medicines, no vaccinations and almost no knowledge of genetics.  Anyone who rejects evolution knows nothing about evolution. It is proven to exist every day in laboratories and is the bedrock of biology.

Yet millions of people are getting along just fine by being apathetic about it.
Probably because they are not the ones developing the medicines or doing the research.

“Evolutionary processes give rise to diversity at every level of biological organisation, including species, individual organisms and molecules such as DNA and proteins.” Wikipedia
Try doing without it. 

How would I go about trying to do without it?

It’s theism alone that leads people to reject evolution.  It’s theism that interferes with scientific understanding. People who reject evolution reject humanity and science.

Lois

Do you know the difference between rejecting and apathy?

Sure, but in the end it has the same result.

Lois

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Posted: 13 January 2014 12:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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psikeyhackr - 13 January 2014 12:25 PM

Well the 66% didn’t see it happen.  LOL

psik

Yes….in a nutshell. That’s exactly it.

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Posted: 13 January 2014 01:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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Lois - 13 January 2014 12:28 PM

Sure, but in the end it has the same result.

Lois

Yeah….no doubt.

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Posted: 17 January 2014 11:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 12 January 2014 10:32 PM
VYAZMA - 12 January 2014 01:46 PM

How do you go about getting people to be interested in global warming CC?  Evolution?

That is a much tougher question and a source of increasing hopelessness.

How do you change a person’s up-bringing?
..........

Most people have been fed a steady diet of mind numbing hollywood and consumerism and religion twisted by a shrewd political machine.  How can that be turned around?

Especially, considering that instead of a healthy sense of curiosity, desire to learn and a sense of love for this planet that sustains us -
everyone is relearning their Tribalism and honing their self-righteous outrage, as they stock up on guns and practice blowing heads off targets.

We live in what Neil Postman calls “Technopoly” age.  Characteristic of this is our inability to properly analyze information.
http://www.amazon.com/Technopoly-The-Surrender-Culture-Technology/dp/0679745408

The need to be critical of information, regardless of whether your a thiest or not, has to be brought back.
There was one Stanfrord University advisor who studied in traditional West African education in addition to doing graduate studies in the US.
He has interesting things to say about modern education
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUjV0wuUoxU

 

 

citizenschallenge.pm - 11 January 2014 08:56 PM

~ ~ ~

I’m curious what does “evolution” mean to you and for god sake please don’t sent me to more religious sites.

 

The first three references I gave were not religious websites.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/misconceps/IVAandreligion.shtml

This was from the website of the Univ of California.

 

http://books.google.ae/books?id=W6HPW1TodZwC&pg=PA163&dq=old+ulama+class+has+an+accommodative+approach+and+harmonious+attitude+in+presenting+new&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kujAUuHhFJHMsga_5oGgAQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=old ulama class has an accommodative approach and harmonious attitude in presenting new&f=false

http://books.google.ae/books?id=W6HPW1TodZwC&pg=PA166&dq=claimed+could+be+seen+as+compatible+with+a+Muslim+cosmology+and+faith+in+the+created+world&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CejAUuOqKsWXtAaY-oGwBQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=claimed could be seen as compatible with a Muslim cosmology and faith in the created world&f=false

These were from the book
Science and religion around the World     Oxford Univ. Press page 163, 166-167
http://www.amazon.com/Science-Religion-Around-Hedley-Brooke/dp/0195328205


only the last one was a religious website, edited by Saudi theologian.

citizenschallenge.pm - 12 January 2014 10:32 PM

I really am curious - when someone talks about the long march of evolution on this planet what does that mean to YOU?

The same as expressed in the above sources. Namely that they don’t contradict religion and that they

are matters of purely historical or scientific interests and are not questions of faith.

http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-437-3448.htm

[ Edited: 17 January 2014 11:55 AM by I.J. Abdul Hakeem ]
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Posted: 17 January 2014 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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I.J. Abdul Hakeem - 17 January 2014 11:51 AM
citizenschallenge.pm - 12 January 2014 10:32 PM

I really am curious - when someone talks about the long march of evolution on this planet what does that mean to YOU?

The same as expressed in the above sources. Namely that they don’t contradict religion and that they

are matters of purely historical or scientific interests and are not questions of faith.

http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-437-3448.htm

Sorry tells me absolutely nothing about what you think.

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Posted: 17 January 2014 11:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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Looks pretty clear to me V -

citizenschallenge.pm - 12 January 2014 10:00 PM
VYAZMA - 12 January 2014 01:37 PM
citizenschallenge.pm - 12 January 2014 01:01 PM

*Willful ignorance and that faith-based rejection of the fundamentals of evolution science - both planetary and biological, (which are actually more intertwined that people suspect) - and the general public oblivious attitude towards what we are doing to our planet’s life-support system.

I’ll ask you too CC, do you know the difference between rejection(willful ignorance) and apathy?  Try to stay within at least a few miles of my points.

I’ll try to stay off my “soap box” and keep it simple:


When an educated crowd of people listen to someone rattling off a list of transparent and known deceptions -
and cheer that person along - while doing everything in their power to avoid learning about “the rest of the story”
that crosses the line between Apathy and Willful Ignorance(rejection).

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Posted: 17 January 2014 12:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 17 January 2014 11:58 AM

When an educated crowd of people listen to someone rattling off a list of transparent and known deceptions -
and cheer that person along - while doing everything in their power to avoid learning about “the rest of the story”
that crosses the line between Apathy and Willful Ignorance(rejection).

Yeah.  I was talking about apathy, not willful ignorance or rejection.

Apathetic people would not be in the crowd cheering CC.
I was talking about apathy towards evolution…I don’t know what you’re talking about.
I really don’t care either. Just stop misrepresenting my points please.

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Posted: 17 January 2014 01:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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VYAZMA - 01 January 2014 11:05 AM

People don’t care about evolution..and they shouldn’t have to if they don’t want to. After learning it in school of course and graduating all the classes with acceptable grades. After that…let them pursue their interests and goals. And obviously your average person can’t do anything with the knowledge of evolution.

You’re the one that joined this thread, stop being so touchy,
and what you said in your first post, I find naive.
and we’ve gone off from there.


I make no claim to knowing “what” you think,
I can only deal with the impress your words leave behind.

Oh and I was trying to make my thinking clear as opposed to defining your thinking.

[ Edited: 17 January 2014 01:22 PM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 17 January 2014 01:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 17 January 2014 01:20 PM

You’re the one that joined this thread, stop being so touchy,
and what you said in your first post, I find naive.
and we’ve gone off from there.

What’s naive about it?
My statement(paraphrasing): Most(over 85% of all people-that’s a low ball est.)
people have no use for the application of knowledge about evolution.
The vast majority of people have no need or desire to familiarize themselves with evolution.

What’s naive about that?
And why should they have to? For ideological reasons?
If it’s for ideological reasons, that’s one of the reasons why people are apathetic about it.
I’ve discovered that a vast amount of people like to learn about “the natural world” without strings attached.
If they want to learn about it at all.

If it’s just to be a science nerd..well, some folks aren’t interested in science. Is that wrong?

But you tell me…what’s naive about that. Please.

[ Edited: 21 January 2014 01:25 PM by VYAZMA ]
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Posted: 17 January 2014 09:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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edit
{hmmm, who knows what the formatting issue is all about. 
I tried cleaning it up a bit - but haven’t changed any of the wording.
It was a ramble, stuff I’m wrestling with and I’m good with letting it be.}

VYAZMA - 17 January 2014 01:42 PM

What’s naive about it?
My statement(paraphrasing):
Most (over 85% of all people-that’s a low ball est.) people have no use for the application of knowledge about evolution.

The vast majority of people have no need or desire to familiarize themselves with evolution.

~ ~ ~
It’s your assumption that people have no use for a deeper understanding of evolution,
that seems naive to me.
Just cause they don’t recognize it, don’t mean it hasn’t caused profound damage.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

VYAZMA - 17 January 2014 01:42 PM

What’s naive about that?

And why should they have to? For ideological reasons? 
If it’s for ideological reasons,
that’s one of the reasons why people are apathetic about it.

~ ~ ~
This one’s wide open, a question for your question: 
Is having a realistic sober understanding of the world you inhabit an ideological question?

You tell me.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

VYAZMA - 17 January 2014 01:42 PM

I’ve discovered that a vast amount of people like to learn about “the natural world” without strings attached.
If they want to learn about it at all.

~ ~ ~
I’ve discovered most people in our society are absolutely mesmerized by the boobtube,
computer screens, pro sports and all that endless fashion show and the media buzz. 
They don’t care to think past the faux-news and all the varied magazines they devour like candy. 

You are right, if they think about “nature” all they want is a Post Card: ‘spare me all the details, thank you very much…’

The trouble is that such superficiality has many negative cascading effects. 
To use just one aspect, take our housing -
most people couldn’t careless about all the things it takes to make that switch on the wall light up the room,
or what it takes to supply their water, coming and going, or what keeps the rain and snow out of the house. 
So we wind up with homes build for profit and presentation rather than living and long term maintaining. 
Don’t believe me, just gotta poke around. 

Me?, I’ve seen, and done repairs on, plenty of buildings and homes that have many elements that simply don’t make sense
in light of their exposure to weather and wind.  Like being set up for failure, so we have deteriorating homes before they reach 21.

A better community-wide appreciation for how nature works -
particularly the part about working within constraints and reusing components.
Or regarding some major homeowner issue - respecting the way water flows and collects,
and the way the seasonal sun impacts a home
would have resulted in substantial pragmatic improvements in how homes were built.

But, no!  Instead we got grown up architects and developers and salespeople selling homes in snow country
with north facing pitched roofs aimed right on top of drive ways and garage doors. 
Or, all those beautiful gables and dormers that create packed snow and ice conditions
you could climb with axes and crampons. 
Or the roof avalanche that took out a perfectly targeted deck. 
And plumbing systems that can’t be easily drained, etc.,etc. 
Crazy poop like that is directly connected to that general professional and
societal disconnect from how the natural world functions
and how we could benefit from accommodating those factors.

Having a good understanding of our planet’s incredible pageant of evolution
and the various milestones along the way would instill a better appreciation for how the real world functions -
this in turn would help people make less disastrous mistakes both large scale and small scale.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

VYAZMA - 17 January 2014 01:42 PM

If it’s just to be a science nerd..well,
some folks aren’t interested in science. Is that wrong?
But you tell me…what’s naive about that. Please.

~ ~ ~
Is it wrong?  Who knows!  What I do know, is that in the long run, it’s suicidal. 
You can’t increase consumption for ever.

The naive part is in believing we can deal with our geophysical world
and the reality of a global warming future without understanding how our planet got to this stage in its evolution.

The attitude you seem to represent may well be the “winner” in this human race and all that. 
But, that sure don’t make it the best way.
In fact, those grand ideas have paved the way to many failed opportunities… a few too many I fear. 

From here on in, I fear we’ll all get to watch how our thoughtless greed has destroyed the goose that laid the golden egg.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

[ Edited: 18 January 2014 09:29 PM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 18 January 2014 11:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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I can’t read this thread anymore.  It’s all out of whack. 
It’s gotten wider than my screen.

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