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We’re Running out of water
Posted: 03 February 2014 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 136 ]
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Occam. - 03 February 2014 10:43 AM

I think what Lois was referring to was that as the title stands it allowed some to go off the topic that was meant and argue about the total quantity of water on earth.  And that happened.

It’s probably better to be precise than try to play games to get people to participate.

Occam

I doubt TVA was trying to play game: he just omitted the word “potable.” As for people going off topic and arguing semantics, that is a common tactic among those who know they can’t win on the merits of their argument.

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Posted: 03 February 2014 11:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 137 ]
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True, but why make it easier for them?  smile

Occam

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Posted: 03 February 2014 11:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 138 ]
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I think what Lois was referring to was that as the title stands it allowed some to go off the topic that was meant and argue about the total quantity of water on earth.  And that happened.

It’s probably better to be precise than try to play games to get people to participate.

Occam

Not playing a game Occam, just generating interest. And it seems that I accomplished my goal. You are after all post #135.


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Posted: 03 February 2014 11:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 139 ]
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That wasn’t really the point, TVA.  Do you think there would have been fewer meaningful posts if “potable” had been added to the title?

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Posted: 03 February 2014 02:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 140 ]
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That wasn’t really the point, TVA.  Do you think there would have been fewer meaningful posts if “potable” had been added to the title?

Occam

Yes, but you caught me. I was being purposefully deceptive. I’ll never let it happen again. No more sensationalism to enhance a point. Just the facts, no embellishment.  downer


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Posted: 03 February 2014 02:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 141 ]
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I’m disappointed in that TVA, but glad you learned your lesson.

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Posted: 03 February 2014 02:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 142 ]
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I’m disappointed in that TVA, but glad you learned your lesson.

Well, Occam did have a point that I hadn’t reckoned, with and hey sometimes it’s hard to defend an indefensible point even though it did open an avenue for further discussion. Hopefully a few people did sit up and take notice even if the science was purposively flawed.


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Posted: 05 February 2014 11:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 143 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 03 February 2014 02:12 PM

I’m disappointed in that TVA, but glad you learned your lesson.

Well, Occam did have a point that I hadn’t reckoned, with and hey sometimes it’s hard to defend an indefensible point even though it did open an avenue for further discussion. Hopefully a few people did sit up and take notice even if the science was purposively flawed.


Cap’t Jack

Hold on there Cap’t, easy up on the capitulation “even if the science was purposively flawed”  Come on, it was a title.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

But it’s true, titles can be very important. 

For example recently I finished an essay, that I’d been mulling for over half year (heck for years).  I played with it for a couple months, started ugly as hell, couldn’t find a hook, went through many stages.  In fact, I had to write another essay to set the stage for this one. But it was an important article for me since it involved others serious geology work.  With deadline counting down, I made a u-turn, coming at it from a totally unexpected angle.  Finally, I pulled it off and came up with an essay I feel really good about… amazed at, even - consider what it looked like a few days earlier.

Sent it into the …., where the editor has always done me proud.  Her editorial style is light and she understands what I’m trying to say so her changes have consistently been improvements and lessons for me.  I finally get the issue and open it to find my article… (incidentally, it’s the editor who puts the titles on these columns)  “The Magic That Made The Mountains”  it was like getting punched in the belly, demoralizing is the descriptive that keeps coming to mind.  Drained the fun right out of the thing.  I can’t even get myself to read through it carefully to find and review her edits, which I always do.  I haven’t even gotten around to sending copies to the two scientists in question, it’s too depressing.  All because of the god awful disgusting title.

If you’re curious see:
Ancient Landscapes in Motion
http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2013/12/ancient-landscapes-in-motion.html

[ Edited: 05 February 2014 11:24 PM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 10 February 2014 11:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 144 ]
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OK getting this back on topic:

Hell of a book, it was frightening reading it years ago, and now it seems like we are standing at the brink.

EXPLODING SOUTHWEST POPULATION ON COLLISION COURSE WITH WATER SCARCITY
By Leon Kolankiewicz, CAPS Senior Writing Fellow


In his classic 1986 book, Cadillac Desert, the late author Marc Reisner argued that explosive population growth and development in the American Southwest were on an inevitable collision course with the fundamental hydrological realities of an implacably arid region.

Subtitled The American West and its Disappearing Water, Cadillac Desert presented the history of two powerful federal bureaucracies in the West: the Bureau of Reclamation and the Army Corps of Engineers. Both agencies are loved and loathed in equal measure. Reisner’s book chronicles their grand scheme to tame and harness wild water resources in the West—all in the service of relentless human ambition, first to settle this once nearly empty land and then to build upon it an ever greater and enduring empire. . . .

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Posted: 11 February 2014 03:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 145 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 03 February 2014 02:12 PM
I’m disappointed in that TVA, but glad you learned your lesson.

Well, Occam did have a point that I hadn’t reckoned, with and hey sometimes it’s hard to defend an indefensible point even though it did open an avenue for further discussion. Hopefully a few people did sit up and take notice even if the science was purposively flawed.


Cap’t Jack

Hold on there Cap’t, easy up on the capitulation “even if the science was purposively flawed”  Come on, it was a title.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

While I’ll freely admit my mistake here my purpose was to draw attention to pollution and the problem still persists. Now parents are being warned that their infants shouldn’t be allowed to drink the water. My cousin lives in the area and she and her family are still drinking bottled water. She said that the smell still lingers in their plumbing (licorice smell) and schools in the area are cautioned to use bottled for a while longer. Remember that this was one, one chemical spill from one of many factories in that area and all because of sloppy inspection and lax EPA standards due arguments over state sovereignty. And if this is happening in our area what must it be like nationwide? People here believe in a Deus Ex Machina. Somehow the “government” (whatever that is) will miraculously take care of the problem so they’ll just suck down the free bottled water and wait, and that concept can be expanded to include national issues as well. So yeah I’m a tree hugger. I admit that too. Fresh water is my favorite drink. Lincoln called it “Adam’s Ale”.


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Posted: 11 February 2014 10:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 146 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 11 February 2014 03:34 AM

Thevillageatheist - 03 February 2014 02:12 PM
I’m disappointed in that TVA, but glad you learned your lesson.

Well, Occam did have a point that I hadn’t reckoned, with and hey sometimes it’s hard to defend an indefensible point even though it did open an avenue for further discussion. Hopefully a few people did sit up and take notice even if the science was purposively flawed.


Cap’t Jack

Hold on there Cap’t, easy up on the capitulation “even if the science was purposively flawed”  Come on, it was a title.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
K

While I’ll freely admit my mistake here my purpose was to draw attention to pollution and the problem still persists. Now parents are being warned that their infants shouldn’t be allowed to drink the water. My cousin lives in the Oarea and she and her family are still drinking bottled water. She said that the smell still lingers in their plumbing (licorice smell) and schools in the area are cautioned to use bottled for a while longer. Remember that this was one, one chemical spill from one of many factories in that area and all because of sloppy inspection and lax EPA standards due arguments over state sovereignty. And if this is happening in our area what must it be like nationwide? People here believe in a Deus Ex Machina. Somehow the “government” (whatever that is) will miraculously take care of the problem so they’ll just suck down the free bottled water and wait, and that concept can be expanded to include national issues as well. So yeah I’m a tree hugger. I admit that too. Fresh water is my favorite drink. Lincoln called it “Adam’s Ale”.

Cap’t Jack

Nice if you can actually get “fresh water.” just about all of it is recycled fom sources we don’t want to think about. The point is—and you made it very well—we are poisoning what little potable water we have.

Another thought: why do we fight fires with drinking water? For that matter, why do we flush toilets and wash cars with drinking water?

Lois

[ Edited: 11 February 2014 03:31 PM by Lois ]
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Posted: 11 February 2014 11:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 147 ]
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Lois - 11 February 2014 10:11 AM

Another thought: why do we fight fires with drinking water? For that matter, why do we flush toilets and wash cars with drinking water?

Lois

It would require another infrastructure to supply another type of water.  It would be rather expensive.  Fires don’t happen often enough to make it worth it.

I suppose planes and helicopters that pick up water could get sea water but I don’t think it would be a good idea to put that water on land where we expect plants to grow.

psik

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Posted: 11 February 2014 03:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 148 ]
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psikeyhackr - 11 February 2014 11:01 AM
Lois - 11 February 2014 10:11 AM

Another thought: why do we fight fires with drinking water? For that matter, why do we flush toilets and wash cars with drinking water?

Lois

It would require another infrastructure to supply another type of water.  It would be rather expensive.  Fires don’t happen often enough to make it worth it.

I suppose planes and helicopters that pick up water could get sea water but I don’t think it would be a good idea to put that water on land where we expect plants to grow.

psik

Actually they do that in Southern California and maybe other places close to the ocean. I suppose the salt water does interfere with plant growth, but here it is mostly brush, anyway. They also put some kind of fertilizer in the water. When it’s first dropped it shows up red. I don’t think they drop it on houses or built up areas or on farmland.

I wonder if they could do it with Great Lakes water, too, thought it’s most useful for large brush fires in mountains and canyons as we have in Southern California.

I can see that having two types of water piped in would be expensive, but wonder if it would be worthwhile in Southern California coastal areas and similar areas.. People around large lakes, such as the Great Lakes,  might have it piped in for firefighting and toilets. It wouldn’t solve the problem of drinking water contamination and availability but it might make a dent in it. I’m not an engineer so I don’t know how that might be done practically, though I think it might be started on a small scale with new construction.

Lois

[ Edited: 11 February 2014 03:34 PM by Lois ]
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Posted: 11 February 2014 06:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 149 ]
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I can see that having two types of water piped in would be expensive, but wonder if it would be worthwhile in Southern California coastal areas and similar areas.. People around large lakes, such as the Great Lakes,  might have it piped in for firefighting and toilets. It wouldn’t solve the problem of drinking water contamination and availability but it might make a dent in it. I’m not an engineer so I don’t know how that might be done practically, though I think it might be started on a small scale with new construction.

You do have a point though about using potable water for many other purposes. Our local fire departments rely on the river (Ohio) for their water. Even though it’s fresh it must be filtered through local filtration plants before it can be used for drinking. No one would ever even attempt to drink it without chlorination and filtration, as it’s far too contaminated by river boats and chemical plants. there was a time however… . Also notice that nearly every major city in the U.S. is located near a water source, either salt or fresh, and they all have filtration systems.


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Posted: 13 February 2014 10:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 150 ]
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Hmmm, this might interest some of you . . .

State of the Planet Mission
http://stateoftheplanet.org/about/


The State of the Planet Conference, held every two years by Columbia University’s Earth Institute, assesses the state of global, natural and human systems in order to identify those factors central to achieving sustainable development. The conference brings together insights from the world’s most influential and innovative thinkers in a wide range of academic fields, including the earth sciences, engineering sciences, biological sciences, health sciences, and social sciences, with those from opinion leaders in the media, government and the policy community.

03/28/13
http://stateoftheplanet.org/program/


8:00 AM     Registration Opens
9:00 AM     Opening and Announcements,
Laura Trevelyan, BBC World News America
9:10 AM     Welcome,
Jeffrey D. Sachs,
The Earth Institute, Columbia University
9:20 AM     Keynote Presentation
Good Derivatives: Water, The Next Frontier
Richard Sandor, Environmental Financial Products LLC
9:40 AM     The World at Risk: Water Scarcity

How can we provide fresh water to meet the food and energy needs of 9 billion people?

Moderated by Laura Trevelyan
John Briscoe, Harvard University
Mark Cane, Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory
Upmanu Lall, Columbia Water Center
Brian Richter, The Nature Conservancy
10:20 AM     Solutions from the field (Skype)

Raman Ahuja, Independent Advisor (formerly working with Unilever, FieldFresh Foods & Firmenich S.A.), India
10:30 AM     Safe Water in Developing Countries

Moderated by Laura Trevelyan
Vijay Modi, Columbia University
Jeffrey D. Sachs, The Earth Institute
11:00 AM     Solutions from the Field (Skype)

Francisco de Assis de Souza Filho, Columbia Water Center, Brazil
11:10 AM     The Role of Corporations: Promoting Partnerships to Provide Access to Clean, Safe Water

Moderated by Jeffrey D. Sachs
Richard Delaney, PepsiCo Inc.
Sue Tsokris, PepsiCo Foundation
11:40 AM     Event Ends

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