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The Republican battle-cry: Hate Environmentalists, then ridicule and ignore
Posted: 14 January 2014 12:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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sine dues - 14 January 2014 07:21 AM

I am pleased with fuzzy logic’s fuzzy logic. He makes some nice points and screws up royally on others…human.
He lays out the argument for me….we humans have way less impact ( lasting ) on this planet than the popular opinion of this last decade.
EVERYTHING changes….constantly yet you want to blame humans…not all…. just Republicans….for wrecking this lovely planet. Stop waving your arms…... the planet is fine….and will be fine regardless of the way humans live their little lives.
You may not like my opinion but it has as much validity as the doomsday prophesy….which always seems to be around the next corner…..watch your step !
Pull your head out and breath some fresh air…take a look at the sunshine. It is nice in one part of the world and it is not nice in another….it is cold for some hot for others…..you will not pass laws to stop this.

We human have had a huge impact on this Earth starting with the introduction of wet agriculture almost 10,000 years ago. One of the reasons this interglacial period has been so stable climate wise in relation to previous ones is probably due to the effect of methane introduced into the atmosphere from rice a taro cultivation in the east. It has buffered us from some of the fluxations seen in the climate records, but this has limits.

CO2 is the most important persistent greenhouse gas and is strongly absorptive in the 14 micron band, right in the main curve of the EM spectrum emitted by the Earth, it isn’t absorptive in the shorter wavelengths that make up sunlight. The result is a growing radiative imbalance that has to result in the warming of the overall global system and past records show us what happens when the Earth goes through rapid warming events, the seas can turn anoxic and create the perfect conditions for sulfur loving bacteria which give off hydrogen sulfide, a poisonous gas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event

Oceanic anoxic events or anoxic events occur when the Earth’s oceans become completely depleted of oxygen (O2) below the surface levels. The similar term euxinia refers to anoxic conditions in the presence of H
2S hydrogen sulfide. Although anoxic events have not happened for millions of years, the geological record shows that they happened many times in the past. Anoxic events may have caused mass extinctions.[1] These mass extinctions include some that geobiologists use as time markers in biostratigraphic dating. It is believed[2] oceanic anoxic events are strongly linked to lapses in key oceanic current circulations, to climate warming and greenhouse gases.

We’re currently responsible for emitting over 10 billion tons of CO2 every year, something that isn’t really all that “natural” in the sense that no other life form on the planet has had such a significant effect on the atmosphere in such a short period of time. Since the mid 1800s CO2 levels have gone from about 280 ppm to almost 400 ppm. In slightly more than 150 years we’ve had the same effect that it took natural systems thousands or even hundreds of thousands of year to create, are you seriously claiming that as humans we get some sort of ecological waiver that allows us to anything we like with no negative effects.

The world is going to be around, but if human activities continue on the same or worse pace then many species simply won’t be part of the natural world and that most likely won’t include us when you consider how frail human civilization really is and how dependent most people are on modern conditions to survive.

The Dow Jones doesn’t monitor the actual physical health of the planet, something some people have a very difficult time accepting, things like the Dow and other indexes don’t even reflect economic health as we’ve seen repeatedly over the last several decades. And yet the naysayers keep claiming we’re on some path to materialistic glory if we just keep doing the same thing over and over again. Einstein had an interesting observation for people who do that and I think it applies equally well to entire societies that choose faith in unsupported beliefs over hard evidence.

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Posted: 14 January 2014 01:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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sine dues - 14 January 2014 09:31 AM

citizen- I spend a bit of time googling…...can you see all the destruction that rain does ? Do you blame humans for rain ? Can you see the destruction caused by earthquakes ? do you believe humans cause earthquake ?.....volcanoes ? You don/t follow my argument very well. I am stating that none of the problems caused by humans has a global effect. Global warming is not the simple thing made out in the MEDIA. Climate science is in it’s infancy and is off to a shaky start due to being spoiled by chicken little spending.

The amount of water vapour in the atmosphere is affected by air temperature, by increasing the amount of the persisent gas carbon dioxide the way we have average air temperatures have increased and so has the average amount of water being carried in the air. The reason there has been so much more serious flash flooding in the world in recent years is the ability of air masses to deliver much more precipitation much more rapidly almost certainly due to the increase in CO2 in the atmosphere which is linked directly back to burning billions of tons of fossil fuels over the last 200 or so years. Right now over 6 billion tons of coal are consumed annually worldwide. The amazing thing would be if we could do such a reckless thing and have no effect.

What a joke….the term climate skepticism….like I doubt climate. I don’t think that we can predict the behavior of a dynamic non-linear system. If you wish to believe that you can go ahead. In the past….as in a couple of hundred millions of years the climate has been changing…in a NON predictable way…yet all of the sudden we think that we can predict it…...far too short term data…..don’t give me crap about dendro-chornology because the experts in that field understand that the noise is larger or equal to the signal…..time to take a breath and allow another couple of sun cycles to happen before wasting money on a problem we can’t correct.
Wow what a ranting fool I am.
Thank-you for putting up with my opinions….however far out there they may be…..

Climate is weather averaged over long periods of time, it may be impossible to predict weather more than a week or so ahead of time, but the longer timescale of climate study smooths out the variations which will tend towards a mean, so it is possible to predict with some confidence where a system will end up due to radiative forcings. For instance it’s likely the polar ice sheets will begin to break down between 350-550 ppm of atmospheric CO2. And ocean-atmosphere coupled systems will begin to undergo phase shifts as the way heat is transferred within the system changes. Most of the additional heat being loaded into the global system by the positive forcing caused by human emitted greenhouse gases is going into the oceans where it will almost certainly change systems like ENSO, PDO and NAO that can have a significant effect on weather and eventually climate globally.

We don’t need to wait until it’s too late to do anything to predict serious consequences from forcing the global radiative balance into a hotter state, we just have to look at the physical evidence of what will happen if we continue to force the global environment into a new state at a pace much faster that it or we can adjust to. The work goes back almost 200 hundred years to Fourier, then Tyndall and then Svante Arrhenius who calculated with fairly good accuracy what would occur if the atmospheric CO2 was doubled, and that was in the late 1800s. Climate science is a very mature science, which is why contrarians have to go to such extremes to counter it, including what amounts to book burning here in Canada.

[ Edited: 14 January 2014 01:10 PM by Fuzzy Logic ]
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Posted: 14 January 2014 02:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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psikeyhackr - 14 January 2014 12:28 PM

Let’s build a Death Star and prove the planet can survive anything.  LOL

psik

That’s no moon…

Take care,

Derek

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Posted: 14 January 2014 08:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Occam. - 14 January 2014 11:55 AM

Of course the earth will survive, but that’s not the point.  It has survived a number of major extinctions.  The problem is that our species has been so successful that we began changing the environment faster than it could change back about a hundred years ago, and that change is accelerating rapidly.  We’re setting ourselves up for another major extinction, and we may well be part of the species that disappear or at least become minor like the left over reptiles are now.

Occam


Here are two sobering viewpoints, one is delivered as comedy with some factual liberties

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c (warning crude language)

and this more detailed and factual analysis of the reasons why at least the majority of the human race is in peril of extinction.

The Sixth Extinction

http://www.actionbioscience.org/newfrontiers/eldredge2.html

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Posted: 14 January 2014 08:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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fuzzy logic,

CO2 is the most important persistent greenhouse gas and is strongly absorptive in the 14 micron band, right in the main curve of the EM spectrum emitted by the Earth, it isn’t absorptive in the shorter wavelengths that make up sunlight. The result is a growing radiative imbalance that has to result in the warming of the overall global system and past records show us what happens when the Earth goes through rapid warming events, the seas can turn anoxic and create the perfect conditions for sulfur loving bacteria which give off hydrogen sulfide, a poisonous gas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anoxic_event

There are several species which will survive such a calamity.
Probably some insects, which seem to be able to adapt to almost anything you can throw at them . Here is link to an old but still relevant expose of insects, probably the oldest complex adaptable life forms. do watch all 10 segments and you will never see insects in the same way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R8UN9zGD04&list=PLFFBDAA61C9D27454

And several deep ocean species, such as “black smokers” which already live in a sulphur rich environment.

The hot water is very rich in sulfur and very poor in oxygen; as it hits the ocean water, black sulfur-rich mineral grains form a cloud. This picture of a black smoker was taken from a submarine (the Alvin), just barely visible at the bottom right. The hot spring water has made solid tubes that stick straight up from the sea floor; the “black smoke” is on top of the tube in the center of the picture.

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/slidesets/marslife/slide_30.html

Not all hope is lost. Life will continue, it just won’t be human.

[ Edited: 15 January 2014 02:47 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 15 January 2014 10:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Write4U - 14 January 2014 08:43 PM

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/slidesets/marslife/slide_30.html

Not all hope is lost. Life will continue, it just won’t be human.

Any of you folks familiar with
Professor Robert M. Hazen -

“The Story of Earth”
http://hazen.gl.ciw.edu/publications/books
also
The Great Courses series - Origins of Life
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1515

Fun stuff about earliest biological processes, along with details about the developing science along with a review of the various schools of thought.

Amazing stuff.  Fun stuff.

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Posted: 15 January 2014 10:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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And the whole pageant regarding how mineral development was intimately intertwined with organic development.

It’s a shame these wonders of discovery aren’t available or interesting to people.

We have drunk the KoolAid called Reaganomics who’s bottom line was/is/remains
Greed is Good
Too Much Is Never Enough
Maximize consumption, as though the Earth has no limits,

stupid, stupid, stupid.

Don’t have to believe me,
just stick around and watch.

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Posted: 15 January 2014 10:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 15 January 2014 10:04 PM

The Great Courses series - Origins of Life
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1515

Don’t let the price tag scare you, many libraries have these available, if not on site, then through inter-library loan.

grin

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Posted: 16 January 2014 04:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Thanks for thelinks CC.

I’ll check them out, for sure.

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