Thoughts on Socialism and the Pirates
Posted: 16 January 2014 03:17 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I’m really into politics these last days I must say. Now that my “holiday sobbings” are over I’m looking for food for thought again, and what better place than politics. Well, there’s other places, right now I’m looking at politics.

I’m a registered Libertarian, just in case you care to know (joined them a few years ago in a fit of anger after my dear county here really slammed me because of a drunken incident I’m not very proud of, but still, I thought the response was way overblown). Anyway, a few months into my membership though I began to worry that I had joined the hyper-capitalists, never mind their good ideas on social issues. I’m still a member, because it looks good on the card not to be one of the two or simply independent, but I might eventually change it.

A movement that caught my eye, an international movement actually, is the Pirate Party. There’s no chapter in Florida and I won’t move to New York, but is there anybody out there familiar with the Pirates? Are they a party that might get on the ballot? - I know, I could just ask them, but I like forums, plus they might get some exposure.

The Pirates seem like a reasonable movement for our times, something I can’t entirely say about socialism, but I still can’t get my youthful, left-wing ideas out of my head.

What’s your take on Socialism (democratic socialism, not authoritarian nonsense) and the not-yet-well-platformed Pirates?

Any opinions out there that might help my political framework?

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Posted: 16 January 2014 06:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I have weekly lunches that include three Libertarian friends.  I can agree with many of their social views, but certainly not their economic policies.  My ideal structure would be a representative democracy with a great many government supplied services and an economic system of a STONGLY controlled capitalism.  All citizens should have an equal voice in government; wealth should not give one a more powerful voice.  Taxation should be structured such that no one is poor and no one is extremely wealthy. 

Such is my fantasy that I guess I’ll pour myself a glass of wine and watch television now. LOL

Occam

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Posted: 16 January 2014 07:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I have weekly lunches that include three Libertarian friends.  I can agree with many of their social views, but certainly not their economic policies.  My ideal structure would be a representative democracy with a great many government supplied services and an economic system of a STONGLY controlled capitalism.  All citizens should have an equal voice in government; wealth should not give one a more powerful voice.  Taxation should be structured such that no one is poor and no one is extremely wealthy. 

Such is my fantasy that I guess I’ll pour myself a glass of wine and watch television now.

Occam

Now that’s a system I could live with, with emphasis on the word Strongly. now, you’re not going to watch “Duck Dynasty” with that wine are you? If you do I suggest white. grin


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 17 January 2014 01:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 16 January 2014 07:36 PM

I have weekly lunches that include three Libertarian friends.  I can agree with many of their social views, but certainly not their economic policies.  My ideal structure would be a representative democracy with a great many government supplied services and an economic system of a STONGLY controlled capitalism.  All citizens should have an equal voice in government; wealth should not give one a more powerful voice.  Taxation should be structured such that no one is poor and no one is extremely wealthy. 

Such is my fantasy that I guess I’ll pour myself a glass of wine and watch television now.

Occam

Now that’s a system I could live with, with emphasis on the word Strongly. now, you’re not going to watch “Duck Dynasty” with that wine are you? If you do I suggest white. grin

Cap’t Jack

Agree. ... Also on that wine thing smile

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Posted: 17 January 2014 01:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Occam. - 16 January 2014 06:57 PM

I have weekly lunches that include three Libertarian friends.  I can agree with many of their social views, but certainly not their economic policies.  My ideal structure would be a representative democracy with a great many government supplied services and an economic system of a STONGLY controlled capitalism.  All citizens should have an equal voice in government; wealth should not give one a more powerful voice.  Taxation should be structured such that no one is poor and no one is extremely wealthy. 

Such is my fantasy that I guess I’ll pour myself a glass of wine and watch television now. LOL

Occam

Great idea of a system indeed. - Yes, Libertarians have good ideas socially, but as far as the economy is concerned, they are worse than the Republicans.

Keeping capitalism under control, not letting things run wild, yes, I think that is very needed, as is a non-money-based election campaign. (I always give that dollar on my tax return, but I guess it goes nowhere.)

I think John Rawls had a great idea with his Theory of Justice, which makes me think of that T-Shirt, “The people who really know how to run this country are busy teaching in school”.

Enjoy the wine!

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Posted: 17 January 2014 02:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Michelle D. - 16 January 2014 03:17 PM

The Pirates seem like a reasonable movement for our times, something I can’t entirely say about socialism, but I still can’t get my youthful, left-wing ideas out of my head.

What’s your take on Socialism (democratic socialism, not authoritarian nonsense) and the not-yet-well-platformed Pirates?

Any opinions out there that might help my political framework?

You mean this Pirate party? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_(United_States)

IDK, I guess they are left libertarians. Some of their positions can have mass appeal.

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Posted: 17 January 2014 08:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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From what I’ve looked at this morning, seems like they are sort of a one issue group.

It comes down to this: the PPUS is looking to reform the way we think about copyright and trademark in this country, while simultaneously bringing some transparency back the government. That’s it. To that end, it wants to elect as many local, state, and national politicians as it can. Who knows, in 10 years maybe you—yes, you!—can run for Congress in your local district, and try to modernize the ancient ways in which we imagine ownership.
http://techcrunch.com/2009/09/10/we-talked-to-the-pirate-party-of-the-united-states-heres-what-its-all-about/

Hey and they’re out there in California too http://www.calpirateparty.org

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Posted: 17 January 2014 04:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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mid atlantic - 17 January 2014 02:07 AM
Michelle D. - 16 January 2014 03:17 PM

The Pirates seem like a reasonable movement for our times, something I can’t entirely say about socialism, but I still can’t get my youthful, left-wing ideas out of my head.

What’s your take on Socialism (democratic socialism, not authoritarian nonsense) and the not-yet-well-platformed Pirates?

Any opinions out there that might help my political framework?

You mean this Pirate party? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_(United_States)

IDK, I guess they are left libertarians. Some of their positions can have mass appeal.

Hi! ... The link didn’t get me on the right page I think, but I mean the International Pirate Movement, here in the U.S. they are the United States Pirate Party. They’re in many countries already, absent only in mainland Africa, not South Africa, and Muslim dominated countries. Even China has a Pirate movement. Some European countries have them already in the government, mainly as opposition, not very large.

They appear left-libertarian to me, which I’m fond of. Their website is uspirates.org.

I think it’s very appealing. Haven’t contacted them yet. Was wondering if someone here is a Pirate and can enlighten me. Yes, I think they could have mass appeal. They’re very global minded AND have international presence. That almost looks like a new political future to me. (But their platform is not done yet, so it is in its infancy.)

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Posted: 17 January 2014 04:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 17 January 2014 08:52 AM

From what I’ve looked at this morning, seems like they are sort of a one issue group.

It comes down to this: the PPUS is looking to reform the way we think about copyright and trademark in this country, while simultaneously bringing some transparency back the government. That’s it. To that end, it wants to elect as many local, state, and national politicians as it can. Who knows, in 10 years maybe you—yes, you!—can run for Congress in your local district, and try to modernize the ancient ways in which we imagine ownership.
http://techcrunch.com/2009/09/10/we-talked-to-the-pirate-party-of-the-united-states-heres-what-its-all-about/

Hey and they’re out there in California too http://www.calpirateparty.org

Hi! ... Yes, the main thing, one-issue-thing, that seems to have started them was copyright. Apparently they call themselves Pirates because it started over internet piracy. But they seem to have bigger things in mind for the future. I’m about to get in touch with them and find out more, as they are quite interesting.

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Posted: 17 January 2014 04:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Here it is, their “Name & Values”. I’ve read through it before and liked it, but then totally forgot about them again until last night. Since I got my voter registration mail I’m wondering if I should join them.

.... And should this be considered advertisement or proselytizing or whatever, just delete my post. No intention of doing that, but then, I am political.

1) We stand for open culture. No one should have the power to prevent the free exchange and expression of ideas, tools, or works.
 
2) We stand for transparency and openness. Government activities should not be hidden from the public.
 
3) We stand for individual privacy. The amount of oppression in a society is inversely proportional to its privacy protections. Individuals must be free to make personal decisions that do not harm another person.

4) We are anti-monopoly. No monopoly should be able to prevent works, tools, or ideas from: being freely used, expressed, exchanged, recombined, or taught; nor to violate individual privacy or human rights. A creator’s right to be compensated for their work or idea is only acceptable within these limitations.

5) We stand for individuals over institutions. Universal human rights apply only to human beings, and not to corporations, limited liability organizations, or other group entities.

6) We are a post-ideological values-based meritocracy. We place all options on the table. We choose a specific approach because the available evidence shows that it is the best way to promote our values. We do not make decisions based merely on tradition, popularity, authority or political expediency.

7) We are egalitarian. We believe in equality and a level playing field. We accept input from all sources, and we value all people equally.

8) We actively practice these values. We hold ourselves accountable for our own adherence to these principles.

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Posted: 17 January 2014 05:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I agree with all of the above, but it remains to be seen just what this new political group will eventually morph into in the future. it does seem to have an international appeal though and what a better way to spread an agenda than the Internet. Raising the “black flag” might catch the attention of the major parties who are just now being affected by the NSA backlash. Even conservative Americans have their collective hackles up over the whistle blowing.

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 17 January 2014 06:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Michelle D. - 17 January 2014 01:37 AM
Occam. - 16 January 2014 06:57 PM

“The people who really know how to run this country are busy teaching in school”.

Idunno. I get the feeling that the people who really know how to run this (or any other) country can mostly be found occupying bar stools and downing shots of Scotch or Jack Daniels with beer chasers. Or, in some cases, cutting hair. At least, that’s what they claim, and who am I to call them deluded?

I really like the sound of that Pirate Party, though…..

TFS

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Posted: 17 January 2014 07:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 17 January 2014 05:46 PM

I agree with all of the above, but it remains to be seen just what this new political group will eventually morph into in the future. it does seem to have an international appeal though and what a better way to spread an agenda than the Internet. Raising the “black flag” might catch the attention of the major parties who are just now being affected by the NSA backlash. Even conservative Americans have their collective hackles up over the whistle blowing.

Cap’t Jack

Good point, it leaves to be seen what this is all about. If it’s good though, I see great potential. And the Black Flag certainly touches.

I suppose a great many hackers are in this Pirate movement, so… bla, bla, bla, ... whatever I say they already know. NSA? smile

Did I just revert things? I love to do that, especially with myself, turn everything upside down and trash it. It’s fun. And intellectually stimulating.

We’ll see, if this group / movement / party is worth the salt I’m ready to join. ... I won’t poke my eye out to be a pirate, but I have trouble walking sometimes, so I guess I qualify smile

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Posted: 17 January 2014 07:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Theflyingsorcerer - 17 January 2014 06:12 PM
Michelle D. - 17 January 2014 01:37 AM
Occam. - 16 January 2014 06:57 PM

“The people who really know how to run this country are busy teaching in school”.

Idunno. I get the feeling that the people who really know how to run this (or any other) country can mostly be found occupying bar stools and downing shots of Scotch or Jack Daniels with beer chasers. Or, in some cases, cutting hair. At least, that’s what they claim, and who am I to call them deluded?

I really like the sound of that Pirate Party, though…..

TFS

Good point, and very reasonable. There’s more drunks with a sober mind than the sober-minded. The drunks just gave up. - I get your point, never mind, but there’s a lotta truth to that.

Hey, I’m getting Pirate-interested here.

Peace, my brother.

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Posted: 18 January 2014 12:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Saw an interesting interview on the John Stewart show about The Medical field and how it is exempted from the Free Market doctrines.

The author of a book (forgot his name) claims that in reality the patient who by no choice of his/her own becomes sick, he/she has no choices whatever, except perhaps in choice of physician, who basically compete only with “reputation”, but do not compete financially.
After that all choices are made outside the control of the patient; .

a) The doctor chooses and prescribes the appropriate medicine

b) The pharmacy fills the prescription without choice by the patient.

c) If a medicine is patentes, the patient has no choice of a competing substitute.

OTOH, without caps the Drug manufacturer can demand any price for a patented drug.

This is why prescription drugs are so much cheaper in Canada. Canada has placed caps on profit margins of prescription drugs and the manufacturer has the choice of serving a market of millions of people or not. Guess who wins. The market, even as it is r3egulated and capped. This of course is also practiced in Europe and that is why a well regulated medical market with caps on profit works for them.

You may call it socialism, but it benefits the general population and that is a Good thing and it does not seem to harm the service providers and drug manufacturers and that is a Good thing. 

Am I wrong?

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Posted: 18 January 2014 06:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Write4U - 18 January 2014 12:40 AM

Saw an interesting interview on the John Stewart show about The Medical field and how it is exempted from the Free Market doctrines.

The author of a book (forgot his name) claims that in reality the patient who by no choice of his/her own becomes sick, he/she has no choices whatever, except perhaps in choice of physician, who basically compete only with “reputation”, but do not compete financially.
After that all choices are made outside the control of the patient; .

a) The doctor chooses and prescribes the appropriate medicine

b) The pharmacy fills the prescription without choice by the patient.

c) If a medicine is patentes, the patient has no choice of a competing substitute.

OTOH, without caps the Drug manufacturer can demand any price for a patented drug.

This is why prescription drugs are so much cheaper in Canada. Canada has placed caps on profit margins of prescription drugs and the manufacturer has the choice of serving a market of millions of people or not. Guess who wins. The market, even as it is r3egulated and capped. This of course is also practiced in Europe and that is why a well regulated medical market with caps on profit works for them.

You may call it socialism, but it benefits the general population and that is a Good thing and it does not seem to harm the service providers and drug manufacturers and that is a Good thing. 

Am I wrong?

Good morning, Write4U,

I think you’re right. In cases like that government regulations are very needed and good, good for everybody. - Socialism is not a bad word to me. I like socialism. Not overlorded, authoritarian socialism, but socialism, well, that benefits everybody. That’s the whole idea.

I was very happy when Novartis I think it was lost a battle in court in India not too long ago. They lost their patent to save thousands with generic drugs. Don’t remember what it was for. - A friend, however, pointed out that they, Novartis, put a lot of money into the research that brought the drug about, so they want some return. And I think here the government should come in, as it does in the nations you mention. Of course the company doing the research must have an incentive, but not greed. It needs to be the good for everyone.

Sometimes I think I’m a lonely, lost little fly. I don’t think twice if someone asks me for something (unless I get the idea that they’re simply beginning to use me), I just give it if I have it, with the trust that I get something when I ask for it. To me that’s simple humanity. We’re all one. Why some people are so obsessed with getting more and more I just don’t understand. Maybe greed should be classified as a mental disorder.

Peace.

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