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Yale study and apathy over climate change… - why is consensus important?
Posted: 28 January 2014 05:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Sine, flooding in Calgary and Manitoba have nothing to do with a drought in California. Besides, what fruits and vegetables do we here in the States depend on from there? None. While I do sympathize with those Canadians affected by flooding, Darron’s not talking about conditions in Canada. This BTW is the same argument used by climate deniers; the arctic conditions this Winter prove that global warming is a hoax! No, it proves that the weather patterns have been altered by AGW and it’s now snowing in Atlanta while California is drying up and burning down. And because of this we’re all going to see a spike in food prices and experience shortages because we rely on California for much of our fruits and veggies:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2013/07/california_grows_all_of_our_fruits_and_vegetables_what_would_we_eat_without.html


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 28 January 2014 07:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 28 January 2014 05:36 PM

Sine, flooding in Calgary and Manitoba have nothing to do with a drought in California. Besides, what fruits and vegetables do we here in the States depend on from there? None. While I do sympathize with those Canadians affected by flooding, Darron’s not talking about conditions in Canada. This BTW is the same argument used by climate deniers; the arctic conditions this Winter prove that global warming is a hoax! No, it proves that the weather patterns have been altered by AGW and it’s now snowing in Atlanta while California is drying up and burning down. And because of this we’re all going to see a spike in food prices and experience shortages because we rely on California for much of our fruits and veggies:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2013/07/california_grows_all_of_our_fruits_and_vegetables_what_would_we_eat_without.html


Cap’t Jack

Our global heat distribution engine, it’s a fascinating ‘organism’:

Arctic Amplification (Extreme Weather):
Jennifer Francis June 6, 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY0RdXmLGdU

And this one, I believe every student in school, and out of school, ought to view:

Earth From Space HD / Nova
The groundbreaking two-hour special that reveals a spectacular new space-based vision of our planet. Produced in extensive consultation with NASA scientists, NOVA takes data from earth-observing satellites and transforms it into dazzling visual sequences, each one exposing the intricate and surprising web of forces that sustains life on earth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38peWm76l-U

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Posted: 28 January 2014 08:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Dead Monky - 28 January 2014 07:56 AM

Speaking only for myself, I’m apathetic about it largely because of two factors: priorities and burnout.  The former is easy to explain.  I simply have other, more immediate concerns to address before climate change becomes more than a vaguely dangerous future concern.  Things like bills, and employment concerns, and digging my way out of debt.  Until those are taken care of, I simply don’t care all that much about it.  The latter is because I’m sick of hearing about it.  Yeah yeah, it’s petty and irrational and blah blah blah.  But it is what it is.  Preach to human beings about something long enough, especially something that isn’t an immediate concern, and some of them will simply get sick of hearing about it and stop listening.

EDIT
Fixes

Good to see you around DM.

Yea, you nailed it and I imagine you speak for the vast majority of people.

I’m “fortunate”, besides being 58 with that career path behind me, I’m in a good place, financially quite modest, but no debts and no desires for material crap, my time is more precious than the shackles of keeping up with the jones, so I can afford to learn about, think about and worry about what is happening to this planet I am in love with. 

But, unlike religious folks, who can easily dissociate themselves from the reality of our planet being an actual physical entity,
including how the damages we, and our society, are inflicting is having increasing consequences and moving beyond our control, I can’t.
We have set ourselves on a path that will be inflicting ever greater insults on our climate system, biosphere ( read: life support system),
society’s infrastructures and psyche, which will in turn have it’s ugly cascading consequences. 
What to do… I have no idea, so far I’ll keep beating my drum, even with an increasingly hollow feeling in my heart. 
Why? because I’m appalled at the willingness of folks to repeat and believe complete and easily exposed lies. 

Although, I know, it don’t matter how many regular citizens “get it” - so long as those sociopathic oligarchs such as the Kochs, Murdoch and that “free-corporate-market” crowd don’t see the light… nothing at all will change and fools like us will cope best we can as the ship goes down.

[ Edited: 28 January 2014 09:06 PM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 28 January 2014 10:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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DarronS - 28 January 2014 01:21 PM
Dead Monky - 28 January 2014 07:56 AM

Preach to human beings about something long enough, especially something that isn’t an immediate concern, and some of them will simply get sick of hearing about it and stop listening.

Not an immediate concern? Are you not paying attention?

California drought spurs governor to declare an emergency

California drought has ranchers selling cattle

Historic California drought called red flag for future of US

California drought: Past dry periods have lasted more than 200 years

California drought could impact world food prices

Wake up, DM. The future is here.

The deniers will say that drought is simply a natural cycle and there is nothing we can do about it.  They will say there have been such droughts in the past, they have all passed and there is no reason to get our knickers in a twist over them. Some will say we shouldn’t have become dependent on farms in drought prone areas in the first place.

Lois

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Posted: 29 January 2014 07:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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I’m “fortunate”, besides being 58 with that career path behind me, I’m in a good place, financially quite modest, but no debts and no desires for material crap, my time is more precious than the shackles of keeping up with the jones, so I can afford to learn about, think about and worry about what is happening to this planet I am in love with. 

Amen to that CC! Same here, although I’m semi-retired. When you reach a certain age and are ready to wrap up your career, time becomes absolutely precious. In a sense that may be why we are better able to focus on these issues as we don’t have to stress and fret over what DM considers the important issues, like paying bills and raising kids. it was hard to balance political and social involvement with the everyday heads down and shoulder to the wheel reality of daily life. Being this age also gives you the ability to perceive change in a personal way. Trends make more sense, e.g. The article on the overall decline of religion mentioned in the Morning Heresy. As a child of the 50’s I remember the importance of and influence of religion on every media. It seemed that our culture (at least here in our area) was formed around religious functions and the politicians evoked god in every speech. Homosexuality and atheism were forbidden topics as was premarital sex. All in all it was a pretty repressed era. But I digress, a lot. Personally, I’m glad we’re living in a much more open society with progressive ideals despite those ultra conservatives who would like to drag us back to the time of “little boxes”, sexual repression, suppression of free thought and fundamentalist religious beliefs.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 29 January 2014 08:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Yup Cap’t.

I often think of the line, “it was the best of times, it was the worst of times”

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Posted: 29 January 2014 03:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 28 January 2014 05:36 PM

Sine, flooding in Calgary and Manitoba have nothing to do with a drought in California. Besides, what fruits and vegetables do we here in the States depend on from there? None. While I do sympathize with those Canadians affected by flooding, Darron’s not talking about conditions in Canada. This BTW is the same argument used by climate deniers; the arctic conditions this Winter prove that global warming is a hoax! No, it proves that the weather patterns have been altered by AGW and it’s now snowing in Atlanta while California is drying up and burning down. And because of this we’re all going to see a spike in food prices and experience shortages because we rely on California for much of our fruits and veggies:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2013/07/california_grows_all_of_our_fruits_and_vegetables_what_would_we_eat_without.html


Cap’t Jack

One point: flooding in Calgary and drought in California do have something to do with each other.  They are both most likely caused by the forces of global climate change and the melting of the polar ice cap. It causes climate volatility which results in drought, snowstorms, floods, and extreme temperatures, both hot and cold.

Lois

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Posted: 29 January 2014 03:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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sine dues - 28 January 2014 02:39 PM

Go back to your slumber darrons, You are sorely mistaken if you think that drought in California means that the earth is running out of water. People in Calgary and Manitoba have not forgotten about the deadly flooding that occurred there…..should they be spouting off about how there is too much water on the earth and that humans are the cause of all this extra water ? No.  The future is not here…The future is tomorrow…...only the present is here.

You apparently misunderstand climate volatility, which can mean all kinds of volatility, hot, cold, floods, drought. And those things happen in different parts of the world, even in different parts of the same country at the same time. There is no doubt in most climatologists’ minds that this volatility is caused or exacerbated by the effect of human overpopulation and human activity.

Lois

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Posted: 29 January 2014 06:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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One point: flooding in Calgary and drought in California do have something to do with each other.  They are both most likely caused by the forces of global climate change and the melting of the polar ice cap. It causes climate volatility which results in drought, snowstorms, floods, and extreme temperatures, both hot and cold.

You’re preachin’ to the choir Lois. Now explain this to the deniers who see the cold weather as irrefutable proof that AGW is a hoax perpetrated by socialists who want to destroy industries and kill jobs. Their ignorance leads them to believe that the cold snap is global. They don’t know (nor do they care obviously) that while it’s Winter here in the Northern Hemisphere it’s sweltering in the Southern. They’ll change their tune when Summer hits their area. California is already getting a taste of it. Some counties may be without water in a few months.

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 30 January 2014 01:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 29 January 2014 06:03 PM

One point: flooding in Calgary and drought in California do have something to do with each other.  They are both most likely caused by the forces of global climate change and the melting of the polar ice cap. It causes climate volatility which results in drought, snowstorms, floods, and extreme temperatures, both hot and cold.

You’re preachin’ to the choir Lois. Now explain this to the deniers who see the cold weather as irrefutable proof that AGW is a hoax perpetrated by socialists who want to destroy industries and kill jobs. Their ignorance leads them to believe that the cold snap is global. They don’t know (nor do they care obviously) that while it’s Winter here in the Northern Hemisphere it’s sweltering in the Southern. They’ll change their tune when Summer hits their area. California is already getting a taste of it. Some counties may be without water in a few months.

Cap’t Jack

I’m trying, Jack. This isn’t the only place I post. But there are some definite human caused climate change deniers even here. Not everyone is in the choir.

Lois

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Posted: 30 January 2014 04:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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I’m trying, Jack. This isn’t the only place I post. But there are some definite human caused climate change deniers even here. Not everyone is in the choir.

Good for you Lois, and keep up the fight. BTW, when I referenced the choir I meant me. Yeah there are a couple of deniers here but with the mounds of imperial evidence presented to the contrary on this site one wonders why they still cling to that belief because that’s what it is, a faith unsupported by facts.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 30 January 2014 09:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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DarronS - 28 January 2014 01:21 PM

Not an immediate concern? Are you not paying attention?

. . . . .

Wake up, DM. The future is here.

Maybe “future” was a poor word choice.  Perhaps “vague” or “nebulous” would have been better.

In any event, it’s still not much of a concern for me.  As I already stated, I have more pressing issues on my mind.  A bunch of floods and droughts hitting people 2,000 miles away really mean very little to me when you get right down to it.  Even if they were hitting here in Michigan (where it’s currently freaking freezing, Grodd I hate winter) I’m still not sure how much I would really concern myself with it.  I can’t control the weather and influencing corporate and government policy or public opinion is far beyond my individual control.  (And well outside the sphere of what motivates me.)  I tend not to get terribly worked up over things I can’t change.  Call it getting Zen or something as I grow older (or the years of insufficient dopamine and seratonin taking their toll and making me fatalistic LOL ), but as I said before: it is what it is.

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Posted: 30 January 2014 09:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 28 January 2014 08:53 PM

Good to see you around DM.

Yea, you nailed it and I imagine you speak for the vast majority of people.

I’m “fortunate”, besides being 58 with that career path behind me, I’m in a good place, financially quite modest, but no debts and no desires for material crap, my time is more precious than the shackles of keeping up with the jones, so I can afford to learn about, think about and worry about what is happening to this planet I am in love with. 

But, unlike religious folks, who can easily dissociate themselves from the reality of our planet being an actual physical entity,
including how the damages we, and our society, are inflicting is having increasing consequences and moving beyond our control, I can’t.
We have set ourselves on a path that will be inflicting ever greater insults on our climate system, biosphere ( read: life support system),
society’s infrastructures and psyche, which will in turn have it’s ugly cascading consequences. 
What to do… I have no idea, so far I’ll keep beating my drum, even with an increasingly hollow feeling in my heart. 
Why? because I’m appalled at the willingness of folks to repeat and believe complete and easily exposed lies. 

Although, I know, it don’t matter how many regular citizens “get it” - so long as those sociopathic oligarchs such as the Kochs, Murdoch and that “free-corporate-market” crowd don’t see the light… nothing at all will change and fools like us will cope best we can as the ship goes down.

I suppose when it comes down to the deniers, most of them fall into two broad groups.  There are those who really don’t think it’s occurring do to denial or cognitive intertia or what have you.  And those who know it’s happening and pretend like it isn’t do to ideology, self-interest, or any number of hundreds of other reasons you can think of.  Personally, I think most of them probably fall into the cognitive inertia group.  It’s just mentally easier to keep siding with what you already know.  Back in the day, it probably helped our ancestors most of the time.  Anymore, not always.

Also: Yo.  What up, Homes?

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Posted: 03 February 2014 08:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Dead Monky - 30 January 2014 09:47 AM

Also: Yo.  What up, Homes?

well… since you asked, life’s been good,
sweet lady, health is holding, great little cabin, beautify chunk of land I get to caretake rather than pay the mortgage on, my austerity diet both in food and movies is going to hell, (I still prefer a good documentary before 9 outta 10 movies) - but sacrifices must be made.   cool smile

Oh and I been raising some hell  wink

Dr. Richard Lindzen, scientist as fiction writer
http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2014/01/dr-lindzen-scientist-as-fiction-writer.html

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Posted: 03 February 2014 10:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Dead Monky - 30 January 2014 09:37 AM
DarronS - 28 January 2014 01:21 PM

Not an immediate concern? Are you not paying attention?

. . . . .

Wake up, DM. The future is here.

Maybe “future” was a poor word choice.  Perhaps “vague” or “nebulous” would have been better.

In any event, it’s still not much of a concern for me.  As I already stated, I have more pressing issues on my mind.  A bunch of floods and droughts hitting people 2,000 miles away really mean very little to me when you get right down to it.  Even if they were hitting here in Michigan (where it’s currently freaking freezing, Grodd I hate winter) I’m still not sure how much I would really concern myself with it.  I can’t control the weather and influencing corporate and government policy or public opinion is far beyond my individual control.  (And well outside the sphere of what motivates me.)  I tend not to get terribly worked up over things I can’t change.  Call it getting Zen or something as I grow older (or the years of insufficient dopamine and seratonin taking their toll and making me fatalistic LOL ), but as I said before: it is what it is.


The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke

I’d change that to

The only thing necessary for the disaster of Global Climate Change is for good people to do nothing (and to find specious justifications for it.)

Lois (you can quote me!)

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