hmmm, difference between climate science denialists and warmists
Posted: 11 February 2014 10:35 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I try to spare you folks from all the stuff I’m posting back at one of my blogs WUWTW.
But, this one I want to share - to see if there’s a conversation in it.

It sort of relates to that question : What Good Is Knowing About Evolution/

Tuesday, February 11, 2014

Open letter to John Nielsen-Gammon

The last couple days I’ve been catching up on some of Nielsen-Gammon’s articles and comments over at the Climate Change National Forum (more on them later) and I find myself struggling with the way he manages to frame all of his evidence and arguments.  And although it’s pretty much the same spiel I’ve listen to and struggled with understanding for the past couple decades, this time I think I’ve finally stumbled onto something important.
[I should be clear Nielsen-Gammon is not a denialist per sec, he is a respected scientist familiar with climatology - but what grabbed my attention was how his arguments were framed… and that led to this]

Here’s my open letter to John Nielsen-Gammon,

Dear JNG,
I read the things you write and seems to me you consistently micro-focus on obscure details.  You play with data and numbers and trumpet man’s inability to perfectly replicate Earth’s processes in a lab, or climate model.  Using those contrived arguments you tell folks, we have no worries.

I’m asking you to step back a little to consider your assumptions, perhaps reconsider your approach.

I want to suggest everything you {along with the usual AGW “skeptical” suspects} say springs forth from a weltanschauuing of supreme confidence in human ingenuity.  Including a faith that society’s only hope is in the free-corporate-market status quo being allowed to run it’s course.

Am I correct John Nielsen-Gammon?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Looking beyond the individual you, I suggest it boils down to two different perceptions of our planet and Earth sciences.

At the heart of one is an appreciation that our Earth is a living organism, one that has taken four and a half billion years, evolving one day at a time, to arrive at the beautiful cornucopia that awaited a restless inquisitive human species.

The other mindset sees our planet through the lens of ancient texts and tribal dogmas.  To this group of humanity our life sustaining planet, Earth, isn’t anymore “real” than the Hollywood movie on the other side of the screen.  It’s only function is to fuel our economy.

Therein lies the tragedy of our time.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

There’s a little more, plus there are various links not included here.
http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2014/02/open-letter-to-john-nielsen-gammon.html

[ Edited: 12 February 2014 04:50 PM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 12 February 2014 04:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I think we’re in an ecological walking ghost phase right now, the people who are claiming everything is fine are delusional. Without a healthy ecological base, economic wealth means nothing.

Not only is a too rapid increase in CO2 causing a poleward migration of temperature zones that most associated biotas can’t keep up with, it’s also resulted in a rapid increase of ocean acidity.

We’re now looking at about 25% of coral reefs destroyed and will likely see about 90% gone by mid-century if we continue what we’re doing. About 25% of marine organisms are reliant on coral reefs at some point in their life cycle.

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Posted: 12 February 2014 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Fuzzy Logic - 12 February 2014 04:44 PM

I think we’re in an ecological walking ghost phase right now,

Yea, that’s quite the big specter.  I remember back in the 70s, 80s there was really something to try and save - but one milestone after another and nothing has happened to turn this thing around - and she’s a mighty big tanker with an awful head of steam built up.

The terrible part is that when I think about human history - there is such a thread of disregard for consequences - I can easily see how our leaders are going to march us all off that truly CAGW cliff they keep ridiculing.

On the groovy God’s Eye view of things - imagine all those generations of humanity who wondered at how this human experiment was going to turn out - our generations, well at least those empathic enough to think about such things, we are the witnesses - we have seen the great heights humanity could achieve, but we’re also the ones who will come face to face with the consequence our leaders Faustian Bargain.

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Posted: 12 February 2014 05:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 12 February 2014 05:04 PM

Yea, that’s quite the big specter.  I remember back in the 70s, 80s there was really something to try and save - but one milestone after another and nothing has happened to turn this thing around - and she’s a mighty big tanker with an awful head of steam built up.

The terrible part is that when I think about human history - there is such a thread of disregard for consequences - I can easily see how our leaders are going to march us all off that truly CAGW cliff they keep ridiculing.

On the groovy God’s Eye view of things - imagine all those generations of humanity who wondered at how this human experiment was going to turn out - our generations, well at least those empathic enough to think about such things, we are the witnesses - we have seen the great heights humanity could achieve, but we’re also the ones who will come face to face with the consequence our leaders Faustian Bargain.

The sad fact is that as a species we’re smart enough to remake the world in our image, but we’re not emotionally mature enough to understand that we shouldn’t.

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Posted: 18 February 2014 07:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Sure does seem like we had too much too fast…

and that we never managed to master our core reptilian instincts.


~  ~  ~

Here’s a crazy suppose’n for the heck of it… what if

what if WWI and WWII had not happened. 
And that all those marvels that got rushed into discovery and advancement in the name of destroying stuff in a matter of years had instead

gotten discovered and developed with less urgency over decades and less focus on tribal warfare uses.


Would have made for an interesting alternative.


Or if the Faber nitrogen fixing thing hadn’t been discovered - forcing population levels to remain low.

cool smirk

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Posted: 20 February 2014 01:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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One idea I have is that at the same time we have impulses that encourage the development of healthy aspects of society, like well organized communities, care for the elderly, disabled, young etc, education, broad political representation and such, there is also the evolutionary imperative to keep us from being too static which could lead to inbreeding in past times.

So at the same time that some of us are concerned about keeping things from flying apart there’s a strong component of society that’s constantly trying to keep things as mixed up and chaotic as possible with no real thought for the mid to long term consequences. I think that aspect of humanity is more rooted in the more primitive levels of our psychology and can be harder to reason with.

So we’ve just got to keep nudging(or kicking) the sociopaths until they wake up or move out of the way.

[ Edited: 20 February 2014 01:56 PM by Fuzzy Logic ]
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