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Koch Brothers
Posted: 26 February 2014 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I hadn’t heard much about these two industrialists until a few years ago and now they’re identified by many as one of the most significant threats to democracy in America and environmental survival globally. They have billions of dollars to play with and have created or supported some of the most extreme far right think tanks and organizations. They’re largely behind Citizens United which allows the wealthy to decide political races, the Tea Party and much more.

Just how dangerous are the Koch Brothers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html?_r=0

ANOTHER weekend, another grass-roots demonstration starring Real Americans who are mad as hell and want to take back their country from you-know-who. Last Sunday the site was Lower Manhattan, where they jeered the “ground zero mosque.” This weekend, the scene shifted to Washington, where the avatars of oppressed white Tea Party America, Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin, were slated to “reclaim the civil rights movement” (Beck’s words) on the same spot where the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. had his dream exactly 47 years earlier.

Vive la révolution!

There’s just one element missing from these snapshots of America’s ostensibly spontaneous and leaderless populist uprising: the sugar daddies who are bankrolling it, and have been doing so since well before the “death panel” warm-up acts of last summer. Three heavy hitters rule. You’ve heard of one of them, Rupert Murdoch. The other two, the brothers David and Charles Koch, are even richer, with a combined wealth exceeded only by that of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett among Americans. But even those carrying the Kochs’ banner may not know who these brothers are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_activities_of_the_Koch_brothers

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Posted: 26 February 2014 07:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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They should be the posterboys representing the 1%ers in class warfare in America.  Of course in war, you can be ever so much more effective, if most of your opponents aren’t even aware of you, and, in fact, don’t even know a war is going on.

Their continuing emerging notoriety, I think, is a mistake on their part.  But perhaps it is simply inevitable due to the broadness, aggressiveness, and efficacy of their efforts.

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Posted: 27 February 2014 02:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Sounds like business as usual.

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Posted: 27 February 2014 11:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Yep, they’re the face of 21st century US Fascism. When Scott Walker was elected (funded I believe by the Koch brothers) someone from a progressive organization actually called Scott Walker posing as David Koch. It was obvious Walker had no clue, and from the conversation it was obvious he was taking his marching orders from them. Ooops.

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Posted: 27 February 2014 01:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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CuthbertJ - 27 February 2014 11:32 AM

Yep, they’re the face of 21st century US Fascism. When Scott Walker was elected (funded I believe by the Koch brothers) someone from a progressive organization actually called Scott Walker posing as David Koch. It was obvious Walker had no clue, and from the conversation it was obvious he was taking his marching orders from them. Ooops.

I read about that.

I also read somewhere else that the Kochs are attacking unions as the other side of the Citizens United thing. The decision also allows unions to make unlimited campaign contributions so the Kochs want to remove any rivals to their power.

It seems to me that the Kochs and others like them represent a new kind of aristocracy that are above any real laws and controls.

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Posted: 27 February 2014 02:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Fuzzy Logic - 27 February 2014 01:54 PM

It seems to me that the Kochs and others like them represent a new kind of aristocracy that are above any real laws and controls.

New? C’mon….

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Posted: 27 February 2014 03:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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VYAZMA - 27 February 2014 02:01 PM
Fuzzy Logic - 27 February 2014 01:54 PM

It seems to me that the Kochs and others like them represent a new kind of aristocracy that are above any real laws and controls.

New? C’mon….

Sorry, ever growing. And the more power and wealth they have the less everyone else has.

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Posted: 03 March 2014 10:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Fuzzy Logic - 27 February 2014 01:54 PM


Sorry, ever growing. And the more power and wealth they have the less everyone else has.

I do not see the logic.

Example, if i grew a big garden and had lots of food, then I would have wealth and power in the food area, and your saying that would be less for everyone else. So I should grow no garden and that way everyone will have more food.
Is that what you are saying?

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Posted: 03 March 2014 11:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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MikeYohe - 03 March 2014 10:35 AM
Fuzzy Logic - 27 February 2014 01:54 PM


Sorry, ever growing. And the more power and wealth they have the less everyone else has.

I do not see the logic.

Example, if i grew a big garden and had lots of food, then I would have wealth and power in the food area, and your saying that would be less for everyone else. So I should grow no garden and that way everyone will have more food.
Is that what you are saying?

Well when their goal is to consolidate their power and marginalize everyone else’s . . .

CEO Pay Grew 127 Times Faster Than Worker Pay Over Last 30 Years: Study
The Huffington Post |  By Bonnie Kavoussi
Posted: 05/02/2012
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/ceo-pay-worker-pay_n_1471685.html

CEO-To-Worker Pay Ratio Ballooned 1,000 Percent Since 1950: Report
Posted: 04/30/2013
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/30/ceo-to-worker-pay-ratio_n_3184623.html
=========================================================

And then there’s the Kochs et al. attack on American democracy - their conviction that dollars should dictate the electoral/political system rather than citizen votes.

And then there’s the Kochs et al. attack on climate science which has crippled all serious efforts to slow down greenhouse gas emissions, which in turn is guaranteeing a pure hell on Earth for our children and their families.

Yea, they (and like mind gazillionaires ) are as evil as it gets.  Sociopathic even   angry

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Posted: 03 March 2014 12:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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NOT JUST THE KOCH BROTHERS: NEW DREXEL STUDY REVEALS FUNDERS BEHIND THE CLIMATE CHANGE DENIAL EFFORT

PHILADELPHIA, December 20, 2013


A new study conducted by Drexel University environmental sociologist Robert J. Brulle, PhD, exposes the organizational underpinnings and funding behind the powerful climate change countermovement. This study marks the first peer-reviewed, comprehensive analysis ever conducted of the sources of funding that maintain the denial effort.

Through an analysis of the financial structure of the organizations that constitute the core of the countermovement and their sources of monetary support, Brulle found that, while the largest and most consistent funders behind the countermovement are a number of well-known conservative foundations, the majority of donations are “dark money,” or concealed funding.

The data also indicates that Koch Industries and ExxonMobil, two of the largest supporters of climate science denial, have recently pulled back from publicly funding countermovement organizations. Coinciding with the decline in traceable funding, the amount of funding given to countermovement organizations through third party pass-through foundations like Donors Trust and Donors Capital, whose funders cannot be traced, has risen dramatically. ...

- See more at: http://drexel.edu/now/news-media/releases/archive/2013/December/Climate-Change/#sthash.k1OLxzmb.dpuf

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Posted: 03 March 2014 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Fuzzy Logic - 27 February 2014 01:54 PM

Well when their goal is to consolidate their power and marginalize everyone else’s . . .

And then there’s the Kochs et al. attack on American democracy - their conviction that dollars should dictate the electoral/political system rather than citizen votes.

And then there’s the Kochs et al. attack on climate science which has crippled all serious efforts to slow down greenhouse gas emissions, which in turn is guaranteeing a pure hell on Earth for our children and their families.

Yea, they (and like mind gazillionaires ) are as evil as it gets.  Sociopathic even   angry

I still disagree.
Kochs are not controlling the pay. Laws are. Take the grape industry. Upset people passed all these laws in California on behalf of the grape pickers against the wealthy farmers and after twenty years the grape pickers are still making the same income. They were better off before they got the government involved.

Everything seems to go in cycles that are based upon inflation and the market. Unions are needed to balance the cycle. But Union can be bad for the people too, just look at Californian and southern Europe for example.

As far as greenhouse gasses. We should move very slow.

I remember when the United States went nuclear. The top nuclear scientists went before congress and stated that they would be able to burn nuclear waste up and then we would have no nuclear waste. Congress agreed to spend 4B on the plant to burn nuclear waste in Washington State. These were the top nuclear scientist in the world and they could not be wrong. It did not work.

Next, look at Yellowstone and the burning process. For over 20 years Wyoming was trying to tell the Federal government scientists that yearly burning was good for Yellowstone. But the top U.S. scientist said that was faulty thinking and that science shows that all fires should be put out. And the people backing the scientist were saying that people that believed otherwise were the wealthy and the ones getting rich from logging or were backed by the wealthy.
That science lead to the burning of trees in Yellowstone that were hundreds of years old. Now the scientists agree to yearly “let it burn” policies. So for twenty years our top scientist are telling us that facts based upon science show one thing and then overnight the science can be changed by these top scientist to show just the opposite.

Now let look at the globalize warming. Whops, After 17 years of “Global Warming” it is now call “Climate Change”. That in itself should be a red flag. Why do you think that is? Could it be because there has been no “global warming” in 17 years and “Climate Change” is the way scientist can save face?

I agree the air quality needs improving but I think you missed the real money behind all these scientific studies and that is “Carbon Tax Credits”.

Fuzzy Logic - 27 February 2014 01:54 PM

Kochs et al. attack on American democracy - their conviction that dollars should dictate the electoral/political system rather than citizen votes.angry

I don’t know where to begin. But I prefer the Kochs system over the NSA/CIA voting system.

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Posted: 03 March 2014 03:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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MikeYohe - 03 March 2014 01:41 PM
Fuzzy Logic - 27 February 2014 01:54 PM

Well when their goal is to consolidate their power and marginalize everyone else’s . . .

And then there’s the Kochs et al. attack on American democracy - their conviction that dollars should dictate the electoral/political system rather than citizen votes.

And then there’s the Kochs et al. attack on climate science which has crippled all serious efforts to slow down greenhouse gas emissions, which in turn is guaranteeing a pure hell on Earth for our children and their families.

Yea, they (and like mind gazillionaires ) are as evil as it gets.  Sociopathic even   angry

I still disagree.
Kochs are not controlling the pay. Laws are. Take the grape industry. Upset people passed all these laws in California on behalf of the grape pickers against the wealthy farmers and after twenty years the grape pickers are still making the same income. They were better off before they got the government involved.

Everything seems to go in cycles that are based upon inflation and the market. Unions are needed to balance the cycle. But Union can be bad for the people too, just look at Californian and southern Europe for example.

As far as greenhouse gasses. We should move very slow.

I remember when the United States went nuclear. The top nuclear scientists went before congress and stated that they would be able to burn nuclear waste up and then we would have no nuclear waste. Congress agreed to spend 4B on the plant to burn nuclear waste in Washington State. These were the top nuclear scientist in the world and they could not be wrong. It did not work.

Next, look at Yellowstone and the burning process. For over 20 years Wyoming was trying to tell the Federal government scientists that yearly burning was good for Yellowstone. But the top U.S. scientist said that was faulty thinking and that science shows that all fires should be put out. And the people backing the scientist were saying that people that believed otherwise were the wealthy and the ones getting rich from logging or were backed by the wealthy.
That science lead to the burning of trees in Yellowstone that were hundreds of years old. Now the scientists agree to yearly “let it burn” policies. So for twenty years our top scientist are telling us that facts based upon science show one thing and then overnight the science can be changed by these top scientist to show just the opposite.

Now let look at the globalize warming. Whops, After 17 years of “Global Warming” it is now call “Climate Change”. That in itself should be a red flag. Why do you think that is? Could it be because there has been no “global warming” in 17 years and “Climate Change” is the way scientist can save face?

I agree the air quality needs improving but I think you missed the real money behind all these scientific studies and that is “Carbon Tax Credits”.

Fuzzy Logic - 27 February 2014 01:54 PM

Kochs et al. attack on American democracy - their conviction that dollars should dictate the electoral/political system rather than citizen votes.angry

I don’t know where to begin. But I prefer the Kochs system over the NSA/CIA voting system.

I strongly disagree on the climate change issue alone, while it has slowed in recent years due to complex factors like unforced variability in the south pacific, climate change and global warming are still under way and will be for years even if we stop all CO2 emissions and other positive forcings right now.

There’s a lot of good debunking here.

https://www.skepticalscience.com/

I also disagree that the current trend in America towards a security state should be answered by turning the country over to a de facto aristocracy. The answer is more involvement by US citizens not less as the Kochs and other like them almost certainly want.

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Posted: 03 March 2014 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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MikeYohe - 03 March 2014 10:35 AM
Fuzzy Logic - 27 February 2014 01:54 PM


Sorry, ever growing. And the more power and wealth they have the less everyone else has.

I do not see the logic.

Example, if i grew a big garden and had lots of food, then I would have wealth and power in the food area, and your saying that would be less for everyone else. So I should grow no garden and that way everyone will have more food.
Is that what you are saying?

You’re assuming that people get wealthy by producing things, much of current commerce seems to involve getting people to think that certain things have value and then fleecing them.

Examples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

followed by a large number of corporate accounting scams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounting_scandals

And the Bernie Madoff and subprime scandals which happened concurrently and were linked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis

huge amounts of wealth are based on hard to define and borderline fraudulent investment instruments.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2013/01/08/five-years-after-the-financial-meltdown-the-water-is-still-full-of-big-sharks/

What the Kochs and others are doing is just part of a broader system that is in a slow state of tearing itself apart, what we see as crisises are just inevitable results of such destructive behaviour.

So the questions becomes, why support people and organizations who are working for such a destructive purpose?

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Posted: 03 March 2014 05:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Fuzzy Logic - 03 March 2014 03:44 PM

What the Kochs and others are doing is just part of a broader system that is in a slow state of tearing itself apart, what we see as crisises are just inevitable results of such destructive behaviour.

So the questions becomes, why support people and organizations who are working for such a destructive purpose?

I cannot go into these issues.

Reason is that I have studied the system and I do not know how to tell you how the system operates without seeming like I am out in left field.

The best thing I can tell you is to study the life of the NSA Bankers over the last fifty years. The NSA banker I found most interesting was John R. Petty. Following the life time career of an NSA Banker will show you how the government got involved in the Media and Banking.

It will take you into the Economic Warfare that has been going on since WW1.
 
Taiwan has been a NSA banking asset for years to conduct the Economic Warfare with China. If you research what the United States has done to the Formosa people since WWII then you will see how the NSA Bankers puts Economic Warfare over the rights and living conditions of the people.
 
There is no such thing as to big to fail. The big banks are partnered with the Government and have NSA bankers on their boards. This was started by J.P. Morgan and evolved into the Midland Bank as just one example.
   
The banks committed thousands and thousands of felonies in the housing market alone, yet none went to jail. When you understand the Economic Warfare then you will understand how the system works and why things like this can happen when there is no oversight and everything is done in secrecy.

The system is not run by people like the Koch Brothers, it is being run by NSA bankers like John R. Petty.

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Posted: 03 March 2014 07:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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MikeYohe - 03 March 2014 01:41 PM

...
As far as greenhouse gasses. We should move very slow…

In regards to atmospheric Carbon Dioxide levels, we humans, have, ignorantly, been moving very fast.  Since 1950 the atmospheric levels have been greater than any time in the past 625,000 years.  And since 1950 the continuing rate of increase is straight up. 


http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence

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Posted: 03 March 2014 07:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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What are NSA bankers?
If that stands for what I think it does then that’s ridiculous.

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Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

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