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Koch Brothers
Posted: 29 March 2014 12:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 121 ]
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Rocinante - 29 March 2014 10:02 AM

Actually I was talking about the drone attacks in Pakistan which continued for years after bin Laden was killed and all done without Congressional approval.  If Bush or Obama is going to do that, they need to get Congressional approval first.  As for the hunt for bin Laden I give credit to Obama, Bush and especially to the Navy SEALS who carried out the raid - something I doubt you would do (giving credit to all involved).  The hunt for bin Laden was started by Bush and they just so happened to get their target while Obama was in office.

That’s where much of the Taliban leadership and infrastructure is, any hope of getting US forces out of Afghanistan and keeping the Taliban from returning there requires effective action at the Taliban base. The Pakistani government is either unable or unwilling to deal effectively with the violent fundamentalists in its own territory and in fact some elements of the Pakistani ISI have played a key role in creating and supporting the Taliban and even have links to the 9/11 attackers. So to a degree Pakistan is a hostile state to the US. Obama is being pragmatic. 

This is just a borderline variant on 9/11 Trooferism and demonstrates that it is pointless to attempt to have an intelligent discussion with you on the topic.

It’s a fact, thousands of Taliban and al Qaeda troops were allowed to escape into Pakistan during the Bush led invasion of Afghanistan and action was never effectively taken to secure the nation and neutralize the al Qaeda leadership. Instead the Iraq War was started helping to spread violent religious based groups across the region and diluting US efforts everywhere. Obama has been doing a credible job in concentrating US forces to effectively remove US forces from what will probably be decades long internal and regional conflicts. Bush and Cheney seemed to want America involved in endless war in the region.

Which is probably sour grapes to Republicans that unquestioningly followed such reckless “leadership”.

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Posted: 29 March 2014 08:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 122 ]
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Rocinante - 29 March 2014 10:05 AM
TimB - 27 March 2014 03:51 PM

Actually, I checked them out, and considering the circumstances, believe Obama to be pretty much justified in doing what he has done.

Of course you do.  That’s called Special Pleading because Obama has that magic “D” after his name instead of the evil “R”.  It is pointless to have any further discussion due to your blind ideological viewpoint trumping facts and logic.

I am not pleading anything.  I am saying that, under the circumstances, Obama has done what has been most pragmatic.  Obviously, “facts” can be presented and construed in different ways, from different perspectives.  As to accusing someone of being over-ideological, that should be done with caution, if one, themselves, throws about suspiciously ideological terms such as “fascism” and accuses the President of megalomaniacal despotism.

But you are correct, in that, if your intention is to change my perspective into your own, there is no point in further discussion with me.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 30 March 2014 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 123 ]
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Obama could probably cure cancer, bring about world peace, find cheap, endless, non-polluting energy sources and ways to feed the world’s billions and some on the very far right would still claim he’s an evil communist trying to enslave us all.

In fact doing those things would probably confirm it for them, as he’d actually be doing things that benefit average people instead of drive them into poverty or death.

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Posted: 30 March 2014 05:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 124 ]
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Obama could do a lot of things if not for the obstructionist far right wing of the Republican Party in Congress.  It is the efforts of this obstructionist faction that is most likely to lead to the suffering of the “average people”.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 31 March 2014 12:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 125 ]
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Fuzzy Logic - 30 March 2014 01:48 PM

Obama could probably cure cancer, bring about world peace, find cheap, endless, non-polluting energy sources and ways to feed the world’s billions and some on the very far right would still claim he’s an evil communist trying to enslave us all.

In fact doing those things would probably confirm it for them, as he’d actually be doing things that benefit average people instead of drive them into poverty or death.

I didn’t state that very well.smile

I didn’t mean that Obama was a miracle worker, but that if he really was, Tea Party types would still find something to condemn him for.

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