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Ukraine
Posted: 19 March 2014 01:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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TimB - 18 March 2014 06:31 PM

 

Cuthbert suggested “...We need to elect gay guys to President and Prime Minister for every major country. They’re secure in their sexuality and don’t need to be such macho f&*(‘s.”

So the thread has taken this odd course.  The suggestion seems faulty, to me.  I don’t know whether all gay guys are not “macho”.  I suspect some are.

A better suggestion along these lines, I think, to limit the influence of “macho f&*(‘s”, would be to only elect females as the leaders of nations.

I’d question that assumption as well.

As for Lincoln, does it really matter what his sexuality was, he was a great President in many people’s opinion. If he was also gay that doesn’t change his accomplishments unless you think that being gay is somehow wrong.

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Posted: 19 March 2014 05:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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In an attempt to bring this queerly evolved thread back towards topic, I suspect that it went off-topic based on an assumption that Putin is a “macho f&*{” who is insecure in his own sexuality. (I guess we could reasonably suspect that of a world leader who has pictures taken of himself, shirtless, riding a horse.) 

But all that is speculation.  We don’t really know if Putin’s actions in Crimea were based on some underlying drive to demonstrate his personal prowess.

But if so, and we can keep him contained for 10 or 20 years (until his testosterone levels naturally decline), we should be okay.

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Posted: 19 March 2014 06:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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garythehuman - 11 March 2014 08:36 AM

Just a thought - Russia has gone into the Ukraine not only because a large part of the population there is Russian but possibly even more important to them is that they have a major naval base there.  The Us would do the same in the Philippines, Okinawa or the middle-east if one the control or access of our military bases was threatened.

 

I’m not sure most Ukranians would agree with that.  Most consider themselves a different ethnic group with different ethnic origins than Russians. They also have their own language, which, though it has similarities, is different from Russian. The Ukranian language is the recognized language of Ukraine. Ukranians were treated badly, deported and and starved by Soviet Russians, some calling it a Ukranian holocaust, called the Holodomor. Many Ukranians are not ready to forgive ethnic Russians for their treatment and would be unwilling to allow the Russians to govern Ukraine. I think they would fight fiercely any attempt by Russians to take over their country.

Lois

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Posted: 20 March 2014 08:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Okay this is silly, but I heard this the other day on a cooking show my wife was watching.

The guy in the Ukraine (I don’t remember his name and couldn’t spell it anyhow) who was thrown out of office and ran off to Russia when all this got started is now known as Chicken Kiev.  shock

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Posted: 20 March 2014 08:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Lois:

I’m not sure most Ukranians would agree with that.  Most consider themselves a different ethnic group with different ethnic origins than Russians

I don’t disagree with that, and I know Hitler used the same arguments for his “expansion plans”  I don’t like what the Russians are doing.  The main point I was trying to make is that the Russian’s view access to these ports as critical to their national security and are taking action to ensure their control of them and the area around them.  I know the U.S. would do and have done the same when it perceives its national interests are threatened. How many dictators have we supported over the years?  How about overthrowing the elected leader of Iran and setting up the Shaw, we are still paying for that one.

Hopefully the Russian actions will not lead to war, and realistically their is very little we can do about their actions it at this time.  We cannot have another Russo-European war with all the nukes rattling around.

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Posted: 20 March 2014 09:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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garythehuman - 20 March 2014 08:28 AM

Lois:

I’m not sure most Ukranians would agree with that.  Most consider themselves a different ethnic group with different ethnic origins than Russians

I don’t disagree with that, and I know Hitler used the same arguments for his “expansion plans”  I don’t like what the Russians are doing.  The main point I was trying to make is that the Russian’s view access to these ports as critical to their national security and are taking action to ensure their control of them and the area around them.  I know the U.S. would do and have done the same when it perceives its national interests are threatened. How many dictators have we supported over the years?  How about overthrowing the elected leader of Iran and setting up the Shaw, we are still paying for that one.

Hopefully the Russian actions will not lead to war, and realistically their is very little we can do about their actions it at this time.  We cannot have another Russo-European war with all the nukes rattling around.

All that I agree with.

Lois

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Posted: 20 March 2014 05:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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TimB - 19 March 2014 05:43 PM

In an attempt to bring this queerly evolved thread back towards topic, I suspect that it went off-topic based on an assumption that Putin is a “macho f&*{” who is insecure in his own sexuality. (I guess we could reasonably suspect that of a world leader who has pictures taken of himself, shirtless, riding a horse.) 

But all that is speculation.  We don’t really know if Putin’s actions in Crimea were based on some underlying drive to demonstrate his personal prowess.

But if so, and we can keep him contained for 10 or 20 years (until his testosterone levels naturally decline), we should be okay.

Not that there’s any direct evidence, but one of Putin’s biggest critics, Alexander Litvenenko claimed among other things that Putin was a child molester. Litvenenko is the fellow who was most likely killed by a Russian agent using radioactive Polonium 210 laced tea who is now being protected by Putin in Russia.

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=18244

Because, shortly before his graduation, his bosses learned that Putin was a pedophile. So say some people who knew Putin as a student at the Institute.

The Institute officials feared to report this to their own superiors, which would cause an unpleasant investigation. They decided it was easier just to avoid sending Putin abroad under some pretext. Such a solution is not unusual for the secret services.

Many years later, when Putin became the FSB director and was preparing for presidency, he began to seek and destroy any compromising materials collected against him by the secret services over earlier years. It was not difficult, provided he himself was the FSB director. Among other things, Putin found videotapes in the FSB Internal Security Directorate, which showed him making sex with some underage boys.

So who knows to what level Putin’s creepiness extends. It’s also possible he was involved in state sponsored terrorism in Russia at the start of his political career.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/nov/22/finally-we-know-about-moscow-bombings/

But Putin was unknown to the Russian public. If elections were to take place—and this apparently had yet to be decided upon—his chances were by no means certain. In order for the Family’s “operation successor” to succeed, something would have to occur to boost Putin’s public image and demonstrate his capacity for strong leadership. The invasion of Dagestan by Chechen rebels failed to have the desired effect of arousing widespread anti-Chechen sentiment. As Dunlop’s sources said, more violence was needed to justify a war against Chechnya, which would unite people around the new prime minister.

The Moscow Bombings makes it clear, first of all, that the FSB had advanced knowledge that the bombings would take place. As we have seen, rumors of impending terrorist attacks had surfaced as early as June 1999. Even more significant is the fact that a respected and influential Duma deputy, Konstantin Borovoy, was told on September 9, the day of the first Moscow apartment bombing, that there was to be a terrorist attack in the city. His source was an officer of the Russian military intelligence (GRU). Borovoy transmitted this information to FSB officials serving on Yeltsin’s Security Council, but he was ignored. At least one other credible warning of an impending attack was reported to law enforcement agencies in Moscow that same day and not acted upon.

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Posted: 20 March 2014 06:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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DarronS - 14 March 2014 09:36 PM
Lois - 14 March 2014 09:02 PM

Who’s going to stop them? The American superman?

Lois

CaptainAmericaWallpaper9.jpg

 

That’s him!

Lois

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Posted: 21 March 2014 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Whatever kind of dastardly creep Putin is, he has to have the support of a large bulk of the Russian people.  So far, it appears he does.  A tongue in cheek, but actual interview of some individual citizens on the Daily Show (during the Olympics) suggests that their ideologies would fit in nicely with those of some of our radical Tea Partiers.

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Posted: 21 March 2014 09:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Can anyone tell me what being gay or straight has to do with Russia and Ukraine? Or with leading any country? I must have missed something.

Lois

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Posted: 22 March 2014 12:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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TimB - 21 March 2014 05:04 PM

Whatever kind of dastardly creep Putin is, he has to have the support of a large bulk of the Russian people.  So far, it appears he does.  A tongue in cheek, but actual interview of some individual citizens on the Daily Show (during the Olympics) suggests that their ideologies would fit in nicely with those of some of our radical Tea Partiers.

Much of it is largely out of fear, which is somewhat of a tradition in Russia going back to the Tsars. Ivan the Terrible as he was known in the west was known as Ivan the Awesome or Fearsome in Russia. Putin understands the use of violence and intimidation to control large populations, which was one of the key roles of the Soviet secret police throughout the length of the USSR. Putin came up through that system and obviously mastered its darker aspects.

People understand what happens to those who question power in Putin’s Russia such as Anna Polikovskaya.

The assassination of Anna Politkovskaya (born 1958), the Russian journalist, writer and human rights activist, took place on 7 October 2006. She was well known for her opposition to the Chechen conflict and criticism of Russian President Vladimir Putin.[1][2] She authored several books about the Chechen wars, as well as Putin’s Russia, and received numerous prestigious international awards for her work. Her murder, which occurred on Vladimir Putin’s birthday, was widely perceived as a contract killing, sparking a strong international reaction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Anna_Politkovskaya

Something else that Litvenenko stated was that under Putin the FSB was engaged in training terrorists one of which was involved in the 9/11 attacks. During the Cold War the USSR was a strong backer of groups attacking western nations, once again part of a culture that Putin comes from.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6163502.stm

Perhaps most notably, he alleged that al-Qaeda number two Ayman al-Zawahiri was trained by the FSB in Dagestan in the years before the 9/11 attacks.

This was coming from a former FSB lieutenant-colonel who was most likely murdered with Po-210 by a Russian agent who is now being protected from prosecution by the Putin government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko

So how dangerous is Putin, I think he’s about as dangerous as you can get.

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Posted: 22 March 2014 12:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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These words of Anna Politkovskaya seem prophetic.

Politkovskaya’s book, Putin’s Russia: Life in a Failing Democracy, strongly criticized Putin’s federal presidency, including his pursuit of the Second Chechen War. She accused Putin and the Russian secret service FSB of stifling all civil liberties in order to establish a Soviet-style dictatorship, but admitted that “it is we who are responsible for Putin’s policies”:
“Society has shown limitless apathy…. As the Chekists have become entrenched in power, we have let them see our fear, and thereby have only intensified their urge to treat us like cattle. The KGB respects only the strong. The weak it devours. We of all people ought to know that.”
She also wrote:
“We are hurtling back into a Soviet abyss, into an information vacuum that spells death from our own ignorance. All we have left is the internet, where information is still freely available. For the rest, if you want to go on working as a journalist, it’s total servility to Putin. Otherwise, it can be death, the bullet, poison, or trial—whatever our special services, Putin’s guard dogs, see fit.”[3]
“People often tell me that I am a pessimist, that I don’t believe in the strength of the Russian people, that I am obsessive in my opposition to Putin and see nothing beyond that,” she opens an essay titled Am I Afraid?, finishing it—and the book—with the words: “If anybody thinks they can take comfort from the ‘optimistic’ forecast, let them do so. It is certainly the easier way, but it is the death sentence for our grandchildren.

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Posted: 22 March 2014 12:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Lois - 21 March 2014 09:24 PM

Can anyone tell me what being gay or straight has to do with Russia and Ukraine? Or with leading any country? I must have missed something.

Lois

As Occam posted, it started with post #11.

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