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Sixth Mass Extinction
Posted: 11 May 2014 02:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn62AjIpWMw

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Posted: 11 May 2014 10:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Hmmm, {snips previous remarks} thought I’d seen that video, but I was wrong.

I’ll be getting back to you.  Thanks for the link, at least this is interesting. 

{Then I fell asleep before it was finished.}

later pal, the day is off and running.

[ Edited: 12 May 2014 07:13 AM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 12 May 2014 11:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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psikeyhackr - 11 May 2014 02:36 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn62AjIpWMw

OK, watched it again, well done documentary and good summation of the state of understanding as l’ve learned it.
OK, pretty much the same thoughts   grin
Interesting choice psik

The Day the Earth Nearly Died
Uploaded on Jan 15, 2012
BBC Horizon programme on the Permian Mass Extinction

psikeyhackr - 11 May 2014 02:36 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn62AjIpWMw


I came across this, seems a fitting addition

End-Permian Mass Extinction Took Only 60,000 Years, Say Researchers
Feb 11, 2014 by Sci-News.com

Paleontologists have determined that the end-Permian extinction – the Earth’s most severe mass extinction that peaked about 252.3 million years ago – occurred over just 60,000 years, much faster than they previously believed.
http://www.sci-news.com/paleontology/science-end-permian-mass-extinction-01756.html

This ought to give you a feeling for why some folks, like me are very scared, pessimistic about our future.  We’ve blithely jetted through all the barriers . . .
And doing so at breakneck speed, geologically speaking.

~ ~ ~

So what did you think of the show, and what lesson do you draw from it?
  smile

[ Edited: 12 May 2014 11:27 AM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 12 May 2014 01:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Fuzzy Logic - 08 May 2014 02:56 PM

So let me get this straight, so far comments on the likelihood that we’re now in the midst of a preventable human generated mass extinction that would likely include us are basically;

Preventable? Who said that? Even if suddenly the entire human race collectively decided to work on the problem momentum may well be against all efforts. I’m simply accepting of things I can’t change. And as I said, letting species die off simply opens up room for new life.

We’re god and can do anything we chose

To the rest of the lifeforms on this planet we are and we can.

I’ve killed so many things on PS3 that I’m now numb to reality.

rolleyes

For some reason I was expecting a bit more.

Never set your expectations very high. That way, you will never be let down.  cheese


And in the end, it’s all pointless anyway. The universe is colossal, pointless, and uncaring. Whether we kill every living thing on this planet or not means nothing.

UNICORN!!
Fat_unicorn.jpg

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“In the end nature is horrific and teaches us nothing.” -Mutual of Omicron

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Posted: 12 May 2014 01:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 12 May 2014 11:24 AM

This ought to give you a feeling for why some folks, like me are very scared, pessimistic about our future.  We’ve blithely jetted through all the barriers . . .
And doing so at breakneck speed, geologically speaking.

~ ~ ~

So what did you think of the show, and what lesson do you draw from it?
  smile

I have already conceded that I think there is a significant possibility of 90% of the human race being wiped out.  I consider that to be pretty pessimistic.  I simply doubt very much that the human race will not survive it.  If the population gets down to 500 million I would expect the wars to be over and people just trying to cope with the screwed up environment.  But with that low a population feeding people may not be too difficult.  It will be a question of how badly the technological infrastructure is screwed up.

A large percentage of it will have ceased to spew out more CO2.  But how much methane will be released? 

Still in all previous extinctions it was dumb animals that did not know what was happening and did not have hands.

psik

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Posted: 12 May 2014 05:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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psikeyhackr - 12 May 2014 01:42 PM

Still in all previous extinctions it was dumb animals that did not know what was happening and did not have hands.

How differently we view the events and progression of the past centuries.

I see multiple proofs that man is every bit as “shallow,”  “short sighted,” and “instinct driven” as animals are.

Sure, we managed to put together some mighty incredible marvels - but we never knew where to take any of it.

Seems to me we haven’t evolved one bit from the tribalism of the Bible, the Romans, Vikings, Portugal, Spain,  Dutch, English, etc. empires— all very animalistic, driven by instincts more than rational thoughtfulness.

Otherwise we’d have realized back in the 1950s…60s…70s that Malthus had a damned good point and that we had better start proceeding with a heck of a lot of caution and forethought, as they sowed the seeds of future nightmares.

Heck just look at the utterly insane way US embraced 9/11…  Absolutely no respect for human nature, or considering blow back and the future, nah - it was one hell of a business opportunity… so on we go… rah rah.
~ ~ ~

But, back to our planet’s ability to sustain complex life forms.  We have started a ball rolling… and are doing absolutely nothing to slow it down.  Once our injections of GHGs do drop, due to the economy getting crippled, by the full spectrum of extreme weather’s onslaughts tearing apart ever more cogs and gears of our modern society.  Perhaps warming will stabilize, but could well be above the Methane Hydrate threshold.

As we’ve seen, once the oceans warm to the point that methane hydrates start getting released - show over.  Your big fancy brain needs an awful lot of nutrition to keep it going.  Ocean food chain killed off, fertile lands scorched to deserts, rain belt moving polewards, but dropping torrential amounts of rain, not to mention the wind, making establishing new farmlands challenging like no one can imagine, etc, etc.

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Posted: 12 May 2014 06:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Dead Monky - 12 May 2014 01:32 PM

UNICORN!!
Fat_unicorn.jpg

DM, you do cut to the chase.  I know some find you distasteful, yet seems to me that’s the ‘truth’s’ fault and not your own.

Gotta admit, I don’t even know what I’m doing any more, once I did have this dream of “being part of the change” but no one wanted to change.
Now having watched unrecognized tipping point after unrecognized tipping point, now to recognized tipping points slipping past {http://news.sciencemag.org/climate/2014/05/west-antarctic-ice-sheet-collapsing}
I have an increasing difficult time explaining to myself why try to confront the lies that people love eating up like ice cream cones.

Maybe I’m just pissed -  and because of my particular background - and need be a witness - even if it’s only to myself (although http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com is about to pass 75,000 visit, so someone else must care, at least a little.  wink ).

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Posted: 13 May 2014 08:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 12 May 2014 05:52 PM
psikeyhackr - 12 May 2014 01:42 PM

Still in all previous extinctions it was dumb animals that did not know what was happening and did not have hands.

How differently we view the events and progression of the past centuries.

I see multiple proofs that man is every bit as “shallow,”  “short sighted,” and “instinct driven” as animals are.

Sure, we managed to put together some mighty incredible marvels - but we never knew where to take any of it.

Seems to me we haven’t evolved one bit from the tribalism of the Bible, the Romans, Vikings, Portugal, Spain,  Dutch, English, etc. empires— all very animalistic, driven by instincts more than rational thoughtfulness.

Who is WE?

Tesla is not responsible for all of the stupid and garish electric signs in Times Square.

The curious thing about this climate business is when things come apart it will be pretty obvious who the idiots were.  What kind of sorting out will occur?

psik

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Posted: 13 May 2014 09:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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psikeyhackr - 13 May 2014 08:45 AM
citizenschallenge.pm - 12 May 2014 05:52 PM
psikeyhackr - 12 May 2014 01:42 PM

Still in all previous extinctions it was dumb animals that did not know what was happening and did not have hands.

How differently we view the events and progression of the past centuries.

I see multiple proofs that man is every bit as “shallow,”  “short sighted,” and “instinct driven” as animals are.

Sure, we managed to put together some mighty incredible marvels - but we never knew where to take any of it.

Seems to me we haven’t evolved one bit from the tribalism of the Bible, the Romans, Vikings, Portugal, Spain,  Dutch, English, etc. empires— all very animalistic, driven by instincts more than rational thoughtfulness.

Who is WE?

Tesla is not responsible for all of the stupid and garish electric signs in Times Square.

The curious thing about this climate business is when things come apart it will be pretty obvious who the idiots were.  What kind of sorting out will occur?

psik

WE are all in this pot together.  blank stare 
and as much satisfaction as I may be able to squeeze out of I TOLD YOU SO… it won’t do me or my kids or others any good as this unraveling continues.  downer

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Posted: 13 May 2014 10:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 13 May 2014 09:48 AM

WE are all in this pot together.  blank stare 
and as much satisfaction as I may be able to squeeze out of I TOLD YOU SO… it won’t do me or my kids or others any good as this unraveling continues.  downer

I have mentioned the population going down to 500,000,000.  That means a lot of people getting kicked out of the pot.

Survivalists make a certain amount of sense to me.

Have you read the book: No Blade of Grass?

You come across as trying to be too nice if the crap really hits the fan.

psik

[ Edited: 13 May 2014 02:08 PM by psikeyhackr ]
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Posted: 13 May 2014 11:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Ok gentlemen, let’s not throw out the history books just yet. Everyone decries the idea of using fictitious folk stories (e.g. the Bible, ahem) to solve current problems when possible solutions can be found in human history and paleoanthropology. How did our species survive natural disasters far greater then what we face today? It may be simplistic to say we adapted to colder, warmer, smokier, dryer, wetter, diseasier? etc, conditions but we did. Man survived the last ice age when we as a species first appeared after having wiped out our last hominin rivals, survived a continuous series of devastating wars culminating with the nuclear holocaust we dropped on Japan, the Wars by proxy created by the Cold War that killed millions; our European ancestors survived the Great Plagues that literally wiped out half the population there, the Potato Famine that almost wiped out Ireland; Native Americans communities that were virtually destroyed by those very Europeans who survived the plagues (irony) from seven million in 1492 to 500,000 in 1900 in North America, natural disasters e.g. Floods, volcanoes, earthquakes albeit not on a global scale but locally.

Now don’t get me wrong here, We do have a major problem with global warming; it’s real, it will negatively affect the climate and we’re heading for a global disaster if we don’t get our head out of the fossil fuel trough but I’m optimistic about the outcome. We’ve solved the survival problem in the past; it’s what we do, we solve problems, we’re not turkeys who drown in the rain, well some of us are, but enough of will force our governments to act positively to back us away from the brink. Remember the Futurists and their atomic clock? before the Wall fell it was two minutes till midnight and we we all sucking air that this would be our last minute before total destruction. We’re getting there again and it’s time to reset the clock. If we begin to change now it will slow the process and if it doesn’t stop it then we’ll deal with it like we’ve always done. I know that there’s a lot of stupid Homo Sapiens out there but there’s also a bunch of smart ones; hell, some are even on this forum.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 15 May 2014 04:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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This site may offer some additional information,

See the extent of human influence on the globe land surface. 
• Some species are now perpetually reliant on human intervention to avoid extinction. 
• Endangered species in the 2000s: Human-caused and human-delayed extinctions. 
• A change in focus from research on environmental destruction to socially relevant solutions may lead to a sustainable future. 
• Habitat destruction drives much of the current biodiversity extinction crisis. Examine the global potential for safeguarding biodiversity and ecosystem services simultaneously….., http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/eldredge2.html

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Posted: 20 May 2014 07:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Robert Walper - 09 May 2014 06:06 PM

*yawns* Not even interested. You seem to conclude I’m oblivious the magnitude and ongoing problems in the world simply because I have I a very optimistic view of the future. Simpletons cry about problems and preach gloom and doom. Intelligent people go about tackling and solving the problems long before the simpletons were really aware of their existence in the first place.

I think you’re just a complete idiot, you’re philosophy is right up there with jumping out of an airplane without a parachute because you’re a master sewer and plan on making one as you fall to the Earth.

When you look at how precarious food security is right now with recent droughts in some of the most important grain producing regions like the US and Russia and growing risk in places like the prime rice growing regions in the Mekong and Yangtze Deltas, just feeding 7 billion people is going to be very uncertain in a few years let alone a few decades.

Intelligent people don’t destroy the natural systems that make life possible for complex life in the first place in some fit of hubris, and only a psychopath would willingly put the lives of 7 billion people at risk and a vast part of the biosphere from the same hubris.

Basically what you’re saying is you couldn’t care less about the lives of other people, let alone the existence of other species that don’t add to the obviously hugely over-inflated ego you have.

Multiply the crap coming from this one person millions of times and you have a very good idea of why nothing is being done to prevent an unfolding catastrophe.

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Posted: 20 May 2014 07:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Dead Monky - 12 May 2014 01:32 PM

Preventable? Who said that? Even if suddenly the entire human race collectively decided to work on the problem momentum may well be against all efforts. I’m simply accepting of things I can’t change. And as I said, letting species die off simply opens up room for new life.

Except we’re not even being given that option because powerful interests like the fossil fuel lobby and industrial fishing corporations have the political process tied up and are so short sighted they are effectively blind. We’re being led off a cliff by blindmen in a mad pursuit of a profit that will mean absolutely nothing in the coming freefall then deadly impact.

And while checking out of the human race as you obviously have may provide you with some illusory buffer from what’s happening, it makes the chances of a catastrophic collapse more likely if more people take that course.

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Posted: 20 May 2014 08:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Robert Walper - 09 May 2014 06:06 PM

You seem to conclude I’m oblivious the magnitude and ongoing problems in the world simply because I have I a very optimistic view of the future. Intelligent people go about tackling and solving the problems long before the simpletons were really aware of their existence in the first place.

If that were true society as a whole would have gotten serious about recognizing the basic math problem of a finite Earth and an ever exploding material consuming, biosphere destroying and polluting human population - and we’d have started taken remedial action when it could have made a different, like the 70s/80s/90s.

I would suggest your problem fit’s into the “disconnection from Earth’s realities” category, given that you don’t seem to have a clue how radically we have disrupted fundamental Earth processes.

Here’s a monster most remain ignorant about
Ocean acidification already eating away at tiny creatures
http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2014/04/ocean-acidification-already-eating-away.html

As for weather, well it’s looking a bunch of that “missing heat” is getting ready for the next stair step to oblivion
Deep Ocean Warming is Coming Back to Haunt Us:
Record Warmth for 2014 Likely As Equatorial Heat Rises
May 16, 2014

http://robertscribbler.wordpress.com/2014/05/16/deep-ocean-warming-is-coming-back-to-haunt-us-record-warmth-for-2014-likely-as-equatorial-heat-rises/

Are you up on the latest science news, there have been a few zingers
Speaking of 2014… looks like it’s show time
http://whatsupwiththatwatts.blogspot.com/2014/05/speaking-of-2014-looks-like-its-show.html

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