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Sixth Mass Extinction
Posted: 20 May 2014 09:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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And how intelligent are we really when we’re allowing some of the most cynical and sociopathic among us drive policy.

We’re not forging boldly into the future on coal, oil and natural gas power because it’s the most intelligent way, we’re doing it because the people at Philip Morris and Exxon found effective means to defraud the public and place all of us at greater risk for their profit.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2006/sep/19/ethicalliving.g2

To this end, she had hired a public relations company called APCO. She had attached the advice it had given her. APCO warned that: “No matter how strong the arguments, industry spokespeople are, in and of themselves, not always credible or appropriate messengers.”

So the fight against a ban on passive smoking had to be associated with other people and other issues. Philip Morris, APCO said, needed to create the impression of a “grassroots” movement - one that had been formed spontaneously by concerned citizens to fight “overregulation”. It should portray the danger of tobacco smoke as just one “unfounded fear” among others, such as concerns about pesticides and cellphones. APCO proposed to set up “a national coalition intended to educate the media, public officials and the public about the dangers of ‘junk science’. Coalition will address credibility of government’s scientific studies, risk-assessment techniques and misuse of tax dollars ... Upon formation of Coalition, key leaders will begin media outreach, eg editorial board tours, opinion articles, and brief elected officials in selected states.”

APCO would found the coalition, write its mission statements, and “prepare and place opinion articles in key markets”. For this it required $150,000 for its own fees and $75,000 for the coalition’s costs.

By May 1993, as another memo from APCO to Philip Morris shows, the fake citizens’ group had a name: the Advancement of Sound Science Coalition. It was important, further letters stated, “to ensure that TASSC has a diverse group of contributors”; to “link the tobacco issue with other more ‘politically correct’ products”; and to associate scientific studies that cast smoking in a bad light with “broader questions about government research and regulations” - such as “global warming”, “nuclear waste disposal” and “biotechnology”. APCO would engage in the “intensive recruitment of high-profile representatives from business and industry, scientists, public officials, and other individuals interested in promoting the use of sound science”.

So we’re not being bravely led into a new dawn of wonder and plenty as some idiots are claiming, we’re being conned out of our very existence by psychopaths who can only think in strictly zero sum game terms where if you have something they want they lose unless they get it.

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Posted: 21 May 2014 07:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 08 May 2014 04:41 PM

So let me get this straight, so far comments on the likelihood that we’re now in the midst of a preventable human generated mass extinction that would likely include us are basically;

We’re god and can do anything we chose
and
I’ve killed so many things on PS3 that I’m now numb to reality.

For some reason I was expecting a bit more.

Fuzzy, how many politicians are fist pumping and table thumping about a possible global catastrophe if we stay the course and use up as much fossil fuel as our machines can gorge? We allow them to drone on about how we need the pipeline because if we don’t use it then China will get the oil and well, we ALL know their environmental track record so let’s get it first because we can keep it cleaner and save the environment. This is the type of blinkered thinking that gets them reelected over and over again. “Well maybe they have the answers; sounds good to me anyway. Gas prices will be less and I can still drive my big ass monster truck so I can impress the ladies”. “and besides, God’s comin’ ta pluck us off this rock anyway so who really gives a shit”? let the cockroaches have it when we “intelligent” primates kill ourselves off.


Cap’t Jack

Certainly there is personal responsibility in this, but we have to start attacking the gordian knot at some point.

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Posted: 21 May 2014 02:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Certainly there is personal responsibility in this, but we have to start attacking the gordian knot at some point.


I agree. Sitting back and letting it happen isn’t an option for me either. But the most effective way to attack the knot is by pressuring those with the political power to first slow, then reverse the use of fossil fuel by replacing it with soft energy which we have discussed on this forum ad infinitum. For example we have the capability to produce alternate sources of energy without pumping tar sand into the system or drilling off shore until another BP spill screws up the food chain. the good news, if you can call it that, is that there are now around thirty well funded environmentalist groups in the U.S. alone not to mention many others in Europe so the grass roots organizations are getting some teeth. Now, if we only had the time. Get ready for one hellova hot Summer.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 21 May 2014 02:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 21 May 2014 02:08 PM

Certainly there is personal responsibility in this, but we have to start attacking the gordian knot at some point.


I agree. Sitting back and letting it happen isn’t an option for me either. But the most effective way to attack the knot is by pressuring those with the political power to first slow, then reverse the use of fossil fuel by replacing it with soft energy which we have discussed on this forum ad infinitum. For example we have the capability to produce alternate sources of energy without pumping tar sand into the system or drilling off shore until another BP spill screws up the food chain. the good news, if you can call it that, is that there are now around thirty well funded environmentalist groups in the U.S. alone not to mention many others in Europe so the grass roots organizations are getting some teeth. Now, if we only had the time. Get ready for one hellova hot Summer.


Cap’t Jack

Yah, as far as global warming goes we haven’t seen anything yet, the indications are trade winds have been loading the western Pacific with heat for years and that will likely be released when the winds abate.

The sad truth is that nothing real at a high political level is going to get done until they have a gun held to their heads.

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Posted: 21 May 2014 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Fuzzy Logic - 21 May 2014 02:29 PM

The sad truth is that nothing real at a high political level is going to get done until they have a gun held to their heads.

This was meant metaphorically btw in case it’s now in some flashing red box on the screen of a computer in some nondescript government office somewhere.

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Posted: 21 May 2014 03:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 21 May 2014 02:08 PM

... But the most effective way to attack the knot is by pressuring those with the political power to first slow, then reverse the use of fossil fuel by replacing it with soft energy which we have discussed on this forum ad infinitum…

Cap’t Jack

Those with the functional political power, to effect policy changes, are not, so much, the politicians or government officials, but are, rather, the economically elite.  I think that activists should be coming up with ideas targeting influencing what the economically elite want, if meaningful policy changes are going to actually happen.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 21 May 2014 04:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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TimB - 21 May 2014 03:57 PM

Those with the functional political power, to effect policy changes, are not, so much, the politicians or government officials, but are, rather, the economically elite.  I think that activists should be coming up with ideas targeting influencing what the economically elite want, if meaningful policy changes are going to actually happen.

This is bang on, if we stop buying their products then they lose power.

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Posted: 21 May 2014 06:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Fuzzy Logic - 08 May 2014 10:33 AM
Robert Walper - 07 May 2014 05:49 PM

Not surprising. The planet is undergoing the most significant and amazing change of its entire history. Technology is changing everything and the future will be absolutely amazing.

But only fools think such radical changes happen without cost or hardship. Even bringing a new life into this world requires a lot of pain and a lot of blood, but the end result is well worth it.

The birthing of the future is little different.

What a load of nonsense, we’re not on some magical quest for A.I., short term pursuit of profit is driving policies that will almost certainly bring an end to technological development as the chaos that results from climate change and ecological destruction causes social and geopolitical chaos.

Some people just don’t live in the real world I guess.


Ya think?  LOL

Lois

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Posted: 21 May 2014 11:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Fuzzy Logic - 21 May 2014 04:02 PM
TimB - 21 May 2014 03:57 PM

Those with the functional political power, to effect policy changes, are not, so much, the politicians or government officials, but are, rather, the economically elite.  I think that activists should be coming up with ideas targeting influencing what the economically elite want, if meaningful policy changes are going to actually happen.

This is bang on, if we stop buying their products then they lose power.

And buy the products of the economically elite who do the right thing.
And name and publicly shame the ones who don’t.
And name and praise the ones who do.

And… enlist the support of their friends and family members who would do the right thing.

And… any other ideas?

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 22 May 2014 03:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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This was meant metaphorically btw in case it’s now in some flashing red box on the screen of a computer in some nondescript government office somewhere.

Uhuh, too late Fuzzy. You wrote “gun”. Wait, what’s that buzzing I hear near your house? Hmm sounds like an RC plane and what are those black SUVs doing in your driveway? Who are the suits getting out? This looks serious! Naw, it’s just Mormons, whew.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 22 May 2014 06:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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TimB - 21 May 2014 11:56 PM
Fuzzy Logic - 21 May 2014 04:02 PM
TimB - 21 May 2014 03:57 PM

Those with the functional political power, to effect policy changes, are not, so much, the politicians or government officials, but are, rather, the economically elite.  I think that activists should be coming up with ideas targeting influencing what the economically elite want, if meaningful policy changes are going to actually happen.

This is bang on, if we stop buying their products then they lose power.

And buy the products of the economically elite who do the right thing.
And name and publicly shame the ones who don’t.
And name and praise the ones who do.

And… enlist the support of their friends and family members who would do the right thing.

And… any other ideas?

Yes, vote with our dollars too.

Also stop voting for people who are working against our interests…but that’s fairly obvious.

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Posted: 22 May 2014 07:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 22 May 2014 03:18 AM

This was meant metaphorically btw in case it’s now in some flashing red box on the screen of a computer in some nondescript government office somewhere.

Uhuh, too late Fuzzy. You wrote “gun”. Wait, what’s that buzzing I hear near your house? Hmm sounds like an RC plane and what are those black SUVs doing in your driveway? Who are the suits getting out? This looks serious! Naw, it’s just Mormons, whew.


Cap’t Jack

It’s such an entertaining world we live in now, it’s scary when people like Alex Jones start seeming sane.

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Posted: 22 May 2014 07:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Those with the functional political power, to effect policy changes, are not, so much, the politicians or government officials, but are, rather, the economically elite.  I think that activists should be coming up with ideas targeting influencing what the economically elite want, if meaningful policy changes are going to actually happen.


What the economically elite want is profit based and this is tied to their shareholders who want in on the game as well. So what are we consumers willing to give up to force their hands? Let’s start with oil, gasoline, transportation, new cars. See the link? Let’s press for mass transportation as most Europeans countries use, busses, trains, subways taxis. See that happening here in the land of the free? Remember the many times we all said “let’s boycott gas and drive down the price”. We tried it in the late 70’s and it obviously didn’t work. What about fast food? We’re food junkies so that won’t work either. No more GMO food? Look at Wallmart’s grocery section and the millions who buy fruit, meat and veggies there, and still do mainly because they don’t know what the letters GMO mean nor do they care; the food’s cheap and the budget’s limited. Name one item you choose to live without to force the economically elite to change the system. They won’t because their profits are derived from a semi-Laissez-faire economic policy. They don’t want government involvement. We do. We want consumer protection, higher wages and salaries, limits on work weeks, a clean environment etc. the elite don’t want to cater to us and they’ll use any means to prevent us from limiting their profits. The political arena is the only effective way to reign them in and force their hand.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 22 May 2014 07:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 22 May 2014 07:02 AM

Those with the functional political power, to effect policy changes, are not, so much, the politicians or government officials, but are, rather, the economically elite.  I think that activists should be coming up with ideas targeting influencing what the economically elite want, if meaningful policy changes are going to actually happen.


What the economically elite want is profit based and this is tied to their shareholders who want in on the game as well. So what are we consumers willing to give up to force their hands? Let’s start with oil, gasoline, transportation, new cars. See the link? Let’s press for mass transportation as most Europeans countries use, busses, trains, subways taxis. See that happening here in the land of the free? Remember the many times we all said “let’s boycott gas and drive down the price”. We tried it in the late 70’s and it obviously didn’t work. What about fast food? We’re food junkies so that won’t work either. No more GMO food? Look at Wallmart’s grocery section and the millions who buy fruit, meat and veggies there, and still do mainly because they don’t know what the letters GMO mean nor do they care; the food’s cheap and the budget’s limited. Name one item you choose to live without to force the economically elite to change the system. They won’t because their profits are derived from a semi-Laissez-faire economic policy. They don’t want government involvement. We do. We want consumer protection, higher wages and salaries, limits on work weeks, a clean environment etc. the elite don’t want to cater to us and they’ll use any means to prevent us from limiting their profits. The political arena is the only effective way to reign them in and force their hand.


Cap’t Jack

That’s a major challenge though as the 1% are more than willing to spend huge amounts of money to sway the vote in elections and have begun using pet judges like Scalia, Thomas and others to get things like Citizens United through the courts allowing unlimited use of wealth to influence elections. There is no longer a level playing field in the political arena.

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Posted: 22 May 2014 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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That’s a major challenge though as the 1% are more than willing to spend huge amounts of money to sway the vote in elections and have begun using pet judges like Scalia, Thomas and others to get things like Citizens United through the courts allowing unlimited use of wealth to influence elections. There is no longer a level playing field in the political arena.

True and I’m not denying that but who put them there? Ultra conservative presidents. And who put those presidents in power? The electorate. Now that we have a moderate (he’s by no means a liberal, he just appears that way in front of the right wing majority in the House) he’s hamstrung by conservative justices and congress and it may get worse this Fall. Remember also that all the Koch bros and their one percent buddies weren’t able to use their funds to keep him out. So even though the playing field isn’t level, public opinion can still be used to fight the one percenters. What we really need are more moderates and less extremists. We’re too polarized now with an “all or none” agenda.


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