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Sixth Mass Extinction
Posted: 22 May 2014 11:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 22 May 2014 07:02 AM

  ... The political arena is the only effective way to reign them in and force their hand.


Cap’t Jack

But Jack, perhaps I am over-generalizing the findings suggested in the study “Theories of American Democracy” that was published recently.  However, to the extent that their statistics are reliable and valid, re: the political arena, i.e., effecting actual policies, changes happen when they are supported by the economically elite, i.e., big corporations, wealthy people, and to a lesser degree, unions (and other mass based groups). Perhaps everyone who is really concerned about AGW should form or join a union or an association that seeks to protect the Earth from us humans (for our own sake).

[ Edited: 22 May 2014 11:59 AM by TimB ]
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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 22 May 2014 12:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 22 May 2014 10:32 AM

That’s a major challenge though as the 1% are more than willing to spend huge amounts of money to sway the vote in elections and have begun using pet judges like Scalia, Thomas and others to get things like Citizens United through the courts allowing unlimited use of wealth to influence elections. There is no longer a level playing field in the political arena.

True and I’m not denying that but who put them there? Ultra conservative presidents. And who put those presidents in power? The electorate. Now that we have a moderate (he’s by no means a liberal, he just appears that way in front of the right wing majority in the House) he’s hamstrung by conservative justices and congress and it may get worse this Fall. Remember also that all the Koch bros and their one percent buddies weren’t able to use their funds to keep him out. So even though the playing field isn’t level, public opinion can still be used to fight the one percenters. What we really need are more moderates and less extremists. We’re too polarized now with an “all or none” agenda.


Cap’t Jack

I agree, I’m a passionate believer in moderation, which can make it hard to stand myself.grin

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Posted: 22 May 2014 07:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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But Jack, perhaps I am over-generalizing the findings suggested in the study “Theories of American Democracy” that was published recently.  However, to the extent that their statistics are reliable and valid, re: the political arena, i.e., effecting actual policies, changes happen when they are supported by the economically elite, i.e., big corporations, wealthy people, and to a lesser degree, unions (and other mass based groups). Perhaps everyone who is really concerned about AGW should form or join a union or an association that seeks to protect the Earth from us humans (for our own sake).

I don’t think you’re over generalizing Tim and we all recognize the role played by the wealthy elite. I was using the last presidential election as an example of the push back by the middle class and lower (economically disadvantaged) class stemming the tide of literally millions of dollars of campaign funds from the Kochs and a few others. Yes they can and have influenced elections with massive propaganda campaigns and still fuel the fires of the extreme right. Remember FI how Carl Rove sputtered on Fox when he was sure that money defeated the popular vote. And yes there are progressive organizations, both moderate and on the left that can and have fought them successfully and will continue to do so. As to AGW how about it CC? Wanna form a national organization with a single platform? I’ll happily join. The labor union helped to get us the 40hour work week, higher wages, safe working conditions, medical care, and a fair contract with the employer. In a like manner, If enough of us stand up, get the real word out to the electorate and embarrass the deniers with facts maybe we can still make a difference and save what’s left for our kids. BTW the kids need to be taught too.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 25 July 2014 11:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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I just posted this in another thread but I think it will help explain why many people will never believe the science. I have been trying to educate people for years and I didn’t understand why the evidence didn’t convince people.

2014 Hans Jenny Memorial Lecture: Chris Mooney, “The Science of Why We Don’t Believe in Science” Skip the intro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANeW7U0qRKo

Intelligent people on this forum may always reject the science due to motivated reasoning as explained in the video above.

Look at the changes that have already happened at .8 degrees C and you likely understand what we are in for. As already mentioned ocean acidification is already a huge threat.

Then consider the many feed backs in the Arctic and we are now just learning about the dark algae that is growing on the Greenland Ice Cap.

The Makenzie River basin is the size of France, Spain, Portugal and Germany put together so consider how changes in albedo in that one river basin alone will change the Arctic ocean which is surrounded by river basins.

Are we past the point of no return??

Arctic Death Spiral and the Methane Time Bomb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6pFDu7lLV4

Arctic Feedback Dynamics Presentation by David Wasdell (Part 1) You can find part 2 easily
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjZaFjXfLec

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Posted: 25 July 2014 11:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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An interview with Dr. Natalie Shakhova who is an Eastern Siberian Arctic shelf researcher who has been studying the area for ten years. The ice used to be meters thick, then 40 cm thick and now it is so broken up they can’t get out on it.

She says that the methane release could happen in decades and her husband interrupts her and says a large methane release could happen at any time. Some of the clathrates are only 50 meters deep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx1Jxk6kjbQ

Cracks in the ice create the pathways for the methane escape.

A recent study conducted at Yale University indicated that only 15% of Americans understand the immediate threat of climate change.

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Posted: 26 July 2014 04:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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Extinction6, since you are a new member (welcome) you might note in the rules that double posting the same item in two threads is not allowed.  The Administrator may delete one of the duplicates.

Occam

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Succinctness, clarity’s core.

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Posted: 27 July 2014 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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Occam. - 26 July 2014 04:10 AM

Extinction6, since you are a new member (welcome) you might note in the rules that double posting the same item in two threads is not allowed.  The Administrator may delete one of the duplicates.

Occam

Thanks for letting me know!

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Posted: 27 July 2014 01:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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extinction6 - 25 July 2014 11:09 PM

I just posted this in another thread but I think it will help explain why many people will never believe the science. I have been trying to educate people for years and I didn’t understand why the evidence didn’t convince people.

2014 Hans Jenny Memorial Lecture: Chris Mooney, “The Science of Why We Don’t Believe in Science” Skip the intro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANeW7U0qRKo

Intelligent people on this forum may always reject the science due to motivated reasoning as explained in the video above.

Look at the changes that have already happened at .8 degrees C and you likely understand what we are in for. As already mentioned ocean acidification is already a huge threat.

Then consider the many feed backs in the Arctic and we are now just learning about the dark algae that is growing on the Greenland Ice Cap.

The Makenzie River basin is the size of France, Spain, Portugal and Germany put together so consider how changes in albedo in that one river basin alone will change the Arctic ocean which is surrounded by river basins.

Are we past the point of no return??

Arctic Death Spiral and the Methane Time Bomb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6pFDu7lLV4

Arctic Feedback Dynamics Presentation by David Wasdell (Part 1) You can find part 2 easily
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjZaFjXfLec

Evidence shmevidence. Too many people find it much more interesting to believe what makes them happy and what frightens them. Who needs evidence? They don’t know what it is, anyway, so why bother with it?

Lois

[ Edited: 31 July 2014 04:43 PM by LoisL ]
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Posted: 27 July 2014 03:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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Extinction6, as an inveterate wise-ass myself, I thought I’d point out that Lois is doing the same, a bit of irony. 

One of the problems is that scientific reasoning requires following a chain of logic using disparate data.  And, unless one is trained how to do this early, it’s just frustrating to most people.  They get confused so they shut down anything to do with the topic. 

Most people have short memories.  When I was a kid in So. Cal. I recall having to wear knee-high boots to get across the streets during winter rains to get to school.  I recently mentioned this in a group, and everyone looked at me as if I were crazy.  We’ve never had rain like that as far back as they could recall (about ten years). 

People may be annoyed that food prices have risen greatly a the nearby markets so they just drive another twenty miles to go to a wholesale store to save a few dollars.  The fact that they have to increase their gas and auto expenses by more than that, but later, doesn’t connect.  Similarly, the fact that they are dumping more CO2 in the atmosphere contributing to the droughts, which contribute to lower plant yields, which cause higher prices is too complex a series of reasoning.

Occam

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Posted: 31 July 2014 09:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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LoisL - 27 July 2014 01:46 PM

Who needs evidence?

…when you got God on your side.  snake

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How many times do lies need to be exposed
before we have permission to trash them?

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