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Children crossing Mexican border
Posted: 13 June 2014 09:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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VYAZMA - 13 June 2014 10:26 AM
Lausten - 13 June 2014 10:00 AM

That we can’t help every child in the world is not a reason to not help the ones that actually walking up to us and obviously need help. It’s a rant with no logic.

This kind of influx is a burden on any county. Children can’t work, they need to be cared for.

The problem is we don’t want to admit that our economy needs those jobs.

So what are you saying…these children are all destined for a life of indentured service picking fruit?
Is that how you value them? You already have jobs in mind for them it seems. Picking onions or cleaning the floors at Wal-Mart.
Meanwhile the value of labor gets watered down all the way up through the US Working Class. In construction, manufacturing, service jobs
etc..

We don’t want to pay more for strawberries and lettuce or the crap at Wal-Mart.


Who says? I’ll pay more. Lot’s of people will pay more. This is a tired, old argument.

So we pretend like immigrants are taking jobs we want and abusing our health care system.

It’s not pretending! It’s real. Illegal immigrants are taking jobs Americans want.
I’ve seen it hundreds of times. In factories, and construction sites.

It is a tired old argument that food costs will rise substantially if farm laborers are paid decently. It isn’t what is paid to the farm workers and pickers that raise the cost of food. It’s the profits of the farmers and the middlemen. Paying minimum wage to the farm laborers would add only a few pennies to the cost of that head of lettuce. Meanwhile, we taxpayers pay for the healthcare of the workers and for welfare costs when there is no work, outside of what shows up as the cost of food because it’s paid for outside of the market. Most people never see or recognize those costs and don’t think of them as associated with the cost of production and distribution of food.  We are already heavily subsidizing the profits of the farmers and middlemen and paying for the healthcare and welfare of the workers because they are not being paid enough. That way the farmers and middlemen don’t have to pay those costs out of their profits. Most people don’t realize this because the cost of the subsidies don’t show up at the grocery stores.

And this does not happen only in food production and distribution. The taxpayer pays for all kinds of subsidies to businessowners, and their profits rise because of it.

Lois

[ Edited: 13 June 2014 10:02 PM by Lois ]
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Posted: 14 June 2014 12:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Lois - 12 June 2014 06:30 PM

Is the US going to accept every country’s  excess children, give them amnesty, feed, clothe, shelter and educate as many as want to come here or whose parents send here or who represent a problem Mexico wants to get rid of? Reunite them with their parents who also crossed the border illegally?

Lois

If they can be turned into potential voters, then probably yes.

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Posted: 14 June 2014 06:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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VYAZMA - 13 June 2014 08:21 PM

This point is tertiary to my main thrust anyways. Why you singled this out is beyond me.(not really…)

All of your points show a complete lack of understanding of how the world works. I’m not going to waste my time on all of them. Build better roads with what? Rocks and their bare hands? Fight corruption how? Your suggesting they act like they grew up in a middle class society with opportunity. You’re blaming the victim.

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Posted: 14 June 2014 08:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Lausten - 14 June 2014 06:08 AM
VYAZMA - 13 June 2014 08:21 PM

This point is tertiary to my main thrust anyways. Why you singled this out is beyond me.(not really…)

All of your points show a complete lack of understanding of how the world works. I’m not going to waste my time on all of them. Build better roads with what? Rocks and their bare hands? Fight corruption how? Your suggesting they act like they grew up in a middle class society with opportunity. You’re blaming the victim.

I’m not blaming anyone. I just don’t want more illegal immigrants coming to this country.

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Posted: 14 June 2014 10:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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VYAZMA - 14 June 2014 08:44 AM
Lausten - 14 June 2014 06:08 AM
VYAZMA - 13 June 2014 08:21 PM

This point is tertiary to my main thrust anyways. Why you singled this out is beyond me.(not really…)

All of your points show a complete lack of understanding of how the world works. I’m not going to waste my time on all of them. Build better roads with what? Rocks and their bare hands? Fight corruption how? Your suggesting they act like they grew up in a middle class society with opportunity. You’re blaming the victim.

I’m not blaming anyone. I just don’t want more illegal immigrants coming to this country.

Why don’t you build better walls. Get active in politics. Fight corruption.
Work at it. That’s how it’s done.

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Posted: 14 June 2014 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Lausten - 14 June 2014 10:09 AM

Why don’t you build better walls. Get active in politics. Fight corruption.
Work at it. That’s how it’s done.

I don’t see corruption being a problem in this issue.
A significant majority of Americans don’t won’t more illegal immigrants.
We don’t need walls. We need better enforcement of existing labor laws.
That’s the best “wall” we can build.

The US and other countries are currently going through the throes of backlash against immigration-legal or illegal.
It’s quite easy to get active in politics in regards to these issues.

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Posted: 14 June 2014 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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First, while many citizens are against illegal immigration, many businesses quietly promote it because they get good value for extremely low pay.

Second, a more pressing problem is legal immigration.  Rather than subsidizing our own advanced education, companies go overseas to hire well trained people to come here for high paying jobs, thus keeping U.S. citizens out of them.

Occam

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Posted: 14 June 2014 01:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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VYAZMA - 14 June 2014 10:20 AM

We don’t need walls. We need better enforcement of existing labor laws.

Yes, EMPLOYERS should be held to current laws and current laws should be strengthened.
And here’s what happens when you really get fought on immigrants
And apparently that kind of law has a negative affect on the economy, “HB 56 will reduce the Alabama economy by $40 million”

[ Edited: 14 June 2014 01:32 PM by Lausten ]
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Posted: 14 June 2014 08:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Occam. - 14 June 2014 12:06 PM

First, while many citizens are against illegal immigration, many businesses quietly promote it because they get good value for extremely low pay.
Occam

One Chamber of Commerce Board Member vote is equivalent to 50 regular citizens votes.

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Posted: 14 June 2014 08:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Lausten - 14 June 2014 01:19 PM
VYAZMA - 14 June 2014 10:20 AM

We don’t need walls. We need better enforcement of existing labor laws.

Yes, EMPLOYERS should be held to current laws and current laws should be strengthened.
And here’s what happens when you really get fought on immigrants
And apparently that kind of law has a negative affect on the economy, “HB 56 will reduce the Alabama economy by $40 million”

Whoopie do. Big companies want to continue a system of indentured servitude.
Then let’s show a picture of hard working man saying prayers at the dinner table. I don’t care.
Big companies-Poultry farms, vegetable farms, hog farms. All billion dollar industries.
They could be paying people 45,000-60,000 dollars a year doing that stuff with full benefits etc.
Or they could take advantage of an old system whereby shadow people sneak around and do the work for 1/3 or 1/2 the price.
Great employees!! Can’t complain. Can’t file for workers comp. Can’t redress grievances.
Can be replaced at any time. Can be worked long hours. Can be worked temporarily.
And American workers wonder why their wages are so low. Why they have no benefits that are worthwhile.
Illegal immigrants are one of the factors that have eroded US Labor Power.
Just like out-sourcing work to other countries.
They either bring the work to foreigners or bring the foreigners to the work.
And alot of it is jobs American will do…or used to do.

That’s the bottom line.
Great, you get a warm fuzzy feeling sticking up for people you can relate to. That’s your prerogative.

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Posted: 14 June 2014 10:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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VYAZMA - 14 June 2014 10:20 AM
Lausten - 14 June 2014 10:09 AM

Why don’t you build better walls. Get active in politics. Fight corruption.
Work at it. That’s how it’s done.

I don’t see corruption being a problem in this issue.
A significant majority of Americans don’t won’t more illegal immigrants.
We don’t need walls. We need better enforcement of existing labor laws.
That’s the best “wall” we can build.

The US and other countries are currently going through the throes of backlash against immigration-legal or illegal.
It’s quite easy to get active in politics in regards to these issues.

I agree, and have for some time thought, that effectively prohibiting employers from hiring illegal immigrants would be the most effective way of addressing the problem.

And building walls?  If you had ever been to Big Bend National Park, you would recognize the absolute absurdity of building and policing walls across our entire border.

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Posted: 15 June 2014 12:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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VYAZMA - 13 June 2014 09:49 AM

I completely agree.  This immigrant issue is the biggest Boondoggle the US Liberals and or Left has.
“Oh, but we’re a Nation of Immigrants!”
Yeah, we are a nation of immigrants that came here legally!! At a time when the country was expanding exponentially.
At a time when the US made quotas for legal immigrants based on economic needs and projections.

I don’t think the US or it’s people are in any position to continue taking in “the tired, the poor,
the huddled masses, yearning to breath free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shores”.

If we were to do that—and we never actually did, despite the overblown poetry—the United States would be overwhelmed with immigrants, the country would soon become unrecognizable and the economy would be devastated. Does anyone think that if everyone who wants to come here were allowed to come here that there would be jobs for even a small percentage of them, even if they do want to work? We ALREADY have an unemployment problem, a housing problem, an abandoned and neglected children problem, a fecundity problem, a homeless problem, a welfare problem, a medical care problem, an educational facilities problem, a corruption and crime problem, a terrorism problem, a unfair taxation problem—all with the people we have here NOW.. What are we going to do with all the world’s huddled masses? They’ll be huddled here, too, and jobless, hungry, unsheltered and barely clothed—and so will most of the rest of us. And who is going to pay for it? We can’t get our present taxation system straightened out NOW. Anyone who thinks we should take the poem on the Statue of Liberty literally has absolutely no sense of planning for the future and no practical vision of what the future would look like under those circumstances. If that wouldn’t kill the goose that laid the golden egg, I don’t know what would. We’d be writing our own epitaph. And where would the world’s huddled masses go then in order to breathe free?

Lois

[ Edited: 15 June 2014 12:58 AM by Lois ]
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Posted: 15 June 2014 01:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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mid atlantic - 14 June 2014 12:00 AM
Lois - 12 June 2014 06:30 PM

Is the US going to accept every country’s  excess children, give them amnesty, feed, clothe, shelter and educate as many as want to come here or whose parents send here or who represent a problem Mexico wants to get rid of? Reunite them with their parents who also crossed the border illegally?

Lois

If they can be turned into potential voters, then probably yes.

They won’t be, though. They will be turned into poor, hungry, jobless and homeless people, most of whom don’t vote or can’t vote.

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Posted: 15 June 2014 03:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Lois - 15 June 2014 01:00 AM
mid atlantic - 14 June 2014 12:00 AM
Lois - 12 June 2014 06:30 PM

Is the US going to accept every country’s  excess children, give them amnesty, feed, clothe, shelter and educate as many as want to come here or whose parents send here or who represent a problem Mexico wants to get rid of? Reunite them with their parents who also crossed the border illegally?

Lois

If they can be turned into potential voters, then probably yes.

They won’t be, though. They will be turned into poor, hungry, jobless and homeless people, most of whom don’t vote or can’t vote.

You don’t think they will be rescued by Liberals? Or simply wise business owners?

[ Edited: 15 June 2014 03:07 AM by mid atlantic ]
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Posted: 15 June 2014 03:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Keep in mind, illegal unskilled laborers will work for low pay, no benefits, endure s**thole conditions, show up anywhere, anytime you want them to, and have a cheerful attitude about it. That can’t be beat. It simply cannot be beat, for some business owners to go this route.

The Brown people have cornered the market on cheap unskilled labor.

If we want to keep American labor American…. the ONLY SOLUTION is for business owners to not hire Meso-Americans, out of a sense of racial/nationalist pride…..to be openly racist/xenophobic. They will lose money, and productivity, but racism has to be their motivation. Nothing else will work.

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