3 of 7
3
Children crossing Mexican border
Posted: 15 June 2014 06:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1294
Joined  2009-10-21
Lois - 15 June 2014 01:00 AM
mid atlantic - 14 June 2014 12:00 AM
Lois - 12 June 2014 06:30 PM

Is the US going to accept every country’s  excess children, give them amnesty, feed, clothe, shelter and educate as many as want to come here or whose parents send here or who represent a problem Mexico wants to get rid of? Reunite them with their parents who also crossed the border illegally?

Lois

If they can be turned into potential voters, then probably yes.

They won’t be, though. They will be turned into poor, hungry, jobless and homeless people, most of whom don’t vote or can’t vote.

Did you read the articles I linked? They only keep coming because we have jobs. We are one of the richest countries in the history of the world Lois and all you can do is list problems and claim that if you happen to be the most recent group of immigrants that lives here, it’s your right to keep it. Simply because our ancestors killed millions of the natives who once lived here, that somehow makes the riches here ours. That is so ridiculous and completely racists.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 06:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1294
Joined  2009-10-21
VYAZMA - 14 June 2014 08:59 PM
Lausten - 14 June 2014 01:19 PM
VYAZMA - 14 June 2014 10:20 AM

We don’t need walls. We need better enforcement of existing labor laws.

Yes, EMPLOYERS should be held to current laws and current laws should be strengthened.
And here’s what happens when you really get fought on immigrants
And apparently that kind of law has a negative affect on the economy, “HB 56 will reduce the Alabama economy by $40 million”

Whoopie do. Big companies want to continue a system of indentured servitude.
Then let’s show a picture of hard working man saying prayers at the dinner table. I don’t care.
Big companies-Poultry farms, vegetable farms, hog farms. All billion dollar industries.
They could be paying people 45,000-60,000 dollars a year doing that stuff with full benefits etc.
Or they could take advantage of an old system whereby shadow people sneak around and do the work for 1/3 or 1/2 the price.
Great employees!! Can’t complain. Can’t file for workers comp. Can’t redress grievances.
Can be replaced at any time. Can be worked long hours. Can be worked temporarily.
And American workers wonder why their wages are so low. Why they have no benefits that are worthwhile.
Illegal immigrants are one of the factors that have eroded US Labor Power.
Just like out-sourcing work to other countries.
They either bring the work to foreigners or bring the foreigners to the work.
And alot of it is jobs American will do…or used to do.

That’s the bottom line.
Great, you get a warm fuzzy feeling sticking up for people you can relate to. That’s your prerogative.

It seems we agree on the problem but not on the solution. The problem with your solution is, even if we keep other workers from coming into this country, we still have the same “job creators” treating us just as poorly as they always have. We still have people who think they own people. But turning on the Mexicans, you are helping those who want to exploit us. Economies are built by people doing all the work, not by people who own the buildings. We’ve let them make laws that favor them. Keeping this cheap source of labor is one of those laws. That’s what needs to change.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 07:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14

The only Immigration Reform that’s going to happen are laws that incentivize more illegal aliens to come here.
This whole discussion is moot. The existing illegals are here to stay, and it’s likely millions more will be coming.

[ Edited: 15 June 2014 08:20 AM by VYAZMA ]
 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
mid atlantic - 15 June 2014 03:29 AM

If we want to keep American labor American…. the ONLY SOLUTION is for business owners to not hire Meso-Americans, out of a sense of racial/nationalist pride…..to be openly racist/xenophobic. They will lose money, and productivity, but racism has to be their motivation. Nothing else will work.

No it doesn’t have to be racist!!  The US has a widely diverse array of races which are US citizens.
Nationalist motives are acceptable however. So you are partially correct.
Please don’t confuse Nationalism with racism!

Quoting myself….This is nationalism:

I got that. It made sense to me. The citizens of that country had their own national identity and forged their infrastructure and
economic heritage. They had a compact with the state for certain guarantees in return for a degree of loyalty and taxes.
In return they were afforded protections against their livelihoods.
It’s pretty standard. The vast majority of Nations have immigration laws(and trade laws!!) and work rules and visas. That’s why.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 09:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
Lausten - 15 June 2014 06:36 AM

It seems we agree on the problem but not on the solution.


No. I don’t agree with anything you have.

The problem with your solution is, even if we keep other workers from coming into this country, we still have the same “job creators” treating us just as poorly as they always have.

Wrong. The quality of life for the American Labor Force has been steadily declining. It used to be fairly good.
The decline in Unions is just one example of this.
Illegal immigrant labor is one of the factors in this declining quality of life and employment. They are watering down the general pool of labor.
Increasing the amount of available workers allows “job creators” to be more selective in who they hire.
It’s that simple. It’s supply and demand!
But even if that weren’t the case it doesn’t matter.  The illegal aliens shouldn’t be here in the first place. It’s a disintegration of law and order!

We still have people who think they own people. But turning on the Mexicans, you are helping those who want to exploit us.

Did you just spin this out of thin air? Garbage!

Economies are built by people doing all the work, not by people who own the buildings. We’ve let them make laws that favor them. Keeping this cheap source of labor is one of those laws. That’s what needs to change.

Again more sentences from you that make zero sense.
Stop trying to do the math, history or politics Lausten. You don’t have a clue.
Just profess that you are sympathetic to the plight of illegal immigrants. We’ll be able to communicate much more effectively.
No one will be able to begrudge you for your sympathies towards illegal immigrants.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 09:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1294
Joined  2009-10-21
VYAZMA - 15 June 2014 09:13 AM

We still have people who think they own people. But turning on the Mexicans, you are helping those who want to exploit us.

Did you just spin this out of thin air? Garbage!

No. It’s the entire history of prejudice. Get people to hate other people who are just like them, except for their ethnicity. Get them to focus on fighting each other for the scraps you are throwing them. If I’m wrong, then you need to come up with a justification for why you get to have everything you have. You can’t deny that America was built on war and slavery. If we somehow deserve this land and others don’t, then you are saying all of that is just and right.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 09:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1294
Joined  2009-10-21
mid atlantic - 15 June 2014 03:29 AM

Keep in mind, illegal unskilled laborers will work for low pay, no benefits, endure s**thole conditions, show up anywhere, anytime you want them to, and have a cheerful attitude about it. That can’t be beat. It simply cannot be beat, for some business owners to go this route.

The Brown people have cornered the market on cheap unskilled labor.

If we want to keep American labor American…. the ONLY SOLUTION is for business owners to not hire Meso-Americans, out of a sense of racial/nationalist pride…..to be openly racist/xenophobic. They will lose money, and productivity, but racism has to be their motivation. Nothing else will work.

So much for code words for racism. Wow. You got the part about willingness to do s*** work right, but you need to ask yourself why? Someone would only do that if the alternative was worse; slavery, prostitution and starvation.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 10:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
Lausten - 15 June 2014 09:51 AM


No. It’s the entire history of prejudice. Get people to hate other people who are just like them, except for their ethnicity. Get them to focus on fighting each other for the scraps you are throwing them. If I’m wrong, then you need to come up with a justification for why you get to have everything you have. You can’t deny that America was built on war and slavery. If we somehow deserve this land and others don’t, then you are saying all of that is just and right.

There we go. Why didn’t you just spout this off at the beginning? We could have saved so much time.
You’re sympathetic to the plight of people from other nations and their ability to sneak into the US illegally and get work at any cost.
At any cost to the fabric of the US society and it’s economy and Labor Structure.
Regretfully you are using words like hate and racism.
Predictable. I was wondering when you were going to resort to that.
As usual Mid-Atlantic’s low-level posts opened the door right up for you.
MidAtlantic speaks for MidAtlantic. Not for everybody.
I’m a United States citizen. I’m vested in the prosperity of this nation and it’s citizens.
Not the citizens of other nations. I wish them well, but I’m plugged into this Nation and National Identity.
I hope that the better it does, the better I do.
I don’t see how millions of illegal aliens coming here to work and live can improve our situation.
I’m a proponent of decreasing population and poverty.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 11:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3052
Joined  2011-11-04

And what can we do about those damn Canadian immigrants (Ted Cruz) coming in and destroying the fabric of our society?

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 11:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
TimB - 15 June 2014 11:02 AM

And what can we do about those damn Canadian immigrants (Ted Cruz) coming in and destroying the fabric of our society?

You don’t see millions of Canadians emigrating legally or illegally to the US. Why?  Because they have built a strong nation and have a strong sense of national identity. They are proud of what they have.
But if they were streaming across by the millions I would be against that too. Race has nothing to do with it.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 11:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3052
Joined  2011-11-04
VYAZMA - 15 June 2014 11:14 AM
TimB - 15 June 2014 11:02 AM

And what can we do about those damn Canadian immigrants (Ted Cruz) coming in and destroying the fabric of our society?

You don’t see millions of Canadians emigrating legally or illegally to the US. Why?  Because they have built a strong nation and have a strong sense of national identity. They are proud of what they have.
But if they were streaming across by the millions I would be against that too. Race has nothing to do with it.

I’m not sure that Canadian is a race.  But, IMO, one Ted Cruz is more damaging than (at least) a thousand refugees.  (But to be clear, I am being tongue-in-cheek about painting all Canadians with a broad and disgusting Ted Cruz stroke).

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 11:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
Lausten - 15 June 2014 09:51 AM

No. It’s the entire history of prejudice.

No it’s not. You just need a bogeyman to support your argument.

Get people to hate other people who are just like them, except for their ethnicity.

Definitely a factor in many places, including the US. We are trying to fix that here within our own national identity.
What does that have to do with illegal immigrants?

Get them to focus on fighting each other for the scraps you are throwing them.

Among American Citizens yes….what does this have to do with illegal immigration?
Illegal immigrants just compound the problem for people like myself trying to fix what’s wrong with The USA.

If I’m wrong, then you need to come up with a justification for why you get to have everything you have.

LOL!! What?

You can’t deny that America was built on war and slavery. If we somehow deserve this land and others don’t, then you are saying all of that is just and right.

Most countries were built on War. What’s your point?
The US is slowly but surely putting it’s slavery past behind it. It still has a long way to go. What does this have to do with illegal immigrants?
Illegal immigrants do a disservice to all of the other races which come here legally and try to integrate into the fabric of our society.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people assume that certain ethnicities were here illegally. It denigrates the people who came here lawfully.
Nobody deserves the land in which they live. They are legally entitled to it through Jus Sanguinis and Jus Solis. It’s called law.
Illegal immigrants are law-breakers. Your impassioned plea for One World of Peace Politics is ridiculous and unobtainable.
Furthermore it’s just a ruse to justify the admission of millions of illegal immigrants who are a growing parasite on this country.

God only knows how the presence of 10s of millions of illegal immigrants have affected lawmakers decisions on things like health care and other social contracts. Yeah! Really!! It’s holding law abiding, US citizens back.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 11:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
TimB - 15 June 2014 11:29 AM

I’m not sure that Canadian is a race.

Exactly, nor is Mexican, Honduran, or Guatemalan.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 11:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3052
Joined  2011-11-04

There are enormous numbers of persons in the world fleeing from not only economic hardships around the world, but from violence.  With AGW continuing unabated, their will be more and more in the future.  Aside from doing what we can, internally, to not encourage them to flee here, we should also examine and adjust our policies in regards to other nations, that may contribute to those nations being a place to flee from.  Oh yeah, and converting to clean renewable energy, ASAP, would not be a bad idea, either.

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 June 2014 11:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
TimB - 15 June 2014 11:46 AM

There are enormous numbers of persons in the world fleeing from not only economic hardships around the world, but from violence.  With AGW continuing unabated, their will be more and more in the future.  Aside from doing what we can, internally, to not encourage them to flee here, we should also examine and adjust our policies in regards to other nations, that may contribute to those nations being a place to flee from.  Oh yeah, and converting to clean renewable energy, ASAP, would not be a bad idea, either.

Yes there’s that too. But usually those folks flee here with our welcoming. 
Vietnamese, Hmong Chinese, Iraqis, Sudanese, etc etc..
They are welcomed here by the US government and will become legal US citizens. I think that’s great.
I welcome them all.  I love their food and cultures. The US planned for them to come here. We assisted them and provided them with housing and other means to get started. Awesome!!
That’s the US that I know and love.
Not millions of unaccounted for and undocumented people.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
   
3 of 7
3