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Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Accidents?
Posted: 08 July 2014 04:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Alter2Ego - 08 July 2014 03:56 PM

This thread is about whether or not precision in the natural happened by accident or whether it required the intervention of the Intelligent Designer aka Jehovah.

You have provided no evidence the precision in nature required a designer. Show that and I’ll discuss it with you. Even if you could prove the universe required an intelligent designer that would not prove the designer was Jehovah.

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Posted: 08 July 2014 04:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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CuthbertJ - 08 July 2014 03:09 PM

I believe you missed my post: If scientists proved that there was an intelligent creator, and it turned out to be a female who believed Islam was the true religion, would you accept their proof? I just want to find out if you’re in this for the truth or for some not-so-obscure ulterior motive?

ALTER2EGO -to- LAUSTEN:
Stop trying to change the goal post. I am not interested in your speculations.  My OP says nothing about which religion anyone is supposed to belong to.  It simply presents the scientific evidence that precision could not have occurred in the natural world by accidental or by spontaneous means.  Deal with that.

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“That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.” (Psalms 83:18)

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Posted: 08 July 2014 04:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Alter2Ego - 08 July 2014 04:08 PM
CuthbertJ - 08 July 2014 03:09 PM

I believe you missed my post: If scientists proved that there was an intelligent creator, and it turned out to be a female who believed Islam was the true religion, would you accept their proof? I just want to find out if you’re in this for the truth or for some not-so-obscure ulterior motive?

ALTER2EGO -to- LAUSTEN:
Stop trying to change the goal post. I am not interested in your speculations.  My OP says nothing about which religion anyone is supposed to belong to.  It simply presents the scientific evidence that precision could not have occurred in the natural world by accidental or by spontaneous means.  Deal with that.

Now you are being intellectually dishonest, as shown by the quote in my post above. You put in the “aka Jehovah” bit. Now you say your original post does not say anything about religion. While technically true, your later posts expose your agenda. Busted!

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Posted: 08 July 2014 05:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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DarronS - 08 July 2014 04:01 PM

Even if you could prove the universe required an intelligent designer that would not prove the designer was Jehovah.

His name is George.

psik

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Posted: 08 July 2014 05:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Our very own George?

While I don’t agree with everything George says he’d make a much better deity than Jehovah, but then so would most of us.

Are we derailing the thread? LOL

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Posted: 08 July 2014 05:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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psikeyhackr - 08 July 2014 05:21 PM
DarronS - 08 July 2014 04:01 PM

Even if you could prove the universe required an intelligent designer that would not prove the designer was Jehovah.

His name is George.

psik

Wow and I though it was the
Flying Spaghetti Monster

flying_spaghetti_monster_296.jpg

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Posted: 08 July 2014 05:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Or the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

ipulogoblack_small.gif

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Posted: 08 July 2014 05:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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My favorite god CC! Now that’s a diety you can really sink your teeth into. Yum, the old Gothic god nudelauflauf!


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 08 July 2014 06:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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If you write anything else to me that does not address the questions in my OP, do not hold your breath waiting for any further responses from me.  None will be forthcoming.

You apparently have no intention of debating any issue, especially not one where you have no rational response. You want to preach.  You can’t preach to skeptics and you can’t set the parameters for debate with skeptics. We are an open free-thinking group and we have our own rules of debate, which are to allow any debate to take its natural course. There are plenty of groups where all members will agree with you and where you won’t get a negative response. I suggest you join one of them. Joining this one has been a waste of time for me and apparently for you as well.

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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
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Posted: 08 July 2014 06:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Alter2Ego - 08 July 2014 02:51 PM
Lausten - 08 July 2014 01:08 PM

I see you have been cutting and pasting this argument around the internet for over a year now. At least you shortened it for us (thank you Jesus). I also see that you ignore every comment ever made and fail to engage anyone in any real discussion. So, don’t complain about not getting quality answers here, we have seen posts like this before.

Read this. At the bottom there is a link to TalkOrigins.org. If you can come up with good counter arguments to anything said on those two websites, come back and we’ll talk.

ALTER2EGO -to- LAUSTEN:

I debate the same topics wherever I go because I and others find them to be meaningful and because I want to discuss them with as many different people as possible.


BTW:  I do not click bare weblinks.  You need to briefly quote the relevant portion from your source, in addition to providing the weblink.  You also need to explain what point the quoted portion from your source is supposed to be making.

A. You aren’t debating.
B. You want to lecture, not discuss.
C. What is a “bare” link? The link is to Iron Chariots, an established site with excellent information, no ads, no spam, no pop-ups.
D. You need to learn about the topic you posted. Others have already provided ways for you to do that and you have not taken their advice. Why should I waste my time?

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Posted: 08 July 2014 06:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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A troll, is a troll, is a troll. Even if they don’t know they are a troll. A righteous troll indeed.

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Posted: 08 July 2014 06:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Handydan - 08 July 2014 06:54 PM

A troll, is a troll, is a troll. Even if they don’t know they are a troll. A righteous troll indeed.

The worst kind.

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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
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Posted: 08 July 2014 06:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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I think our universe is the result of a failed physics experiment somewhere else. This makes our universe an example of unintelligent design.

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Posted: 08 July 2014 07:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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What’s sad is, actual mathematicians will debate whether math is discovered or created, is it written in nature or is it a description of nature. It is as the heart of how do we know what we know, what is truth and other classic philosophical questions. But A2E turns it into a pointless exercise of defending the argument from ignorance.

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Posted: 11 July 2014 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Alter2Ego - 08 July 2014 02:40 PM

DEFINITION OF “ACCIDENT”:
a nonessential event that HAPPENS BY CHANCE and has undesirable or unfortunate results.” (Source: Websters New Collegiate Dictionary)

The fact that all of the first 60-discovered elements are precise and they are all interrelated is the first clue that theirs is not an “unfortunate result” because an “unfortunate result” would have caused them NOT to be interrelated and would have caused NOT to each be precise.

I think I see the problem, Alter.  You START with a definition of “accident” as “an unfortunate result”, in other words “something bad” and go from there.  No wonder your conclusion is skewed!  So let’s just drop the word “accident”.  The question you’re asking is this:  Is the order inherent in the universe a natural consequence of what it is, Or was this order deliberately imposed on the universe by some outside intelligence?

We Naturalists go with the former.  When the big singularity happened and created the universe we live in, these are just the laws of nature we ended up with, like it or not.  The fortunate result for us is that these laws allowed the evolution of complex living things like ourselves.  If they hadn’t, we would not be here arguing about it.  Either way it was not an “accident” the way you definite it.  It is simply natural.

Try to look at it from our point of view for a change.  Your challenge to us is to explain how this “precision” just randomly appeared.  The question makes no sense to us because it’s simply the way the universe is.  Could YOU explain why it was necessary for this “precision” to be deliberately imposed?  Chances are you can’t.  It’s just the way you were brought up to believe is normal.

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