1 of 2
1
Child Immigration
Posted: 07 July 2014 07:41 PM   [ Ignore ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  709
Joined  2014-06-20

Whatever position regarding immigration you take, please try to answer these questions. 

What do you think the federal government or Obama should do about the unaccompanied minors coming across the border, keeping in mind what CAN be done legally and what is likely to work, considering the inability of Congress to pass any law regarding immigration and for the border patrol to enforce any law that is passed?

In the meantime, what should be done with the unaccompanied minors, how should their immediate and long-term needs be met and where should the money to pay for their care come from, again considering the apparent inability of anyone in government to act? 

Should their care be left to the states where the children  cross the border with no help from the Federal government (which may not  be offered, anyway)? 

Should anything be done to prevent more children from coming across the border, even if they are escaping war, gangs,  kidnapping and sex trafficking? 

Should all refugee children from anywhere in the world be allowed to enter the United States? If so, how should their care be handled, considering how our government is supposed to work? If not, how should it be decided which ones may enter and what should be done with the ones who are refused entry? 

What do you think Obama should do in the face of this growing crisis and a hogtied Congress, if anything? 

LL

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 July 2014 04:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
LoisL - 07 July 2014 07:41 PM

Should anything be done to prevent more children from coming across the border, even if they are escaping war, gangs,  kidnapping and sex trafficking? 
LL

It’s not all that. Those are just catch words to build sympathy for the cause of illegal immigrants. That’s a very small percentage.
Most just want to escape boredom and poverty. Some want to get here because other family members have already preceded them.
Or, in the case of children, they are sometimes preceding their families and parents. Once the kids make it here, they’re generally in. Allowed to stay.
Now the rest of the family gets a free pass when they get in. Because officials don’t like separating families.

As far as their levels of education, standards of living etc…not good.
That undoubtedly affects the US and it’s standards of living.

We need to raise the standards of living for the US citizens who were born here or immigrated here legally.
We cannot afford to absorb millions of illegal immigrants. They are lowering and diluting our standards of living.
We have enough indigenous poor. Why are we importing millions more?

It’s really a shame that this is a wedge issue with groups like the Tea Party and Conservatives being against illegal immigration.
And liberals and Democrats being generally for illegal immigrants.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 July 2014 09:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5551
Joined  2010-06-16

Quoting Vy”

It’s really a shame that this is a wedge issue with groups like the Tea Party and Conservatives being against illegal immigration.  And liberals and Democrats being generally for illegal immigrants.

Sorry, Vy, but I think the Conservatives talk a good game, but are really strongly for continuing the undocumented because they serve as a large reservoir of extremely low paid workers who don’t get the benefits required for U.S. citizen workers.  However, the employers usually do have to deduct unemployment insurance and social security deductions both of which go into our state and federal treasuries and are essentially never collected by the undocumented worker.

According to the stats I heard yesterday, the Obama administration deported 400,000 kids last year.  Although it hasn’t been publicized, immigration officials often help the kids find their parents or relatives who are already here, then they go in, grab them all and deport the whole family. 

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 July 2014 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3215
Joined  2011-08-15

And now the Prez is asking the Congress four an additional 4 billion to provide deterrence and border protection to stop the leak. He’s meeting with Perry today to discuss the issue. Perry BTW refused to meet him on the Tarmac for, well you know, political reasons. He doesn’t want to appear to keen. Gotta please the Teabaggers and the border militia. Hey, maybe Rick can say an anti immigrant prayer and god will turn back the overwhelming tide of kids and magically return them to the land of peace and prosperity in Central America. The coffee plantations are always looking for more child labor.


Cap’t Jack

 Signature 

One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.

Thomas Paine

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 July 2014 02:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
Occam. - 08 July 2014 09:16 AM

Sorry, Vy, but I think the Conservatives talk a good game, but are really strongly for continuing the undocumented because they serve as a large reservoir of extremely low paid workers….

Occam I thought about that before I typed it.
In this instance I’m talking about the electorate in general. Not the party power brokers etc.

According to the stats I heard yesterday, the Obama administration deported 400,000 kids last year.  Although it hasn’t been publicized, immigration officials often help the kids find their parents or relatives who are already here, then they go in, grab them all and deport the whole family. 

Occam

I don’t know where you got those stats but I really don’t think those are accurate. The total number of people deported probably doesn’t approach that figure in a year. It might be close, but that would be all people...not just children. Not by a long shot.

The second part of your statement I’ll leave untouched. Again I don’t know where you’re getting these reports or “unpublicized” information
tidbits.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 08 July 2014 03:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14

LA Times-07/08/2014

The number of immigrants under 18 who were deported or turned away at ports of entry fell from 8,143 in 2008, the last year of the George W. Bush administration, to 1,669 last year, according to Immigration and Customs Enforcement data released under a Freedom of Information Act request.

This figure is a little off from 400,000.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 July 2014 09:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5551
Joined  2010-06-16

Wait a minute, Vy.  That refers to those who were trying to come in legally, not those who sneak across the border. 

Quoting Vy:

In this instance I’m talking about the electorate in general. Not the party power brokers etc.

  I’m not sure what this means.  The ones who make the decisions are the legislative and executive branches of government, all of whom are either power brokers or controlled by them. 

Check to see the bills Obama and the Democrats have proposed for Congress to increase funding to block entry of aliens, and who has refused to even bring it to a vote (Boehner).  The Republicans claim loudly they are against undocumented immigration, but they quietly prevent bills to deal with it. 

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 July 2014 11:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  709
Joined  2014-06-20
Occam. - 09 July 2014 09:49 AM

Wait a minute, Vy.  That refers to those who were trying to come in legally, not those who sneak across the border. 

Quoting Vy:

In this instance I’m talking about the electorate in general. Not the party power brokers etc.

  I’m not sure what this means.  The ones who make the decisions are the legislative and executive branches of government, all of whom are either power brokers or controlled by them. 

Check to see the bills Obama and the Democrats have proposed for Congress to increase funding to block entry of aliens, and who has refused to even bring it to a vote (Boehner).  The Republicans claim loudly they are against undocumented immigration, but they quietly prevent bills to deal with it. 

Occam

Yes, especially if it’s going to raise taxes. The Republicans will vote against any funding bill, then blame Obama for not doing anything.

I guess he should use his magic wand.

Lois

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 July 2014 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2220
Joined  2007-04-26

Unfortunately we can’t take care of all the worlds problems. The children crossing our borders are just a small percentage of the starving and abused children in the world and there are many children in our own country who are not properly being cared for.

I don’t know what the answer is but giving legal status to all illegal immigrants isn’t the answer. I think unfortunately we may have to take a different approach where everyone does not get their day in court. People who are caught red handed actually crossing the border should get a 5 minute hearing, no lawyers allowed and sent back as quickly as possible so that others do not see this as an opportunity and try the same thing. If they saw no hope of escape from their own country maybe there would be more incentive to improve things at home.

That may be a naive view but the current approach clearly is not working and allowing a path to citizenship for anyone who wants one is not going to work either. We can’t absorb the numbers of people who want to come here from the rest of the world. There needs to be a filter and a governor on the influx of immigrants or the country they are running to may soon be no better than the one they left.

 Signature 

For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, obvious,.... and just plain wrong

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 July 2014 02:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
Occam. - 09 July 2014 09:49 AM

Wait a minute, Vy.  That refers to those who were trying to come in legally, not those who sneak across the border.

No it says deported and turned away at Ports of Entry. That’s it. It’s that simple. Deported means deported.
The United States can rarely deport children, and rarely does. The reason being is, that would be like taking a child to the Border and turning them loose, or putting them on a plane to Sweden(for example)with a one-way ticket and washing your hands.
You can do that with adults, you cannot do that with kids unless an adult is on the other end to pick them up. An immediate relative.

Quoting Vy: In this instance I’m talking about the electorate in general. Not the party power brokers etc.

 

Occam-I’m not sure what this means.  The ones who make the decisions are the legislative and executive branches of government, all of whom are either power brokers or controlled by them. 
Occam

Oh, are they in their offices by dictate?

[ Edited: 09 July 2014 02:35 PM by VYAZMA ]
 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 July 2014 02:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
macgyver - 09 July 2014 11:56 AM

That may be a naive view but the current approach clearly is not working and allowing a path to citizenship for anyone who wants one is not going to work either. We can’t absorb the numbers of people who want to come here from the rest of the world. There needs to be a filter and a governor on the influx of immigrants or the country they are running to may soon be no better than the one they left.

No that is not a naive view Mac. In fact at various times that is exactly how the law is set up to work under some of the circumstances.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 July 2014 03:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  709
Joined  2014-06-20
macgyver - 09 July 2014 11:56 AM

Unfortunately we can’t take care of all the worlds problems. The children crossing our borders are just a small percentage of the starving and abused children in the world and there are many children in our own country who are not properly being cared for.

I don’t know what the answer is but giving legal status to all illegal immigrants isn’t the answer. I think unfortunately we may have to take a different approach where everyone does not get their day in court. People who are caught red handed actually crossing the border should get a 5 minute hearing, no lawyers allowed and sent back as quickly as possible so that others do not see this as an opportunity and try the same thing. If they saw no hope of escape from their own country maybe there would be more incentive to improve things at home.

That may be a naive view but the current approach clearly is not working and allowing a path to citizenship for anyone who wants one is not going to work either. We can’t absorb the numbers of people who want to come here from the rest of the world. There needs to be a filter and a governor on the influx of immigrants or the country they are running to may soon be no better than the one they left.

“Unfortunately we can’t take care of all the worlds problems. The children crossing our borders are just a small percentage of the starving and abused children in the world and there are many children in our own country who are not properly being cared for.”

Apparently the Republicans think so, and they also think all the problems would be magically taken care of if Obama would just “do something.” Congressional recalcitrance doesn’t mean anything. Obama should be able to fix immigration problems unilaterally—but, of course, not with an executive order. Magic is the only thing he will be allowed to use.

I can’t help noticing that the past three Republican presidents and the Congress did absolutely nothing about illegal immigration except to make it worse. Now suddenly they want Obama to “fix it” and they’re going to stamp their feet until he does, but they’ll tie his hands and condemn every move he makes.

Nobody in this country, and that includes Democrats, has a clue about the practical aspects of dealing with illegal immigration, especially the recent influx unaccompanied minors. No matter what anyone suggests doing, half the population and half or more of Congress will object to it. So the border patrol and our woefully underfunded social services are expected to do the impossible and handle the crisis without funds, without resources, without direction, without infrastructure and without cooperation, but theyll get plenty of criticism, no matter what they do.

[ Edited: 09 July 2014 03:46 PM by LoisL ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 July 2014 06:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2220
Joined  2007-04-26

I agree Lois. Its easy to criticize. Much harder to propose workable solutions. Perhaps if we all made it a policy to ignore politicians who criticize and only vote for those who suggest solutions we could get somewhere.

 Signature 

For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, obvious,.... and just plain wrong

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 July 2014 06:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2220
Joined  2007-04-26

I just realized.. that wouldn’t leave us anyone to vote for.

 Signature 

For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, obvious,.... and just plain wrong

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 July 2014 08:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  709
Joined  2014-06-20
macgyver - 09 July 2014 06:26 PM

I just realized.. that wouldn’t leave us anyone to vote for.

Exactly.

There is another thing most people fail to focus on. The president can’t make laws and he can’t appropriate money to do anything. Only Congress can do that. Yet we have members of Congress criticizing the President for not “doing something,” while they—who CAN pass new laws and appropriate money, do nothing. I heard someone on the radio today railing about Obama not going to the border or places where children are being held. What good would that do when he can’t do anything? I don’t see any members of Congress going to the border or to where the children are being held and I don’t see them working on passing any new laws or appropriating any money that would relieve the crisis. Congress’s duty is to legislate and the President’s duty is to carry laws out. Speaker Bonehead, other members of Congress and political loudmouths, such as Sarah Palin, don’t seem to know this simple fact. I suspect most of them could not pass a sixth grade test on how the US government is supposed to run.

Lois

[ Edited: 09 July 2014 08:08 PM by LoisL ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 July 2014 10:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  709
Joined  2014-06-20

The UN reports that there are an estimated 42.5 million people displaced by persecution and conflict in the world. This breaks down to 15.2 million refugees, 26.4 million internally displaced persons and 895,000 asylum seekers.

Most of them are children, escaping intolerable conditions in their home countries.  Should the US welcome them  with open arms as some people claim we shpuld welcome asylum seekers from south of the border?  Suppose these refugee children start showing up on US borders and in US airports? What would we do with them? Would they be any less deserving of food, clothing, shelter, education, medical services, eventual jobs and US citizenship than the kids arriving on the Texas border from Central America now? Many kids are being held in refugee camps in Europe amd Africa under intolerable cnditions, no education and no future. Most would probably plead for asylum in the US if they could. Do we turn our backs or impoverish ourselves and our country by taking them in as many suggest we do with the asylum seekers coming across the Mexican border? All asylum seekers face terrible conditions and are deserving of help as much or more than the Central American children appearing on our borders.  What do we do about them? 

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 2
1