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Israel/Gaza question
Posted: 03 August 2014 04:55 PM   [ Ignore ]
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How is what Israel is doing to the Palestinians in Gaza any different than what the Nazis did to the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto? Which one is an immoral act?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto

Lois

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Posted: 03 August 2014 07:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I have no hopes for a rational settlement of that conflict.  Negotiation requires compromise where each side gives up some of their desires.  Unfortunately, when both sides are crackpots who are unwilling to give anything it can’t end well.  Although the majority of the Jews and the Palestinians would probably be willing to work on reaching some reasonable agreements, on one side you have the radical right Jews who are insanely religious and, even though a minority have managed to control their government, and on the other side, Hamas, who have said publically that since the ratio of Palestinians to Jews is nineteen to one, they can afford to have nineteen of their side killed as long as they kill one Jew.  In addition, Hamas believes it’s great publicity against the Jews to have many Palestinians killed.

I agree with your comment, Lois, but what is unfortunate is that the reasonable people on both sides haven’t risen up against their own fanatics and locked them up to block their viciousness.

Occam

[ Edited: 03 August 2014 07:43 PM by Occam. ]
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Posted: 03 August 2014 10:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Occam. - 03 August 2014 07:39 PM

I have no hopes for a rational settlement of that conflict.  Negotiation requires compromise where each side gives up some of their desires.  Unfortunately, when both sides are crackpots who are unwilling to give anything it can’t end well.  Although the majority of the Jews and the Palestinians would probably be willing to work on reaching some reasonable agreements, on one side you have the radical right Jews who are insanely religious and, even though a minority have managed to control their government, and on the other side, Hamas, who have said publically that since the ratio of Palestinians to Jews is nineteen to one, they can afford to have nineteen of their side killed as long as they kill one Jew.  In addition, Hamas believes it’s great publicity against the Jews to have many Palestinians killed.

I agree with your comment, Lois, but what is unfortunate is that the reasonable people on both sides haven’t risen up against their own fanatics and locked them up to block their viciousness.

Occam

Yes, that’s pretty hard to do for either side.

I’m not backing Hamas. My point was how does a Palestinian trapped in the prison of Gaza have any more options than a Jew in the Warsaw ghetto had? Israelis should understand that.

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Posted: 04 August 2014 04:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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How is what Israel is doing to the Palestinians in Gaza any different than what the Nazis did to the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto? Which one is an immoral act?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto

Lois

The major difference between what’s happening in Gaza and what the Nazis did to the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto is that the Nazis hunted down and exterminated them, while the Russian Army watched BTW. that being said, the IDA needs to pull out of Gaza, Hamas needs to declare an immediate cease fire and start peace talks, explaining in detail what Israel is doing to them and why it’s necessary for the international community (by this I mean every major country regardless of their religious and ethnic background) to back a separate Palestinian State. The Palestinian radicals then need to give up the idea of the annihilation of Isreal. It’s here to stay with a GDP that will keep it stable. conversely, the Jews need to recognize that until that happens the rockets, sticks, stones or whatever the Palestinians have to use will continue to be used against them. And , most of all the US needs to play honest broker and not bolster Isreal financially or militarily because the majority of our reps. Think that Isreal was given a “holy” mandate to expand from their mountain god.


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Posted: 04 August 2014 07:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I think a better comparison is what the European settlers did to the American Indians.

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Posted: 04 August 2014 08:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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[I think a better comparison is what the European settlers did to the American Indians.


/quote]


From 7 million in 1492 to 585 thousand in 1900. Displaced, run onto useless land, starved, out right killed and called savages (terrorists) when they fought back. Manifest destiny was yet another religiously spawned excuse for aggressive expansion.


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Posted: 04 August 2014 09:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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This conflict is just like the IRA and the catholics and the protestants in N. Ireland.
It’s Hatfields and McCoys type crap. All of these idiots can’t even remember what they are or were fighting for anymore.
It makes great news copy for the endless bozos who either write about it or read about it.

What’s next over there? An uneasy cease-fire and unsettled truce. Then another flare-up down the road.
I think these cretins live for this in that strip of land. I think it is their main form of entertainment-constant fighting and tension.
We’re talking about an area the size of 3 Wal-Mart parking lots.<exaggeration>

I wonder what would happen if the entire world just ignored both parties….they probably wouldn’t know what to do with themselves.

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Posted: 04 August 2014 01:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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This conflict is just like the IRA and the catholics and the protestants in N. Ireland.
It’s Hatfields and McCoys type crap. All of these idiots can’t even remember what they are or were fighting for anymore.
It makes great news copy for the endless bozos who either write about it or read about it.

What’s next over there? An uneasy cease-fire and unsettled truce. Then another flare-up down the road.
I think these cretins live for this in that strip of land. I think it is their main form of entertainment-constant fighting and tension.
We’re talking about an area the size of 3 Wal-Mart parking lots.<exaggeration>

I wonder what would happen if the entire world just ignored both parties….they probably wouldn’t know what to do with themselves.


This is a conflict that’s been boiling since 2006 and is the third flair up since then. I only wish it was an Appalachian feud; after a few bushwhacked killings both sides would down a can of moonshine, shake on it, let the kids marry each other and call it quits. Not so in the Gaza Strip or the West Bank. It’ll continue until Palestine has borders and the Israelis lift the blockade. Until then over a million Muslims will continue to suffer and die. And as to press coverage, the overwhelming accounts come from Isreali officials, and I mean every news source, not just Fox. How about a balanced coverage? All I can get here is the BBC news or foreign newspapers. Come on CNN and MSNBC! Of course there is Huffpo, sometimes.


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Posted: 04 August 2014 07:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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How about denying UN membership for all theocratic governments, no exceptions? Then, economically isolate them and let em kill each other. Problem solved.

Just throwing that out, not a serious conviction on my part.

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Posted: 04 August 2014 09:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 04 August 2014 01:46 PM

This is a conflict that’s been boiling since 2006 and is the third flair up since then.

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Since 2006?  I think it goes back farther than that VA. The PLO was formed in 1974. Israel was created in 1949 or so…
It’s been the same old song and dance as far back as I can remember.
There shouldn’t be any news coverage of this stuff.
The fact that they still can’t get this settled out after 50 plus years is almost as funny as if someone said, “It’s complicated.”
It’s a goofy distraction at best.

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Posted: 05 August 2014 04:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Since 2006?  I think it goes back farther than that VA. The PLO was formed in 1974. Israel was created in 1949 or so…
It’s been the same old song and dance as far back as I can remember.
There shouldn’t be any news coverage of this stuff.
The fact that they still can’t get this settled out after 50 plus years is almost as funny as if someone said, “It’s complicated.”
It’s a goofy distraction at best.


You can go back even further than that Vy. BTW Israel and I were created at the same time, 1948. And you can blame the Romans for this mess to begin with after the diaspora. I meant the current conflict over Gaza has been going on since the flare up in 2006. And when the news media has a bone in their teeth they’ll run it in the ground just like CNN did with the Malaysian airliner or the O.J. trial. My point is that the coverage is generally one sided with the Palestinians always wearing the Black hats and the Israelis the white. Look at the casualty figures though and the excuse is that a faction of Hamas is firing off rockets at random targets and they are being pounded to dust by Israeli aircraft and artillery. But still they persist. Why? Sure it makes exciting news coverage as reps. From both groups flail at each other, the international community forces a cease fire and in a year or two one side does something stupid and here we go again. We can stop the slaughter by insisting that Israel recognize Palestine and the Palestinians do the same. Until then it’s slaughter as usual.


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Posted: 05 August 2014 07:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 05 August 2014 04:30 AM

You can go back even further than that Vy. BTW Israel and I were created at the same time, 1948. And you can blame the Romans for this mess to begin with after the diaspora. I meant the current conflict over Gaza has been going on since the flare up in 2006. And when the news media has a bone in their teeth they’ll run it in the ground just like CNN did with the Malaysian airliner or the O.J. trial. My point is that the coverage is generally one sided with the Palestinians always wearing the Black hats and the Israelis the white. Look at the casualty figures though and the excuse is that a faction of Hamas is firing off rockets at random targets and they are being pounded to dust by Israeli aircraft and artillery. But still they persist. Why? Sure it makes exciting news coverage as reps. From both groups flail at each other, the international community forces a cease fire and in a year or two one side does something stupid and here we go again. We can stop the slaughter by insisting that Israel recognize Palestine and the Palestinians do the same. Until then it’s slaughter as usual.


Cap’t Jack

Obviously this issue enthralls you…

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Posted: 05 August 2014 09:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Hey, he was (is?) a teacher.  He’s expected to have this kind of data handy for his classes.  LOL

Occam

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Posted: 05 August 2014 09:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Obviously this issue enthralls you…


No, it pisses me off. Lop sided conflicts always do. I’m not pro Muslim nor pro Jewish. I hate to see people suffer over cultural and religious issues, and you can throw Northern Ireland into the discussion too. Stupid and a senseless waste of life.

 

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Posted: 05 August 2014 09:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Hey, he was (is?) a teacher.  He’s expected to have this kind of data handy for his classes. 

Occam


Still am Occam, just not teaching the disinterested high school kids anymore. grin


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Posted: 05 August 2014 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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I know this sounds trite, but if you dig deep enough, most politics is just that - trite and simplistic. So…what they need is a common enemy to jointly do battle against. Maybe the Chinese or Russians can invade the entire area and force both sides to work together to defeat the common enemy.

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