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What makes a great song vs. a good song?
Posted: 17 December 2014 02:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 91 ]
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CuthbertJ - 17 December 2014 11:35 AM

You need to step back and see the discussion correctly. I mentioned somewhere in this thread that the point that was being forgotten is context. Context is everything, and without that all of your posts are off. Somewhere you said art is about communication of a concept. I agree, that’s why Beethoven sucks at a party but the Stones don’t. See it’s the context that matters. In the context of people having fun at a bar, or say a family wedding, Beethoven’s 5th just doesn’t cut it. In the context of intellectual enjoyment, the Stones Can’t Get No Satisfaction just doesn’t cut it. It’s the context that matters AND you can’t say one context is more relevant than the other.

Speaking of contexts, if you happened to be a well-off middle class family hosting a party and had some wives or daughters who could whip out a 4-hands piano arrangement of Beethoven’s 5th, that would make a fantastic party. Start with that, then when the hard cider starts to kick in, get into the action by singing some cutting-edge Stephen Foster songs en masse.

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Posted: 17 December 2014 04:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 92 ]
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CuthbertJ - 17 December 2014 11:35 AM
Write4U - 15 December 2014 04:27 PM
BugRib - 15 December 2014 12:09 PM
Write4U - 13 December 2014 06:23 AM

I don’t disagree, you named the great artists who created a new gender in music.

Wait, someone has created a new gender through music?  That is an amazing accomplishment!  tongue wink

vampire

BugRib,
I can appreciate the Joni Mitchell rendition of “At Last”.  Not big on the Jazzy Pat Metheny cut, though.  Music with very little melody just sounds kind of atonal and schizophrenic to me.  Seriously, how can anyone like jazz?  tongue laugh

Actually there is a melody. Jazz is “improvisation on a theme” the spontaneous inventiveness of the artist, using the chords structure based on an original theme. It is similar to Impressionism or Cubism in painting, where pure realism is reinterpreted through the eyes of the artist in a variety of ways..
Van Gogh is a wonderful example. Picasso, Jackson Pollock. At first these paintings look odd and unfamiliar, but with great art, the longer you study it, the more profound these works seem to become. It’s weird, but true.

The trick is not to look AT the painting, but look INTO the painting. The same holds true for music and all other forms of fine art. The deeper you look, the more you see.

But smashing a guitar to make a point does not do it for me, unless it is the artists expression of his frustration that he has failed to create anything meaningful.

You need to step back and see the discussion correctly. I mentioned somewhere in this thread that the point that was being forgotten is context. Context is everything, and without that all of your posts are off. Somewhere you said art is about communication of a concept. I agree, that’s why Beethoven sucks at a party but the Stones don’t. See it’s the context that matters. In the context of people having fun at a bar, or say a family wedding, Beethoven’s 5th just doesn’t cut it. In the context of intellectual enjoyment, the Stones Can’t Get No Satisfaction just doesn’t cut it. It’s the context that matters AND you can’t say one context is more relevant than the other.

You just made my point. There is a contextual difference between Art and Entertainment. Art is not necessarily intended to be entertaining and entertainment is not necessariiy artfull.

Folding and flying a paper plane is not the same as creating an intricate work of origamy or a paper painting (see below)
http://elizabethsthilairenelson.blogspot.com/  Note the heading “Art imitates life” (Natura Artis Magistra).
Or the art of paper-cutting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papercutting

and see this Master in the art of paper-cut paintings.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=works+of+joanna_koerten&qpvt=works+of+Joanna_Koerten&FORM=IGRE

I aso like this quote

Types,
Not all songs are created equally. The division between songs is based on the type of music you are writing and the genre that you are using. Each of these has specific rhythms, sounds, instrumentation and lyrics that tie everything together to make the best song. Most of these are based on intricate theories that work together to create the best music. Knowing your genre and the theories that are a part of this first ensures that you are able to make the most of the song.

Read more : http://www.ehow.com/about_4571788_what-makes-good-song.html

Art is “the creation of that which evokes an emotional response leading to thoughts of the noblest kind” . OTOH, Entertainment is just that, a moment of pleasure, soon forgotten because it is design to “distract” from the more serious intellectual side of life.

This is not to say that the two are mutually exclusive, but they are distinct from each other in purpose.

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Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

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Posted: 17 December 2014 07:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 93 ]
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Write4U - 17 December 2014 04:14 PM
CuthbertJ - 17 December 2014 11:35 AM
Write4U - 15 December 2014 04:27 PM
BugRib - 15 December 2014 12:09 PM
Write4U - 13 December 2014 06:23 AM

I don’t disagree, you named the great artists who created a new gender in music.

Wait, someone has created a new gender through music?  That is an amazing accomplishment!  tongue wink

vampire

BugRib,
I can appreciate the Joni Mitchell rendition of “At Last”.  Not big on the Jazzy Pat Metheny cut, though.  Music with very little melody just sounds kind of atonal and schizophrenic to me.  Seriously, how can anyone like jazz?  tongue laugh

Actually there is a melody. Jazz is “improvisation on a theme” the spontaneous inventiveness of the artist, using the chords structure based on an original theme. It is similar to Impressionism or Cubism in painting, where pure realism is reinterpreted through the eyes of the artist in a variety of ways..
Van Gogh is a wonderful example. Picasso, Jackson Pollock. At first these paintings look odd and unfamiliar, but with great art, the longer you study it, the more profound these works seem to become. It’s weird, but true.

The trick is not to look AT the painting, but look INTO the painting. The same holds true for music and all other forms of fine art. The deeper you look, the more you see.

But smashing a guitar to make a point does not do it for me, unless it is the artists expression of his frustration that he has failed to create anything meaningful.

You need to step back and see the discussion correctly. I mentioned somewhere in this thread that the point that was being forgotten is context. Context is everything, and without that all of your posts are off. Somewhere you said art is about communication of a concept. I agree, that’s why Beethoven sucks at a party but the Stones don’t. See it’s the context that matters. In the context of people having fun at a bar, or say a family wedding, Beethoven’s 5th just doesn’t cut it. In the context of intellectual enjoyment, the Stones Can’t Get No Satisfaction just doesn’t cut it. It’s the context that matters AND you can’t say one context is more relevant than the other.

You just made my point. There is a contextual difference between Art and Entertainment. Art is not necessarily intended to be entertaining and entertainment is not necessariiy artfull.

Folding and flying a paper plane is not the same as creating an intricate work of origamy or a paper painting (see below)
http://elizabethsthilairenelson.blogspot.com/  Note the heading “Art imitates life” (Natura Artis Magistra).
Or the art of paper-cutting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papercutting

and see this Master in the art of paper-cut paintings.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=works+of+joanna_koerten&qpvt=works+of+Joanna_Koerten&FORM=IGRE

I aso like this quote

Types,
Not all songs are created equally. The division between songs is based on the type of music you are writing and the genre that you are using. Each of these has specific rhythms, sounds, instrumentation and lyrics that tie everything together to make the best song. Most of these are based on intricate theories that work together to create the best music. Knowing your genre and the theories that are a part of this first ensures that you are able to make the most of the song.

Read more : http://www.ehow.com/about_4571788_what-makes-good-song.html

Art is “the creation of that which evokes an emotional response leading to thoughts of the noblest kind” . OTOH, Entertainment is just that, a moment of pleasure, soon forgotten because it is design to “distract” from the more serious intellectual side of life.

This is not to say that the two are mutually exclusive, but they are distinct from each other in purpose.

Well now you’re just mincing words. Beethoven and the Stones both produced art, and what they produced can both be entertaining as well as artful. Your distinction is apples to oranges.

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