Interesting how the Pro Vaccniners are immediately angry when someone is opposed to their conventional view of medicine. Intolerance perhaps?
Did you watch the short video?
Dangerous way of thinking? I did the research. I used to be a strong advocate of vaccines!
“pro vaccinators” as you call us get angry because we are tired of having to waste our time re-explaining this issue to people who haven’t bothered to understand the science and continue to try and create a controversy where there is none. Yes it is intolerance, but only intolerance of ignorance. Yes your way is a “dangerous way of thinking”, but ignorance is always dangerous.
Herd immunity - you can’t have it both ways. The ones who promote vaccines say that the unvaccinated “benefit from everyone who is vaccinated but they don’t have to take the risks of the vaccine” So vaccines do have a risk then??
No one ever said vaccines didn’t have risks. But so do small pox, polio, measles, mumps, hepatitis, tetanus, dphtheria, and chicken pox. If you wanted to live in a no risk world then you should never have been born. The world is a dangerous place. Vaccines don’t eliminate all of that risk but they eliminate a HUGE chunk of it. The statement that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks is undeniable.
And of course, the unvaccinated spread the disease around. However this is not possible, if vaccines were so effective then those common childhood disease would not be around anymore, if you consider the large majority of those who are immunized.
Nobody ever said that vaccines were 100% effective. However, the alternative - not getting vacccinated- is 0% effective.
Explain this mystery to me - Why has Scarlet Fever dropped off? There was never a vaccine for it??
Do you have data to support this statement? Even if it is true what is your point?
Polio outbreaks amongst vaccninated individuals - http://www.909shot.com/Diseases/polio696.htm
The Polio vaccine you are referring to is the live attenuated vaccine ( The killed virus vaccine is the one that is usually used and it does not have this risk). There is always the risk with these types of vaccines that someone with a weak immune system may get the actual illness, but sometimes this form a vaccination is the best provides better protection. The incidence with polio vaccine is something on the order of one in a million doses. Compare this to the 10’s of thousands of kids who were crippled or died in the early part of this century from actually getting polio and your point is moot.
You don’t need to read Edward Hoopers book. Really? You’ve “read the science”. No actually you have read a few opinions from scientists who oppose his point of view and agree with them, instead of reading the book yourself and coming to your own conclusions. Actuallly the evidence did not fall apart and out of the four lots tested, one was postitive, but not considered “to be enough evidence of risk”
No, I’ve actually read THE SCIENCE. I have taken courses in biology,epidemiiology, microbiology, and virology. I have a masters degree in human physiology and an MD degree. I don’t need the opinions of other sicentists to know when the stuff I’m reading is a bunch of nonsense.
The fact that you immunized your own kids “without reservations” is not going to change my mind. A child in my care is currently in PICU and not expected to survive DUE TO A VACCINE!
I know you claim these instances to be rare, but it is also rare to die from whooping cough for example. Were you actually aware of the fact that of the 30, 000 REPORTED cases of whooping cough in Japan, the death rate was only 0.016%? (This was after the vaccine was eliminated)
You keep conveniently forgetting history. In the early part of this century children in this country died in huge numbers from childhood diseases that had much higher mortality rates than whooping cough. This is still the case in poor parts of the world where immunizations are not yet routinely available to all.
I look at a disease like this: A farmer sprays pesticides for bugs. When he uses the same product over and over again, bugs will eventually become tolerant to the chemical and no longer die. Its the same thing with common these common childhood diseases. Have you thought of this in relation to Scarlet Fever? It used to be very common as well.
Here’s another link for your perusal: http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/04/11/polinged0411.html
and one on mumps: http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/shared-gen/ap/Health_Medical/Mumps_Vaccine.html?cxntlid=inform_artr
This just shines a spotlight on your ignorance of science and biology. You are trying to siggest that human beings have somehow become “tolerant” of the bacteria that causes scarlet fever. Let me try to explain why this is ridiculous ( Please, please take a biology course at the very least before you post again). The streptococcus bacterium that causes scarlet fever has been around for millenia. You are suggesting that somehow during the last hundred years humans have suddenly evolved to be better able to defend themselves against this organism ( I am using you bug pesticide analogy here).
You need to understand how evolution works. If humans were dying from scarlet fever there would always be some who survived because their immune system was stronger or better. These individuals might pass that trait on to their offspring and the next generation would theoretically have a higher survivial rate. As long as there was pressure to evolve ( ie: those who don’t carry the genetic trait to fight the bateria die) we would gradually evolve as a population to become better able to fight the illness. The problem is that this doesn’t fit with your scenario. At the very time that antibiotics were introduced and people were LESS likely to die from this illness ( and hence there was less survival advantage and therefor less selctive pressure to evolve) you are claiming we finally evolved our own immunity to this organism. From an evolutioanry standpoint that makes no sense at all. Who came up with this theory?
By the way, I do educate myself that’ts why I no longer believe in immunizations!
The debate is for the “Scientific Community” quite a statement, you actually believe that scientists don’t make mistakes? I would never ever forgive myself, if my child died as a result of a vaccine, for the “benefit of others”
I believe people who understand the science understand there is no mistake. Vaccines work and have changed the world for the better more than any other development in the history of mankind. You wouldn’t forgive yourself if your child died from a vacccine, but would you more easily forgive yourself if your child died from the far more likely situation where he/she died from NOT geeting a vaccine?