All things good to us are rewarding to us
Posted: 30 September 2015 09:09 AM   [ Ignore ]
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All my previous topics were too long and sort of incoherent.  No debate could be had in those topics since they were too long and incoherent.  Therefore, I am going to state something brief here for us to debate:

Everything good to us is a reward to us. If you lived a depressed life and thought that you having good meaning in your life is nothing but words and phrases and isn’t actual good meaning, then that would not be a reward to you. But the moment you perceive good meaning in your life in such a way that it is actual good meaning to you and not just words and phrases, then that would be the reward to you.

I will give another example. If you did not focus on yourself at all and just focused on living for others, making their lives good, and this has good meaning to you, then that would be rewarding to you as well. For you to make the lives of others good (rewarding) is rewarding to you. But as I said before, our reward system (good moods) are the only reward for us. They are the one and only things that can give us a rewarding experience in life since it all comes down to the functioning of our brains that gives us all our experiences in life.

If you had nothing but disrewarding pain and misery from having your wounds attended to at the hospital, then just the fact that the idea of you being healed is of good value/worth to you means that it is rewarding to you despite your pain and misery.  But like I said before, if you did not experience your good moods despite your pain and misery, then that would actually be of no good value/worth to you.

Now to say that something can be of good value/worth to you even though it is not rewarding to you would be no different than saying that something can be rewarding to you even though it is not rewarding to you.  Therefore, that would be a false (contradictory) statement. 

We have different functions of our brains.  Our thinking function gives us the experience of thoughts.  Our hearing function gives us the experience of hearing.  Our sight function gives us the experience of sight, etc.  But our reward system gives us the experience of reward (our good moods).  Our hearing function cannot give us sight, our sight function cannot give us hearing or reward, etc.  The mental experiences are tied (restricted) to their functions.

Therefore, the only way helping someone in life can have good meaning to you is if you were in a good mood in doing so.  As long as you are in a depressed mood or any other bad mood, then nothing can be of any good value/worth to you in those given moments.  Not even if you changed the world and made it a better place.  Only when you are in a good mood again would that have good meaning to you. 

It doesn’t matter what you tell yourself otherwise when you are in a bad mood.  If you told yourself that you still have good meaning in your life despite your bad mood, then you would be telling yourself nothing more than labels (words and phrases).  That would not bring you any actual good meaning.

So with all of that being said, it is only the feeling/emotional non-moral (mood) version of good and bad that can give good and bad meaning to our lives.  The moral version of good and bad and all other versions of good and bad are fake and do not give our lives any real good or bad meaning.

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Posted: 30 September 2015 10:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Valid effort there Mozart. That actually fit on one screen, which should be a goal for you always.

I’ve already agreed that a dysfunctional brain, by definition, cannot think itself happy. I would be lying to say that I know why some days, while walking down the hill to my job, I feel elated and I’m filled with joy as I smell the city, feel the sun and view the harbor, while other days, I feel cranky and wish I had a different life. I can speak on that for hours, and provide reasons, but I don’t think anyone really knows.

However, we have each other. There are people who have shared your experiences, taken certain actions and had certain results. You have two things working against you; very few people share your experience, and results are hard to come by. I can’t provide much toward that except sympathy. However, again, we have each other, and despite those two things, that is always true.

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Posted: 30 September 2015 06:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I would like to ask this question. How can our thoughts alone while depressed be any form of rewarding experience for us? Aren’t they all just thoughts? Aren’t they all nothing more than just the “thinking” experience of our brains that cannot give us any good meaning, love, joy, happiness, inspiration, or rewarding experience? Don’t they just give us nothing more than just words and phrases of those things? 

There is the difference between words and phrases and our mental states. So what I am asking here is can we achieve the mental state of love, joy, happiness, and inspiration through our thoughts alone while depressed? Or is it just simply the words and phrases of those things and not the actual mental state of having those things? If this sounds confusing to you, then let me explain more on this:

If a blind and deaf person told his/herself that he/she still has sight and hearing, then he/she would just be telling his/herself nothing more than labels (words and phrases) of sight and hearing. That would not give him/her the actual mental state of sight and hearing which would be the mental state of visualizing objects and perceiving sound. So in that same sense, I am wondering if our thoughts alone while we are depressed do not allow us to perceive good meaning, love, joy, happiness, and inspiration just like how a blind and deaf person cannot perceive sight and hearing.

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Posted: 01 October 2015 08:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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If you say something like “let me explain more on this”, that indicates you aren’t open to listening to answers to your questions. I have responded to those questions already, here and elsewhere, so that is also evidence that you aren’t interested in what I have to say.

Your blind/deaf person analogy fails because we know of no way for thoughts to change those physical disabilities. We do have medicines and therapies that have had some some success for cases of depression.  Anyone who suggests that simply telling yourself to be happy will make you happy is wrong. As someone once said, “The optimist says you should be happy because things are going well for him.” But that doesn’t mean nothing can be done to change your mood.

I have no way of knowing what might work for you, but what I won’t do is to argue for your depression. And, the way the world works right now, it’s up to you to choose what to do. Unless you are a danger to yourself or others, you have the right to choose your own thoughts and actions, including seeking medication or whatever kind of support there is.

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Posted: 01 October 2015 01:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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This is just an intuitive response. I hope to make more informed comments later.

First, it seems that there are two fundamental personality traits; optimistic and pessimistic personalities.

The optimist can think himself ‘happy”, or at least “at peace” and will always see a “silver lining”, even in times of great stress. Confidence that things will work out for the better eventually. IMO, this leads to a positive attitude in most all circumstances.

The pessimist can keep themselves “unhappy” or “dissatisfied” and will try to find “dark skies”, even in good times. Fear, that things will turn out badly , even if evrything is fine now. IMO, this leads to a negative attitude in many circumstances.

Here, I believe, is where our “mirror neural network” (MNN)  is so very important. I have tested this many times and the results are remarkable.

The MNN allows us to feel empathy and when we project a positive attitude, it will affect everyone around us in a positive way. If I approach someone with a smile on my face and a non-threatening posture, the other person will respond in kind and “be open” to what I have to say..

OTOH, projecting anger, or self-pity will equally affect the MNN in everyone around us and create a similar response and tend to be closed to what I have to say.. Obviously this does not make for constructive dialogue or a comfortable atmosphere in general.  “One bad apple….......”

If you have not familiarized yourself with the MNN, I can heartily recommend it as in my experience it has helped me and others overcome severe hardship and emotional stress. It allows one to ask of himself, “why did I react this way”, which will become part of the MNN and modify your response to experiencing or seeing someone experience hardship or joy “A friend in need, is a friend indeed”.

I’ll leave it at this for now.  Hopefully I can contribute more later, when I have had time to organize my thoughts on this. It is an important part of human experience and interaction.

p.s. from a previous thread I learned an important universal constant.  “Things always tend to move or act in the direction of greater satisfaction”.
The trick is to find the path that leads to greater satisfaction. IMO, this is why we invented heaven as the ultimate reward for living a “good” life.
One does not need to be religious to practice living a good secular life. In that case “a good deed has its own reward”.

[ Edited: 01 October 2015 01:22 PM by Write4U ]
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Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
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