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Greetings, my name is Mitchell McKain
Posted: 22 January 2016 10:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

A recap and Tim’s behavior.
Tim starts by introducing those who accept unbridled capitalism as people who turn other people into commodities. He asserts that this ” is all of us, to the extent that we accept unbridled capitalism.”
Tim is so adamant about his opinion he admittedly “butts in”.

I’ll butt in with a single statement.
“Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”.

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Posted: 23 January 2016 08:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Write4U - 22 January 2016 10:27 PM
JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

A recap and Tim’s behavior.
Tim starts by introducing those who accept unbridled capitalism as people who turn other people into commodities. He asserts that this ” is all of us, to the extent that we accept unbridled capitalism.”
Tim is so adamant about his opinion he admittedly “butts in”.

I’ll butt in with a single statement.
“Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”.

This man, Larry Reed, is president of the Foundation for Economic Education. It does not appear he advocates or owns slaves: http://libertarianchristians.com/2016/01/22/real-heroes/?utm_source=LibertarianChristians.com+List&utm_campaign=cc16171d83-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_78901f0b30-cc16171d83-331936697

If Write 4U’s hypothetical statement is correct, a search of slavery in the modern world, should show up highly capitalistic nations.
Here are the nations where slavery is legal today including Russia and China (not known for unbridled capitalism) http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/23/countries-with-most-slaves_n_6207628.html

My brief analysis is that there is insuffficient scientific evidence to support Write4U’s statement “Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”
Slavery seems connected with capitalism only through Marxist writings. This fits with the Russia and China inclusion in the top slave holding list.

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Posted: 23 January 2016 03:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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JSmith - 23 January 2016 08:08 AM
Write4U - 22 January 2016 10:27 PM
JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

A recap and Tim’s behavior.
Tim starts by introducing those who accept unbridled capitalism as people who turn other people into commodities. He asserts that this ” is all of us, to the extent that we accept unbridled capitalism.”
Tim is so adamant about his opinion he admittedly “butts in”.

I’ll butt in with a single statement.
“Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”.

This man, Larry Reed, is president of the Foundation for Economic Education. It does not appear he advocates or owns slaves: http://libertarianchristians.com/2016/01/22/real-heroes/?utm_source=LibertarianChristians.com+List&utm_campaign=cc16171d83-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_78901f0b30-cc16171d83-331936697

If Write 4U’s hypothetical statement is correct, a search of slavery in the modern world, should show up highly capitalistic nations.
Here are the nations where slavery is legal today including Russia and China (not known for unbridled capitalism) http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/23/countries-with-most-slaves_n_6207628.html

My brief analysis is that there is insuffficient scientific evidence to support Write4U’s statement “Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”
Slavery seems connected with capitalism only through Marxist writings. This fits with the Russia and China inclusion in the top slave holding list.

You’re making all this too complicated. Cheap Labor is the key to higher profit. And that’s also why we buy stuff from China. and China, oddly, is the fastest growing economy in the world. What is the ratio of import v exports now?

  That’s how our slave owners got rich and the idea of Capitalism was held up as the path to wealth, yes for a few slave owners. Note: with the term *slave* in am not referring to ethnicity.

[ Edited: 23 January 2016 07:02 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 23 January 2016 06:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Write4U - 23 January 2016 03:44 PM
JSmith - 23 January 2016 08:08 AM
Write4U - 22 January 2016 10:27 PM
JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

A recap and Tim’s behavior.
Tim starts by introducing those who accept unbridled capitalism as people who turn other people into commodities. He asserts that this ” is all of us, to the extent that we accept unbridled capitalism.”
Tim is so adamant about his opinion he admittedly “butts in”.

I’ll butt in with a single statement.
“Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”.

This man, Larry Reed, is president of the Foundation for Economic Education. It does not appear he advocates or owns slaves: http://libertarianchristians.com/2016/01/22/real-heroes/?utm_source=LibertarianChristians.com+List&utm_campaign=cc16171d83-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_78901f0b30-cc16171d83-331936697

If Write 4U’s hypothetical statement is correct, a search of slavery in the modern world, should show up highly capitalistic nations.
Here are the nations where slavery is legal today including Russia and China (not known for unbridled capitalism) http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/23/countries-with-most-slaves_n_6207628.html

My brief analysis is that there is insuffficient scientific evidence to support Write4U’s statement “Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”
Slavery seems connected with capitalism only through Marxist writings. This fits with the Russia and China inclusion in the top slave holding list.

You’re making all this too complicated. Cheap Labor is the key to higher profit. And that’s also why we buy stuff from China. and China, oddly, is the fastest growing economy in the world. What is the ration of import v exports now?

  That’s how our slave owners got rich and the idea of Capitalism was held up as the path to wealth, yes for a few slave owners. Note: with the term *slave* in am not referring to ethnicity.

Of course my simple straightforward analysis is, for you, complicated for you. How is it complicated for you? You don’t say. You just go on with a new set of topics.
You go on about cheap labor, profit, fast growing economies, and imports v exports…as if these change China’s uncapitalistic attitude under the single party communist slave holding state.

It remains that slavery, is negatively correlated with capitalism today and throughout history. I don’t know if you can understand the word correlated or not. If you perhaps do, it means things appearing together. The claim made by TimB and the claim under review is that unbridled capitalism and slavery are somehow correlated when you stated those who embrace unbridled capitalism promote slavery. No one else, who is credible, tends to see this in credible scientific analysis. Analysis is a word that means “detailed examination of the elements or structure of something, typically as a basis for discussion or interpretation”. 

Of course your opinions may work for those who are used to politically driven discussion which cares about nothing but winning or “not losing”. Right now, not losing your point that slavery increases as unbridled capitalism increases, may be your best hope. Yet, already your point is lost. As is evident, China, a nation that does not value or embrace “unbridled capitalism”, is one of the largest slave holding nations in the world. I use some outside detailed sources to present this evidence. As usual, there is no evidence presented in your opinion. Russia provides an example just like China. 

Why not actually learn something specific to your opinions posted at a whim on this board through hard work and study about slavery, economics, and profit? here is a good place to start: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/09/economic-history-2, there are many more.

There is only value in replying to points directly connected to the correlation between unbridled capitalism and slavery only. If anyone wishes to go on, I require a definition of unbridled capitalism as that is a popish term with a religious heritage. Can you imagine using a term made popular by a man who believes that his words can be the words of God? OMG.

[ Edited: 23 January 2016 06:27 PM by JSmith ]
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Posted: 23 January 2016 07:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

A recap and Tim’s behavior.
Tim starts by introducing those who accept unbridled capitalism as people who turn other people into commodities. He asserts that this ” is all of us, to the extent that we accept unbridled capitalism.”
Tim is so adamant about his opinion he admittedly “butts in”.

I did preface my interjection with “Pardon me.”

JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

So there is one litmus Tim lists: “acceptance of unbridled captialism.”
Jim finds this vague, undefined, and therefore, a reference without rational value.

You just referred to yourself in the 2nd person.

JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

I respond by a list of many people who are infamous that fit Tim’s definition “to the extent”. These totally fit his definition because not one of them accepted unbridled capitalism. Tim looks at the list of these arch communists, socialists, and transformers of America and says, ” I don’t think so.” By his words, Tim implies that Marx accepted unbridled capitalism.
You look at the list and tell me they accepted unbridled capitalism. This list includes Marx. 

You made a list of historical figures, many of whom were vile and tyrannical ideologues, along with some decent folks, and asserted that some of them wore buttons that said “Unbridled capitalism makes commodities of us all”.  I don’t think that they wore such buttons, but if you can provide original photographs or historical reports that they wore buttons that supported that wild assertion, then I would admit being in error.

JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

Perhaps Tim just doesn’t get the implications of his broad sweeping statements…?


I answered rather broad and sweeping questions of yours, succinctly.  I added qualifiers:  “to the extent that we accept” and “unbridled” as a modifier of the word “capitalism”.  Hence, not so broad and sweeping as you suggest.

JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

I call Tim’s statement to task by noting what arrogant statement look like. Tim’s statement, not Tim himself, does seem to fit the height of arrogance given my definition.

Again, I suggest that some of your statements fit your definition.

JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

Tim, after butting in, making sweeping statements indicting others by his vague definition, says, “I didn’t care to engage in dialogue about controlled capitalism vs. laissez faire capitalism”.
Butts in, backs out, blames me for"ranting”....

It is true that I didn’t care to engage in that conversation, basically because I don’t think that it will result in me learning anything useful, or in you becoming enlightened, as you seem to be rather passionately entrenched with your own perspective on the matter.  My responses, now, are pretty much just defending myself from your accusations. .

JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

My rant simply and clearly listed specific people who fit his definition of those who do not treat others like commodities, to a tee. Note that the list is full of people who treated other like commodities yet do not accept unbridled capitalism. I contend Tim’s statement is wrong.


I was not suggesting that “unbridled capitalism” is the only system that can or has exploited people in terrible ways.  But the use of the word “commodities”  points directly toward capitalism. 

JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

Those who accept unbridled capitalism may or may not treat others as commodities. There is insufficient evidence to support Tim’s statement. 

Certainly not all of us treat others as commodities.  But, I daresay, that we are all capitalists, (in that we all buy and sell) and that if we blithely accept unbridled capitalism, (capitalism that, for example, allows abusive exploitation of others, and is allowed to destroy the environment, in order to unduly profit those who are skilled in this particular manner of gaining power)  then we are complicit, to some degree, as well.

JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

Now Tim adds to the vague hit and run statements on capitalism personal attacks on rationality that show further ignorance of words. First is the unbridled capitialism post above.

Second is the opinion my statements were raving. Raving: “to show signs of madness or delirium,” Delirium means “Delirium is a serious disturbance in mental abilities that results in confused thinking and reduced awareness of your environment.” Mayo Clinic.

To be honest, I don’t know whether you may be veering toward psychosis.  Some of my responses, I admit, are colored by, what I perceive as the nasty and accusatory tone of some of your posts.

JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

As a teacher of rationality, Tim’s behavior is an example of avoidance, manipulation, and full of errant logic, reasoning, and interpretation. It is possible such was not Tim’s intent but a symptom of education in America.

Talk about broad and sweeping statements.

JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

Those who tend to denigrate capitalism tend to look for every data point or excuse to take freedom away from individuals and put a bridle on them. I’ve often told the new left professors that if there was one person starving in antartica, they would advocate to dismantle the who free world and install authoritarian leaders to straighten out the world…which is really one starving person in antartica. These professors tend to be adamant regardless of evidence. Tim says this is “cuckoo”. How does Tim know?

Again, I am not denigrating “capitalism”, but rather, uncontrolled capitalism.  How do I know that the statement “if there was one person starving in antartica, they (liberal professors) would advocate to dismantle the who free world and install authoritarian leaders to straighten out the world…which is really one starving person in antartica.” is cuckoo?  It just sounds a bit crazy to me.

JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

I maintain the opinion that the cure advocated by those who resist the intent of our framers of the constitution, which was mostly unbridled capitalism, is worse than the solution many times over. I am willing not to run like Tim but engage any and all in this conversation without blame or litmus tests provided by Tim in his original post. It is not them as persons, it is their ideas that lack evidence of anything remotely linked to their utopian dreams. After all, most of us wish the problems faced by many poor people was just gone. Few want to make a local difference. ?

I don’t doubt your passion, just some of your reasoning, as suggested by some of your statements. You invoke the Constitution and our founding fathers as providing “unbridled capitalism” as a “cure”.  That is nonsense.  They believed in the rule of law.  The Constitution has often been critical in putting controls on capitalism.

JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

Tim is playing fast and loose with words “unbridled capitalism” and “raving”. Tim hits and runs by introducing his butt in and then saying he will not engage in any dialogue about definition. Tim judges people based on their acceptance of unbridled captialism and then…what’s next Tim?

I didn’t hit and run.  I am, apparently, just not on your timetable. (Also, I did not say that I “will not engage in any dialogue about definition”.)

I am a bit uncomfortable about high jacking this introductory thread. Since you seem to really, really, really want to dialogue on this issue, would you consider starting a new topic on the matter, under a more appropriate category, e.g., General Discussion or Politics, perhaps.

[ Edited: 23 January 2016 08:42 PM by TimB ]
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Posted: 23 January 2016 08:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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JSmith - 23 January 2016 06:18 PM
Write4U - 23 January 2016 03:44 PM
JSmith - 23 January 2016 08:08 AM
Write4U - 22 January 2016 10:27 PM
JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

A recap and Tim’s behavior.
Tim starts by introducing those who accept unbridled capitalism as people who turn other people into commodities. He asserts that this ” is all of us, to the extent that we accept unbridled capitalism.”
Tim is so adamant about his opinion he admittedly “butts in”.

I’ll butt in with a single statement.
“Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”.

This man, Larry Reed, is president of the Foundation for Economic Education. It does not appear he advocates or owns slaves: http://libertarianchristians.com/2016/01/22/real-heroes/?utm_source=LibertarianChristians.com+List&utm_campaign=cc16171d83-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_78901f0b30-cc16171d83-331936697

If Write 4U’s hypothetical statement is correct, a search of slavery in the modern world, should show up highly capitalistic nations.
Here are the nations where slavery is legal today including Russia and China (not known for unbridled capitalism) http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/23/countries-with-most-slaves_n_6207628.html

My brief analysis is that there is insuffficient scientific evidence to support Write4U’s statement “Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”
Slavery seems connected with capitalism only through Marxist writings. This fits with the Russia and China inclusion in the top slave holding list.

You’re making all this too complicated. Cheap Labor is the key to higher profit. And that’s also why we buy stuff from China. and China, oddly, is the fastest growing economy in the world. What is the ration of import v exports now?

  That’s how our slave owners got rich and the idea of Capitalism was held up as the path to wealth, yes for a few slave owners. Note: with the term *slave* in am not referring to ethnicity.

Of course my simple straightforward analysis is, for you, complicated for you. How is it complicated for you? You don’t say. You just go on with a new set of topics.
You go on about cheap labor, profit, fast growing economies, and imports v exports…as if these change China’s uncapitalistic attitude under the single party communist slave holding state.

It remains that slavery, is negatively correlated with capitalism today and throughout history. I don’t know if you can understand the word correlated or not. If you perhaps do, it means things appearing together. The claim made by TimB and the claim under review is that unbridled capitalism and slavery are somehow correlated when you stated those who embrace unbridled capitalism promote slavery. No one else, who is credible, tends to see this in credible scientific analysis. Analysis is a word that means “detailed examination of the elements or structure of something, typically as a basis for discussion or interpretation”. 

Of course your opinions may work for those who are used to politically driven discussion which cares about nothing but winning or “not losing”. Right now, not losing your point that slavery increases as unbridled capitalism increases, may be your best hope. Yet, already your point is lost. As is evident, China, a nation that does not value or embrace “unbridled capitalism”, is one of the largest slave holding nations in the world. I use some outside detailed sources to present this evidence. As usual, there is no evidence presented in your opinion. Russia provides an example just like China. 

Why not actually learn something specific to your opinions posted at a whim on this board through hard work and study about slavery, economics, and profit? here is a good place to start: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/09/economic-history-2, there are many more.

There is only value in replying to points directly connected to the correlation between unbridled capitalism and slavery only. If anyone wishes to go on, I require a definition of unbridled capitalism as that is a popish term with a religious heritage. Can you imagine using a term made popular by a man who believes that his words can be the words of God? OMG.

You are still looking at this from a naive academic theoretical interpretation.  I am not talking about the *concept* of Capitalism, I am talking about applied *unrestricted* capitalism, you know the *creative* kind that brought about the market crash and cost the tax payers a billion dollars to bail out the *rich*. I am talking about the *unrestricted* capitalism that dumps toxic wastes into *public* waters. I am talking about the *Halliburton loophole*, exempting oil and gas *frackers* from EPA regulations. I am talking about the Supreme Court’s ruling on *Citizens United”, resulting in the corruption of the entire “Democratic” process. For the *billions* of dollars spent on elections, we could use this money for more worthy purposes, don’t you agree?

Flint is the latest example of the application of *cost-saving* water treatments, resulting in irreversibly lead poisoning of some 6000 people.

Donald Trump proudly declared that he made a profit from declaring bankruptcy, “because it was legal”.

Bankruptcy is a legal status of a person or other entity that cannot repay the debts it owes to creditors.

Thousands of Elephants being killed for ivory, Gorillas being killed for using their hands as ashtrays. Oil spills from using more *cost-effective* but malfunctioning pump valves, resulting in a devastating oilspill, practically destroying the local ecosystem for many years. Big Pharma rushing dangerous drugs to the *highly competitive* drug market. Does the term “acceptable risk” ring a bell? What that means is the profits will far outweight the possible cost of lawsuits.

“Money, money, money makes the world go around”
As an ex-accountant, I know a thing or two about *unrestricted* (creative) corporate thinking. Do you?

It’s not the concept of Capitalism I condemn, it’s the qualifier *unrestricted* that I have a problem with. Is that clear enough now?  It is an historic fact that “money = power” and power is almost always used to make more money at cost of *communal* resources and lower living standards for the working poor (formerly known as the *middle-class*).

As long as *greed* is considered a virtue, *unrestricted* Capitalism almost always leads to abuse.

p.s. in a purely Capitalist system, high unemployment is a tool for negotiating lower wages in manufacturing, as well as a human resource for the military industrial complex. It becomes purely Darwinian process, as opposed to a Humanitarian process.

[ Edited: 23 January 2016 10:53 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 24 January 2016 12:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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JSmith - 23 January 2016 08:08 AM
Write4U - 22 January 2016 10:27 PM
JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

A recap and Tim’s behavior.
Tim starts by introducing those who accept unbridled capitalism as people who turn other people into commodities. He asserts that this ” is all of us, to the extent that we accept unbridled capitalism.”
Tim is so adamant about his opinion he admittedly “butts in”.

I’ll butt in with a single statement.
“Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”.

This man, Larry Reed, is president of the Foundation for Economic Education. It does not appear he advocates or owns slaves: http://libertarianchristians.com/2016/01/22/real-heroes/?utm_source=LibertarianChristians.com+List&utm_campaign=cc16171d83-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_78901f0b30-cc16171d83-331936697

If Write 4U’s hypothetical statement is correct, a search of slavery in the modern world, should show up highly capitalistic nations.
Here are the nations where slavery is legal today including Russia and China (not known for unbridled capitalism) http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/23/countries-with-most-slaves_n_6207628.html

My brief analysis is that there is insuffficient scientific evidence to support Write4U’s statement “Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”
Slavery seems connected with capitalism only through Marxist writings. This fits with the Russia and China inclusion in the top slave holding list.

I think slavery IS the perfect form of unrestricted capitalism. It’s just that slavery (but not capitalism) has become anathema in the free world, but it doesn’t negate the premise. It’s still a true statement.

Lois

[ Edited: 24 January 2016 12:37 AM by LoisL ]
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Posted: 24 January 2016 04:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Write4U - 23 January 2016 08:24 PM
JSmith - 23 January 2016 06:18 PM
Write4U - 23 January 2016 03:44 PM
JSmith - 23 January 2016 08:08 AM
Write4U - 22 January 2016 10:27 PM
JSmith - 22 January 2016 08:49 PM

A recap and Tim’s behavior.
Tim starts by introducing those who accept unbridled capitalism as people who turn other people into commodities. He asserts that this ” is all of us, to the extent that we accept unbridled capitalism.”
Tim is so adamant about his opinion he admittedly “butts in”.

I’ll butt in with a single statement.
“Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”.

This man, Larry Reed, is president of the Foundation for Economic Education. It does not appear he advocates or owns slaves: http://libertarianchristians.com/2016/01/22/real-heroes/?utm_source=LibertarianChristians.com+List&utm_campaign=cc16171d83-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_78901f0b30-cc16171d83-331936697

If Write 4U’s hypothetical statement is correct, a search of slavery in the modern world, should show up highly capitalistic nations.
Here are the nations where slavery is legal today including Russia and China (not known for unbridled capitalism) http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/23/countries-with-most-slaves_n_6207628.html

My brief analysis is that there is insuffficient scientific evidence to support Write4U’s statement “Slavery is the perfect form of unrestricted (unbridled) capitalism”
Slavery seems connected with capitalism only through Marxist writings. This fits with the Russia and China inclusion in the top slave holding list.

You’re making all this too complicated. Cheap Labor is the key to higher profit. And that’s also why we buy stuff from China. and China, oddly, is the fastest growing economy in the world. What is the ration of import v exports now?

  That’s how our slave owners got rich and the idea of Capitalism was held up as the path to wealth, yes for a few slave owners. Note: with the term *slave* in am not referring to ethnicity.

Of course my simple straightforward analysis is, for you, complicated for you. How is it complicated for you? You don’t say. You just go on with a new set of topics.
You go on about cheap labor, profit, fast growing economies, and imports v exports…as if these change China’s uncapitalistic attitude under the single party communist slave holding state.

It remains that slavery, is negatively correlated with capitalism today and throughout history. I don’t know if you can understand the word correlated or not. If you perhaps do, it means things appearing together. The claim made by TimB and the claim under review is that unbridled capitalism and slavery are somehow correlated when you stated those who embrace unbridled capitalism promote slavery. No one else, who is credible, tends to see this in credible scientific analysis. Analysis is a word that means “detailed examination of the elements or structure of something, typically as a basis for discussion or interpretation”. 

Of course your opinions may work for those who are used to politically driven discussion which cares about nothing but winning or “not losing”. Right now, not losing your point that slavery increases as unbridled capitalism increases, may be your best hope. Yet, already your point is lost. As is evident, China, a nation that does not value or embrace “unbridled capitalism”, is one of the largest slave holding nations in the world. I use some outside detailed sources to present this evidence. As usual, there is no evidence presented in your opinion. Russia provides an example just like China. 

Why not actually learn something specific to your opinions posted at a whim on this board through hard work and study about slavery, economics, and profit? here is a good place to start: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/09/economic-history-2, there are many more.

There is only value in replying to points directly connected to the correlation between unbridled capitalism and slavery only. If anyone wishes to go on, I require a definition of unbridled capitalism as that is a popish term with a religious heritage. Can you imagine using a term made popular by a man who believes that his words can be the words of God? OMG.

You are still looking at this from a naive academic theoretical interpretation.  I am not talking about the *concept* of Capitalism, I am talking about applied *unrestricted* capitalism, you know the *creative* kind that brought about the market crash and cost the tax payers a billion dollars to bail out the *rich*. I am talking about the *unrestricted* capitalism that dumps toxic wastes into *public* waters. I am talking about the *Halliburton loophole*, exempting oil and gas *frackers* from EPA regulations. I am talking about the Supreme Court’s ruling on *Citizens United”, resulting in the corruption of the entire “Democratic” process. For the *billions* of dollars spent on elections, we could use this money for more worthy purposes, don’t you agree?

Flint is the latest example of the application of *cost-saving* water treatments, resulting in irreversibly lead poisoning of some 6000 people.

Donald Trump proudly declared that he made a profit from declaring bankruptcy, “because it was legal”.

Bankruptcy is a legal status of a person or other entity that cannot repay the debts it owes to creditors.

Thousands of Elephants being killed for ivory, Gorillas being killed for using their hands as ashtrays. Oil spills from using more *cost-effective* but malfunctioning pump valves, resulting in a devastating oilspill, practically destroying the local ecosystem for many years. Big Pharma rushing dangerous drugs to the *highly competitive* drug market. Does the term “acceptable risk” ring a bell? What that means is the profits will far outweight the possible cost of lawsuits.

“Money, money, money makes the world go around”
As an ex-accountant, I know a thing or two about *unrestricted* (creative) corporate thinking. Do you?

It’s not the concept of Capitalism I condemn, it’s the qualifier *unrestricted* that I have a problem with. Is that clear enough now?  It is an historic fact that “money = power” and power is almost always used to make more money at cost of *communal* resources and lower living standards for the working poor (formerly known as the *middle-class*).

As long as *greed* is considered a virtue, *unrestricted* Capitalism almost always leads to abuse.

p.s. in a purely Capitalist system, high unemployment is a tool for negotiating lower wages in manufacturing, as well as a human resource for the military industrial complex. It becomes purely Darwinian process, as opposed to a Humanitarian process.

It was capitalism exactly as you, and the Popes of History, wish it to be, “bridled” by the expert government of Michigan and Flint that caused the water problems. The examples you provide proof exactly the opposite of what you say and I will no longer engage such illogical and irrational approaches. Here is the proof of who caused the water problems: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/how-flint-water-got-poisonous_us_569907f5e4b0b4eb759e1426

Just because you know how money moves in some accounting sheet is irrelevant it’s how the money moves and why it moves. Who’ve moved the money and whose money is? Capitalism, the unbridled type, makes clear ownership and responsibility to the parties most affected by the money situations. It gives parents and communities incentive to teach their children about money early often and forever. That is my life practice and goal in harmony with the Presidents Council for financial capability. But going far beyond. Like to the ridiculous irrational disconnected statements on this board. People are fine they just been abused by propaganda such as unbridled capitalism caused the drinking water problems in Flint when obviously that is a tremendous lie even though it might not be intended as such, I don’t know what’s in your intent don’t really care because it’s obvious here how wrong your statement is.

I’m sure you could go on and on with all kinds of little examples that don’t fit as if that is some kind of proof.

Then someone somewhere here said the start another section of this. Maybe it was Lois. So fine. If someone wants to start by but I’m not going to. I didn’t start this. This whole thing started by someone sticking their butt in. So far that butt and All the other butts have gotten kicked real hard real good and real often without a single miss. My foot is getting sore but these Butts are thick headed. Your posts are unworthy of an informed response but since I need the practice, I may stay around and keep up on the Pope’s propoganda. After all, his ideology of control in the name of his God has been a major enemy of humanity and freedom to live, love, and learn in exciting security of reality. What do Karl Marx and the Pope have in common? An irrational ideology. One with God, one without. The connector? Irrationality and arrogance of opinion stated as reality, as science, as truth then hurting, abusing, manipulating, and stealing money by hook and crook. Decadent indulgence in the name of austere piety or social justice. Their end is the death of civil society. Here, at CFI forums, their ideas are too advocated.

[ Edited: 24 January 2016 04:58 AM by JSmith ]
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Posted: 24 January 2016 05:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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What on earth are you talking about? Apparently you have not read CFI’s Mission Statement or you would not make such unfounded accusations.

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Posted: 24 January 2016 01:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Huh.  My butt has been getting soundly kicked.  Funny, I haven’t noticed.

JS, There is no such thing existing in the world as a country that utilizes completely unrestricted capitalism.  Why is that?  I suggest that it is because it doesn’t work.  Not that it is due to the Pope.

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Posted: 24 January 2016 03:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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BTW, I have started a thread, under Politics, that might be a more appropriate category for this discussion.  If interested, it is titled:  “What this world needs is Free Unrestricted Capitalism?”

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Posted: 31 January 2016 04:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Write4U - 24 January 2016 05:41 AM

What on earth are you talking about? Apparently you have not read CFI’s Mission Statement or you would not make such unfounded accusations.

Mission statements are words on paper and are often far from the practice of those who act under the mission’s banner or on the mission’s forum board.

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Posted: 31 January 2016 05:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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TimB - 24 January 2016 01:38 PM

Huh.  My butt has been getting soundly kicked.  Funny, I haven’t noticed.

Noticing is not important when one can just jump to a new side of a discussion or subject linking back with only ad hominem innuendo.
In such patterns, not noticing is a well honed skill.

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Posted: 31 January 2016 11:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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JSmith - 31 January 2016 05:01 AM
TimB - 24 January 2016 01:38 PM

Huh.  My butt has been getting soundly kicked.  Funny, I haven’t noticed.

Noticing is not important when one can just jump to a new side of a discussion or subject linking back with only ad hominem innuendo.
In such patterns, not noticing is a well honed skill.

Thanks for noticing.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 31 January 2016 12:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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TimB - 31 January 2016 11:18 AM
JSmith - 31 January 2016 05:01 AM
TimB - 24 January 2016 01:38 PM

Huh.  My butt has been getting soundly kicked.  Funny, I haven’t noticed.

Noticing is not important when one can just jump to a new side of a discussion or subject linking back with only ad hominem innuendo.
In such patterns, not noticing is a well honed skill.

Thanks for noticing.

Using tactics that ignore observable evidence, use ad hominem innuendo, and jump to a new opinion in opposition to another does not rise to the standard of “good faith” dialogue. It is trolling.

CFI does allow for actions in such cases. Good Bye TimB

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