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Darwin Day Revelation: Evolution, Not Religion, is the Source of Morality
Posted: 13 February 2016 08:52 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I came across a interesting article some of you might enjoy.

http://thehumanist.com/commentary/darwin-day-revelation-evolution-not-religion-source-morality
BY CLAY FARRIS NAFF • 10 FEBRUARY 2016

(clipped lots of interesting info)
...If evolution is so settled (and it is), why the continual fracas? For an answer, we turn to Darwin’s beloved geology professor, Adam Sedgwick of Cambridge University. On reading Origin of Species, Sedgwick, a devout Christian, wrote to Darwin:

This view of nature you have stated admirably [is] admitted by all naturalists & denied by no one of common sense. … [But] Tis the crown & glory of organic science that it does … link material to moral … Were it possible (which thank God it is not) to break it, humanity in my mind, would suffer a damage that might brutalize it—and sink the human race into … degradation.

There you have it: the elemental fear that belief in evolution will cause morality to collapse. That fear is predicated on a powerful assumption: that morality comes to us from God via religion. This is false. It is demonstrably false.

If religion were God’s UPS, delivering a package of moral laws to humanity, you’d expect a single, consistent set. Yet, each religion includes unique laws that outsiders find baffling or repugnant. Hinduism has its “untouchables.” Buddhism (as understood by many) spurns those born blind or otherwise disabled for bad behavior in past lives. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity each have their oddities: Judaism’s law against mixing meat and dairy, Islam’s prohibition on figurative art, and Christianity’s ritual drinking of Christ’s blood, for example.

These do not add up to clear guidelines from God. And it’s no use to argue that one religion is right and the others false, for there’s no consistent interpretation of morality—not even of central commandments such as “Thou Shalt Not Kill”—within any major religion. But perhaps God as lawgiver can be rescued if we just blame human stubbornness and stupidity.

Sorry, it won’t wash. If religion were the vehicle that delivers morality, then atheists, the disaffiliated, and those who have never heard of God’s laws should show comparatively inferior moral behavior. They don’t. ...

[ Edited: 13 February 2016 09:25 AM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 13 February 2016 10:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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CC, You and I must have great minds.  I linked to that article, via a different link in a different thread.  http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewreply/219983/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/clay-naff/darwin-day-revelation-evo_b_9181664.html

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Posted: 14 February 2016 07:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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To put it even more simply, if religion was the origin and source of morality and ethical behavior then we wouldn’t be having this discussion as the Cro Magnons would have killed themselves off. Of course that would have left our cousins to populate the Earth and there is scant evidence that Neanderthals even had a rudimentary sense of religion. Hmm, I wonder what type of World that would have been?


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 18 February 2016 07:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 14 February 2016 07:28 PM

To put it even more simply, if religion was the origin and source of morality and ethical behavior then we wouldn’t be having this discussion as the Cro Magnons would have killed themselves off. Of course that would have left our cousins to populate the Earth and there is scant evidence that Neanderthals even had a rudimentary sense of religion. Hmm, I wonder what type of World that would have been?


Cap’t Jack

The Neanderthals were around for a long time.  A lot longer than we homo-sapiens have been, so far, right?

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Posted: 18 February 2016 08:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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TimB - 18 February 2016 07:48 PM
Thevillageatheist - 14 February 2016 07:28 PM

To put it even more simply, if religion was the origin and source of morality and ethical behavior then we wouldn’t be having this discussion as the Cro Magnons would have killed themselves off. Of course that would have left our cousins to populate the Earth and there is scant evidence that Neanderthals even had a rudimentary sense of religion. Hmm, I wonder what type of World that would have been?


Cap’t Jack

The Neanderthals were around for a long time.  A lot longer than we homo-sapiens have been, so far, right?

I got impatient and tried to answer my own question. Wikipedia suggested that the first true Neanderthals only emerged 200,000 to 250,000 years ago and estimates of modern homo-sapiens emergence is 200,000 years ago.  Neanderthals died out around 40,000 years ago.  So I guess, we, roughly have about 10,000 years to go, to exceed the species life-span of the Neanderthals.

Strange to think that we shared the planet with them for over 150,000 years and never got it on with any of them until shortly before they died out.  Maybe they died off due to STD’s.  Or maybe we infected them with religious ideas, and they got so depressed, that they just gave up the ghost.

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Posted: 18 February 2016 08:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Our ancestors may have mated with Neanderthals much earlier than that.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160217140302.htm

Researchers report strong evidence of an interbreeding event between Neanderthals and modern humans occurring around 100,000 years ago, much earlier than any previously documented.

Further evidence that men will hump anything. Just kidding. No offense meant to Neanderthals.

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Posted: 19 February 2016 06:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I got impatient and tried to answer my own question. Wikipedia suggested that the first true Neanderthals only emerged 200,000 to 250,000 years ago and estimates of modern homo-sapiens emergence is 200,000 years ago.  Neanderthals died out around 40,000 years ago.  So I guess, we, roughly have about 10,000 years to go, to exceed the species life-span of the Neanderthals.

Strange to think that we shared the planet with them for over 150,000 years and never got it on with any of them until shortly before they died out.  Maybe they died off due to STD’s.  Or maybe we infected them with religious ideas, and they got so depressed, that they just gave up the ghost.

Sorry Tim, I was stuck on FB arguing politics with a direct descendant of a Neanderthal, or at Troglodyte, can’t remember which. But yeah, our species has been around for roughly 200,000 years but Neanderthal died out somewhere nearer to 30,000- 24,000 ya if my memory serves me. The last remains were found in a cave near Gibraltar. There was evidence of cannibalism BTW so they probably couldn’t compete. There is scant evidence that they had some sort of rudimentary religion e.g. Sprinkling red ochre on the corpse and burying the body with flowers but that’s about it. So far archeologists place the budding of communal religious practices just before civilization began ca. 14,000 ya. Not much before that as people were still at least semi nomadic.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 19 February 2016 02:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 19 February 2016 06:15 AM

I got impatient and tried to answer my own question. Wikipedia suggested that the first true Neanderthals only emerged 200,000 to 250,000 years ago and estimates of modern homo-sapiens emergence is 200,000 years ago.  Neanderthals died out around 40,000 years ago.  So I guess, we, roughly have about 10,000 years to go, to exceed the species life-span of the Neanderthals.

Strange to think that we shared the planet with them for over 150,000 years and never got it on with any of them until shortly before they died out.  Maybe they died off due to STD’s.  Or maybe we infected them with religious ideas, and they got so depressed, that they just gave up the ghost.

Sorry Tim, I was stuck on FB arguing politics with a direct descendant of a Neanderthal, or at Troglodyte, can’t remember which. But yeah, our species has been around for roughly 200,000 years but Neanderthal died out somewhere nearer to 30,000- 24,000 ya if my memory serves me. The last remains were found in a cave near Gibraltar. There was evidence of cannibalism BTW so they probably couldn’t compete. There is scant evidence that they had some sort of rudimentary religion e.g. Sprinkling red ochre on the corpse and burying the body with flowers but that’s about it. So far archeologists place the budding of communal religious practices just before civilization began ca. 14,000 ya. Not much before that as people were still at least semi nomadic.


Cap’t Jack

Thanks.  So it was probably not our religiosity that doomed the Neanderthals. Also, I heard a blurb on a news report, referring to a recent study that suggested that homo-sapiens first contact with Neanderthals was much earlier than previously thought.

(Also, I hope that you don’t hold the person’s, that you were arguing with, Neanderthal heritage against him, as I suspect that I have a bit of Neanderthal in me.)

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Posted: 21 February 2016 06:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Thanks.  So it was probably not our religiosity that doomed the Neanderthals. Also, I heard a blurb on a news report, referring to a recent study that suggested that homo-sapiens first contact with Neanderthals was much earlier than previously thought.

(Also, I hope that you don’t hold the person’s, that you were arguing with, Neanderthal heritage against him, as I suspect that I have a bit of Neanderthal in me.)

Yeah, I read that article too and it’s entirely plausible that it occurred, but am waiting for more evidence. Sometimes these guys jump the gun! My argument with the Neanderthal devolved into an Ad Hominen attack so I backed out of his cave. Lots of that going on on FB, especially after the S.C. Debacle and my pick for the GOP just quit. Now I have egg on my face!


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 21 February 2016 10:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 21 February 2016 06:32 AM

Thanks.  So it was probably not our religiosity that doomed the Neanderthals. Also, I heard a blurb on a news report, referring to a recent study that suggested that homo-sapiens first contact with Neanderthals was much earlier than previously thought.

(Also, I hope that you don’t hold the person’s, that you were arguing with, Neanderthal heritage against him, as I suspect that I have a bit of Neanderthal in me.)

Yeah, I read that article too and it’s entirely plausible that it occurred, but am waiting for more evidence. Sometimes these guys jump the gun! My argument with the Neanderthal devolved into an Ad Hominen attack so I backed out of his cave. Lots of that going on on FB, especially after the S.C. Debacle and my pick for the GOP just quit. Now I have egg on my face!


Cap’t Jack

Oooh.  You should have asked me about Jeb!  I pretty much figured he was DOA a looong time ago. The albatross of the “W” presidency doomed Jeb! from the get-go.

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Posted: 21 February 2016 11:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Oooh.  You should have asked me about Jeb!  I pretty much figured he was DOA a looong time ago. The albatross of the “W” presidency doomed Jeb! from the get-go.

And now who will the Repubs. trot out as a moderate candidate, Rubio? Kasich? I don’t think these two have the staying power of Trump or Cruz. Scary: a choice between a demagogue or a theocrat. Moderate Republicans are desperately trying to fund a suitable substitute and it ain’t happenin’. Trump is way out ahead of the ever thinning pack!


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Posted: 21 February 2016 12:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 21 February 2016 11:23 AM

Oooh.  You should have asked me about Jeb!  I pretty much figured he was DOA a looong time ago. The albatross of the “W” presidency doomed Jeb! from the get-go.

And now who will the Repubs. trot out as a moderate candidate, Rubio? Kasich? I don’t think these two have the staying power of Trump or Cruz. Scary: a choice between a demagogue or a theocrat. Moderate Republicans are desperately trying to fund a suitable substitute and it ain’t happenin’. Trump is way out ahead of the ever thinning pack!


Cap’t Jack

Rubio, appears to me to be the only real chance for the Repubs to put the pieces of their party back together.  But they very well may not be able to pull that off.  Cruz would be their worst choice, for them (and for all of us in the slim chance that he could win the general). And as crazy as it is, I prefer Trump to either Rubio or Cruz.  (Note: If puppy-monkey-baby had a shot at the Repub nomination, I would prefer that particular abomination-to-all-that-is-holy, to Trump, but puppy-monkey-baby is not in the running.)

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Posted: 21 February 2016 08:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Rubio, appears to me to be the only real chance for the Repubs to put the pieces of their party back together.  But they very well may not be able to pull that off.  Cruz would be their worst choice, for them (and for all of us in the slim chance that he could win the general). And as crazy as it is, I prefer Trump to either Rubio or Cruz.  (Note: If puppy-monkey-baby had a shot at the Repub nomination, I would prefer that particular abomination-to-all-that-is-holy, to Trump, but puppy-monkey-baby is not in the running.)

I agree and would choose Trump ( blech, just threw up in my mouth) over the other two loonie tunes and BTW that was the weirdest SB commercial I’ve ever seen. And I watch the SB just for the commercials. Maybe Trump should co-op it into a political attack ad.

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 21 February 2016 10:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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TimB - 18 February 2016 07:48 PM
Thevillageatheist - 14 February 2016 07:28 PM

To put it even more simply, if religion was the origin and source of morality and ethical behavior then we wouldn’t be having this discussion as the Cro Magnons would have killed themselves off. Of course that would have left our cousins to populate the Earth and there is scant evidence that Neanderthals even had a rudimentary sense of religion. Hmm, I wonder what type of World that would have been?


Cap’t Jack

The Neanderthals were around for a long time.  A lot longer than we homo-sapiens have been, so far, right?

Maybe it was their lack of religion that gave them an advantage when it came to survival. They weren’t hobbled by it as modern humans are.

Lois

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Posted: 22 February 2016 05:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Maybe it was their lack of religion that gave them an advantage when it came to survival. They weren’t hobbled by it as modern humans are.

Interesting thought but they evolved to fit the Pleistocene era and spent their entire lives in the hunting-gathering mode so they had little time for contemplation. Also, limited language skills hampered their ability to communicate beyond the need for basic survival. They probably learned rudimentary religious practices from the CFO-Magnons they encountered.


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Posted: 23 February 2016 01:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 21 February 2016 08:45 PM

Rubio, appears to me to be the only real chance for the Repubs to put the pieces of their party back together.  But they very well may not be able to pull that off.  Cruz would be their worst choice, for them (and for all of us in the slim chance that he could win the general). And as crazy as it is, I prefer Trump to either Rubio or Cruz.  (Note: If puppy-monkey-baby had a shot at the Repub nomination, I would prefer that particular abomination-to-all-that-is-holy, to Trump, but puppy-monkey-baby is not in the running.)

I agree and would choose Trump ( blech, just threw up in my mouth) over the other two loonie tunes and BTW that was the weirdest SB commercial I’ve ever seen. And I watch the SB just for the commercials. Maybe Trump should co-op it into a political attack ad.
Cap’t Jack

That could work.  If it comes down to Trump v. Rubio, Trump could make an ad portraying Rubio as puppy-monkey-baby.  The abomination could be prancing about, repeating, over and over “Let’s dispel of this fiction that Barack Obama doesn’t know what he’s doing.” while mindless young people are marching along behind, chanting “Marco-Rubio-baby.” “Marco-Rubio-baby.” “Marco-Rubio-baby.”

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