1 of 2
1
Music next to godliness?
Posted: 17 April 2016 02:08 AM   [ Ignore ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6516
Joined  2010-08-15

Oh lordie, I’m going to pay for this tomorrow.  2:50 am - 6 am wake up call in my immediate future.
Last night (er two nights ago) I paced myself and made it to bed by ~1am, … up at 6am.
But, you know, why the heck put in the time, if you’re not going to enjoy the fruits!?
A life well spent burns both ends of the candle.

Such as listening to top notch professional musicians - having fun and showing off with each other - up close and personal.
Like few will ever experience.
And the halls were on fire again, at least six distinct circles going on, at the time of my walk through.

But now to the real point of this post:

Trust me on this, lend a musician an attentive ear* and the most amazing music can evolve - I mean they are all about showing off what they got.
After closing the ‘green room’ at 11pm I got to wondering around. By and by I found myself in front of three guys, a mandolin, two guitars, that were playing around,… but then when I join the circle to listen in my focused sort of way* things took a more serious bend and and glory be if it didn’t turn into like 15+ min jam reaching intense crescendos with soothing interludes that soften you up for the next crescendo.
I mean they really pushed each other and rocked it into what I can’t describe as anything less than the spiritual realm.
(*if you happen to be the ‘vip’ who’s been running around dining and beer-ing them meal after meal, so much the better. ; )

I’m taking the time to write this because I want to share this mind-expanding revelation that
IMHO, music is the purest form of valid religion humanity has ever come up with.

I could ramble on, but it’s past 3, I better go to sleep. 
See if any one nibble.  I myself think this as an interesting potential loaded topic.  cheese

 Signature 

We need each other, to keep ourselves honest

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 April 2016 05:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6640
Joined  2007-10-05

Reminds me of why I saw so many sunrises at the Kerrville Folk Festival. Good times. Spent many nights around campfires listening to musicians trade songs. Helped carry Townes Van Zandt to his van. Followed Dana Cooper around the camps singing Monty Python songs. Enjoyed Mary Travers showing me photos of her grandchildren.

Ah, the memories. Glad you’re having fun. You can sleep later.

 Signature 

You cannot have a rational discussion with someone who holds irrational beliefs.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 April 2016 07:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1591
Joined  2010-04-22

If you think that listening to great musicians can be an incredible experience, try participating! grin

 Signature 

“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”

- Thelonious Monk

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 April 2016 11:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4335
Joined  2014-06-20
TromboneAndrew - 17 April 2016 07:55 AM

If you think that listening to great musicians can be an incredible experience, try participating! grin

But PLEASE, only if you can actually play an instrumemt or sing! I’ve heard too many “participants” producing cacophony.

 Signature 

[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 April 2016 02:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6640
Joined  2007-10-05
LoisL - 17 April 2016 11:22 AM
TromboneAndrew - 17 April 2016 07:55 AM

If you think that listening to great musicians can be an incredible experience, try participating! grin

But PLEASE, only if you can actually play an instrumemt or sing! I’ve heard too many “participants” producing cacophony.

Been there, heard that, went off to another campfire.

 Signature 

You cannot have a rational discussion with someone who holds irrational beliefs.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 April 2016 04:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1591
Joined  2010-04-22
LoisL - 17 April 2016 11:22 AM
TromboneAndrew - 17 April 2016 07:55 AM

If you think that listening to great musicians can be an incredible experience, try participating! grin

But PLEASE, only if you can actually play an instrumemt or sing! I’ve heard too many “participants” producing cacophony.

Yeah, maybe don’t try to participate in front of an expectant audience. That’s not the only way. Not to mention, it’ll likely be quite nerve-wracking for you unless you’ve done it a lot.

 Signature 

“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”

- Thelonious Monk

Profile
 
 
Posted: 17 April 2016 08:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6516
Joined  2010-08-15
TromboneAndrew - 17 April 2016 07:55 AM

If you think that listening to great musicians can be an incredible experience, try participating! grin

Gotta have the chops - Imagine my poor dad, life long top rung musician * and not a one of his five kids have it in their blood, though all of us had lessons and encouragement and exposure galore.
But, I can connect with good music, and when it’s right, man can I dance.

This weekend was sort of a dance - but of the high intensity production type… feed me the people said.
Now, it’s done, I’m home and tired but content - Another genuine marathon like the old days and it flowed better than ever, what experience will do for one. 

This festival is a crazy magical moment in time and space that couldn’t be recreated anywhere else.
A classic venue, great donors, great volunteer help, great cooperation from a hotel who offers the rooms and their restaurant staff busy with their own full on rush situation.  All to make room for a bunch of musicians to knock our respective socks off.

What makes this event such a thrill is that in my 20s and 30s, and some of my forties, I was mainly about restaurants, cooking and hospitality and service and working long hours as if possessed, then traveling in-between gigs.
It was great for me at the time, profitable and something about me enjoys that controlled chaos and thrill getting through it - not to mention the perks of travel and other stuff.

But I’ve left that long behind me.  Now by way of weird circumstance I find myself in a key position of a huge endeavor - for three days, it’s like I’m the captain of my little fiefdom and I get to prance through this kitchen with tons of shit going on.  And I get to do it because of those endless hours of experience and understanding the flow of a kitchen, how to move and communicate and stay out the way and even more satisfying gaining the trust, cooperation and even friendship of chefs and crew. 

To me that sort of stuff is what being a humanist is all about. 
Being engaged with life and living the moments, being a constructive, productive member of a society, not that I’m a socialist tongue wink
Finding magic in the moment and living it.  And the going through the various tests along the way.

now it’s time for me to pass out in my own bed.

*{I realize that’s not accurate, and feel a need to correct it.
Dad’s serious music and playing days were is his younger life
1930s,‘40s,‘50s,‘60s, he’s even on the Chicago Musicians’ Union Rolls,  first few years in the 70s -
but the family and life kept evolving, other more immediate challenges kept hitting him and eating up his time.
Playing music drifted away.
He remained a great appreciator always, of classical and jazz that is.
I did get him to admit that Elton John’s long instrumentalFuneral for a Friend showed Rock had a deep appreciation of classical music.}

[ Edited: 01 May 2016 01:20 PM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
 Signature 

We need each other, to keep ourselves honest

Profile
 
 
Posted: 18 April 2016 06:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6640
Joined  2007-10-05

Sleep well, you’ve earned it.

 Signature 

You cannot have a rational discussion with someone who holds irrational beliefs.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 April 2016 03:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1577
Joined  2012-04-25
citizenschallenge.pm - 17 April 2016 02:08 AM

I’m taking the time to write this because I want to share this mind-expanding revelation that
IMHO, music is the purest form of valid religion humanity has ever come up with.

And incidently I think this is why so many church goers, especially at black churches that feature music centrally, get that same musical “high”. Unfortunately they mistake it for relating to christianity when in fact it’s just a general human-based high.

On another note (ba dum dum) I think what you experienced is pure creativity which IS spiritual in the best sense. When experienced like you did you become separated from your small self and become part of the universal mind that the musicians have helped tap into. And it doesn’t have to be live performances. Check out great jazz improvisors like Coltrane or Michael Brecker, or orchestral music such as Clair de Lune.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 April 2016 05:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7846
Joined  2009-02-26

One does not necessarily have to personally perform, but you can share music that you find appealing.

*Paltalk Messenger* has a music forum with sub-forums for all types of music, where you can broadcast music from your own music library.

I host a broadcast room in the Jazz section, named *Foggy Manor Jazz Club* and have as many as 20 jazz lovers and musicians listening or sharing their favorites with everyone and chat (text) about jazz music news in general.

The beauty of this is that we can listen and discuss jazz music from all over the world, which is not normally accessible on public radio. The sound is not of CD quality, but with a little tweaking of volume and bass/treble controls one can present the music with acceptable clarity and transparency.

IMO, it is a great site for music lovers and it is free (unless you want to take advantage of special features offered as options). Best of all you don’t have to travel to hear or play great music.

 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 20 April 2016 06:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7846
Joined  2009-02-26

On topic,

I am not surprised that music is a “universal language”.  The entire universe exists by the *wave functon* and it should not be a surprise that humans as well as most all other organisms respond to sound waves. You can bring down a bridge with wind waves.

There is evidence that plants respond to music. Several controlled experiments seem to provide proof that plants actually have preferences in types of music. Not responding to the creativity of the performer, but responding to *compatible* wave frequencies.

In one experient of cloned (identical) plants placed in seperate identically controlled rooms responded positively or negatively to various types of music. It was shown that plants thrived and actually grew towards the sound source of soft and pleasing music and some actually placed leaves against speakers, whereas their clones, exposed to loud *heavy metal* music, would fail to thrive and grew (shrank) away from the speakers.

The researchers concluded that plants have cognition of sound waves, which is not surprising as their main source of energy are light waves.

[ Edited: 22 April 2016 02:20 PM by Write4U ]
 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 April 2016 10:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1577
Joined  2012-04-25
Write4U - 20 April 2016 06:05 PM

On topic,

I am not surprised that music is a “universal language”.  The entire universe exists by the *wave functon* and it should not be a surprise that humans as well as most all other organisms respond to sound waves.

There is evidence that plants respond to music. Several controlled experiments seem to provide proof that plants actually have preferences in types of music..

In one experient of cloned (identical) plants placed in seperate identically controlled rooms responded positively or negatively to various types of music. It was shown that plants thrived and actually grew towards the sound source of soft and pleasing music and some actually placed leaves against speakers, whereas their clones, exposed to loud *heavy metal* music, would fail to thrive and grew (shrank) away from the speakers.

The researchers concluded that plants have cognition of sound waves, which is not surprising as their main source of energy are light waves.

Well, the wave function doesn’t really have to do with actual waves. It’s really a mathematical “object”. And music isn’t just an assembly of sound waves. If that were the case a bunch of honking horns in downtown Chicago would be considered music. (Yes I know, someone could consider that music, but that’s not what I’m talking about). The thing that makes music universal is the creativity behind it. It’s the creativity that’s universal.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 April 2016 11:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5257
Joined  2011-11-04

I think that music is like language but also unlike language.  It expresses and elicits emotions amongst social creatures.

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 21 April 2016 11:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7846
Joined  2009-02-26
CuthbertJ - 21 April 2016 10:08 AM
Write4U - 20 April 2016 06:05 PM

On topic,

I am not surprised that music is a “universal language”.  The entire universe exists by the *wave functon* and it should not be a surprise that humans as well as most all other organisms respond to sound waves.

There is evidence that plants respond to music. Several controlled experiments seem to provide proof that plants actually have preferences in types of music..

In one experient of cloned (identical) plants placed in seperate identically controlled rooms responded positively or negatively to various types of music. It was shown that plants thrived and actually grew towards the sound source of soft and pleasing music and some actually placed leaves against speakers, whereas their clones, exposed to loud *heavy metal* music, would fail to thrive and grew (shrank) away from the speakers.

The researchers concluded that plants have cognition of sound waves, which is not surprising as their main source of energy are light waves.

Well, the wave function doesn’t really have to do with actual waves. It’s really a mathematical “object”.

I agree.

And music isn’t just an assembly of sound waves. If that were the case a bunch of honking horns in downtown Chicago would be considered music. (Yes I know, someone could consider that music, but that’s not what I’m talking about). The thing that makes music universal is the creativity behind it. It’s the creativity that’s universal.

Well, that makes the plant experiment even more remarkable, no?  They did prefer Mozart over That Heavy Metal band.

But the mathematics of music run deeper than just creativity. (assuming competency), it is a true natural language.

watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOtAFiI39_I

At first it may not seem related, but it will address the question music and it’s harmonic properties.

[ Edited: 21 April 2016 11:39 PM by Write4U ]
 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 April 2016 06:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6640
Joined  2007-10-05
Write4U - 20 April 2016 06:05 PM

In one experiment…

This phrase is a huge red flag, so I looked it up on the Internet. Seems the “one experiment” was not as authoritative as the legend it has become over the years. Almost all retellings leave out the initial F-tone experiment, and then get the specific classical music wrong. One recent article stated plants prefer Bach, Beethoven and Mozart. Dorothy Retallack performed the experiment in the 1970s while at Colorado Women’s University, She played Debussy, Louis Armstrong and Ravi Shankar to one group of plants; Led Zeppelin, Vanilla Fudge and Jimi Hendrix to another; and no music to a control group. Most news articles (and every FB meme I’ve seen) fail to point out Retallack’s obvious biases. She believed plants are capable of emotions and have ESP, and the lyrics in Heavy Metal music disturbed the plants. Mythbusters did a segment on the effects of music on plants and found that Heavy Metal music stimulates plant growth. They said nothing about ESP and plant depression.

http://www.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_effects_of_music_on_plants

[ Edited: 22 April 2016 06:05 AM by DarronS ]
 Signature 

You cannot have a rational discussion with someone who holds irrational beliefs.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 April 2016 02:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7846
Joined  2009-02-26
DarronS - 22 April 2016 06:02 AM
Write4U - 20 April 2016 06:05 PM

In one experiment…

This phrase is a huge red flag, so I looked it up on the Internet. Seems the “one experiment” was not as authoritative as the legend it has become over the years. Almost all retellings leave out the initial F-tone experiment, and then get the specific classical music wrong. One recent article stated plants prefer Bach, Beethoven and Mozart. Dorothy Retallack performed the experiment in the 1970s while at Colorado Women’s University, She played Debussy, Louis Armstrong and Ravi Shankar to one group of plants; Led Zeppelin, Vanilla Fudge and Jimi Hendrix to another; and no music to a control group. Most news articles (and every FB meme I’ve seen) fail to point out Retallack’s obvious biases. She believed plants are capable of emotions and have ESP, and the lyrics in Heavy Metal music disturbed the plants. Mythbusters did a segment on the effects of music on plants and found that Heavy Metal music stimulates plant growth. They said nothing about ESP and plant depression.

http://www.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_effects_of_music_on_plants

Thanks for keepng me honest and I should have refreshed my memory of the article I read many years ago.
I must admit that my post was sloppy and incorrect in certain details. I hope the thrust of the obsevation was not obscured by the flawed presentation.

  The main point was that plants do respond to soundwaves as well as to light waves and physically aim their flowers for maximum sunlght. I believe the process is called *heliotropism*.  The method they use for that ablity is secondary, they seem to be able orient themselves toward the sun as the earth circles the sun. So there must be a mechanism which allows the flower to *sense* the apparent movement of the light source.

This may be very rudimentary but IMO, it is the first sign of a form of sentience and cognition. It does however confirm the *fibonacci sequence* in its flowers as it does in daisies.

It feels good to look at, doesn’t it?  Something about bright yellow and radial symmetry is so pleasing to the eyes and mind. [color=red] Perhaps the visual buzz we get from gazing on sunflowers is due to the arrangement of the flower parts in what is known as Fibbonaci (Fibonacci) spirals, which I will not attempt to explain to you, but which you can learn about here in a fascinating animation.  No matter how much you understand Fibbonaci spirals, sunflowers are captivating.

http://biologicalthinking.blogspot.com/2012/08/why-do-sunflowers-follow-sun.html

Mythbusters did a segment on the effects of music on plants and found that Heavy Metal music stimulates plant growth. They said nothing about ESP and plant depression.

  Of course mythbusters are not biologists and their experiments are aslo suspect as a control factor. Moreover I said nothing about ESP or understanding the lyrics.

But I know from experience that when you stress a plant it will start flowering (producing seeds( as a defense mechanism. This change of function from growth to producing flowers does inhibit the growth of the plant itself. so it might produce its flowers earlier, but its growth is stunted and the chance for survival among still growing taller plants would be diminished.

[ Edited: 22 April 2016 02:26 PM by Write4U ]
 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 2
1