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Isn’t the World Facing the Islamic Music?
Posted: 29 September 2016 02:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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You’re not the first to ask that Lois, but you don’t “get time” to fit into the current world. You either do or you don’t. I can excuse individuals for thinking a certain way because their environment is isolated from that world, but that world exists, and we are talking about people who have the resources to learn from it, and some of them actually have learned from it, but choose to implement what they’ve learned about manipulating minds for their own ends, instead of encouraging others to work together for a better world. Muhammad (or whomever) wrote a new and improved religion by studying where Christianity went wrong. He put in fewer contradictions and provided reasons for the contradictions he did make, leaving less ambiguity.

If you want to compare to the Protestant Reformation, look at all the wars between 1514 when Luther put up his Theses and the Peace at Westphalia in 1648. Civilization would not survive such a scale of cultures clashing and superpowers attempting to wipe each other out. I expect to see some major parliamentary moves in Congress in the next 4 years as we adjust to the failure of the two-party system and the Middle East might come up with a new form of non-nation government, but anything more chaotic than that and I’ll be building a fallout shelter.

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Posted: 29 September 2016 10:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Lausten - 29 September 2016 02:15 PM

You’re not the first to ask that Lois, but you don’t “get time” to fit into the current world. You either do or you don’t. I can excuse individuals for thinking a certain way because their environment is isolated from that world, but that world exists, and we are talking about people who have the resources to learn from it, and some of them actually have learned from it, but choose to implement what they’ve learned about manipulating minds for their own ends, instead of encouraging others to work together for a better world.

Were The Catholics working for a better world when they were terrorizing people for heresy and paganism during the Crusades?  And during the Inquisition when they were torturing people for being Protestants? 

Muhammad (or whomever) wrote a new and improved religion by studying where Christianity went wrong. He put in fewer contradictions and provided reasons for the contradictions he did make, leaving less ambiguity.

If you want to compare to the Protestant Reformation, look at all the wars between 1514 when Luther put up his Theses and the Peace at Westphalia in 1648. Civilization would not survive such a scale of cultures clashing and superpowers attempting to wipe each other out.

My point was to make a comparison to show that present-day Islam is no worse than Christianity was at its worst. Of course I know conditions are different and we live in a different world. I am hardly an apologist for religious terrorism of any kind.  I don’t justify what Islamic terrorists are doing and I don’t justify what Christian terrorists did in the past—nor do I sweep it under the rug.  i was simply trying to show that Christian terrorists in the 11th and 12th centuries were no better than Islamic ones today, and Christians took centuries to become “civilized” (at least up to a point), which is lost on too many Christians. I wasn’t directing my remarks to you but to certain of today’‘s Christians who can’t see the parallels and want to believe that Christianity, unlike Islam. is good and pure because Christians are not engaging in religious terrorism now (as long as you disregard terrorism against abortion providers.) My point was that any comparisons of Christians and Islamists today is false because the two religions are at least 600 years apart uin their “development.” When Christianity was at the point Islam is today, 600 years ago, it was still the Dark Ages.

I expect to see some major parliamentary moves in Congress in the next 4 years as we adjust to the failure of the two-party system and the Middle East might come up with a new form of non-nation government, but anything more chaotic than that and I’ll be building a fallout shelter.

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Posted: 30 September 2016 04:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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My point is, there is no comparison. Islamic terrorism is a modern form of terrorism, that makes it worse. Both religions are equally bad at recognizing the dangers of their own dogma. The wars of the early Roman Catholics were bad, but they were also continuations of Roman conquering that had been going on for centuries, so they weren’t solely a religious war. None of this is helpful in understanding why Muslims do what they do today. The 14th century is much more key to that. Recent movements like Wahhabism or the Ayatollahs are much more important.

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Posted: 30 September 2016 06:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 09 July 2016 03:20 PM
LoisL - 07 July 2016 06:15 PM

Is anyone publicly rcognizing and rejecting the unjust, hateful and atrocious parts of the bible? If so, I haven’t heard about it.

The fact that Christianity has been reforming for centuries can be taken as acknowledging and rejecting the unjust and atrocious parts of the Bible. Two examples: 1) In the Christian-dominated parts of the world, women certainly get a lot more respect today than what is granted to them by the Bible; 2) Today, the Western world surely could not have had almost a fifth of their population as atheists/antagonists without the Christians looking at their religion with a good deal of logic, i.e., abandoning religious dogma.

I agree with both Lausten and Stardusty Psyche. I also basically agree with deros; although the religious world is too powerful for the humanist world to be able to do that right now.

Sam Harris is reading and commenting on his book “The End of Faith” in a series of podcasts on his website. I was listening to Chapter 1 this morning, where he talks about the doors of reason not opening from within religion. Your backwards analysis, that women’s rights proves Christianity reformed itself is not supported by history. Nor it is logical, given the scripture. You can’t alter the meaning of “death to apostates” contained in the Bible, you can only abandon them. There is no Papal Bull condemning burning at the stake that precedes centuries of philosophers attacking such practices. There isn’t anything from the moderates like Erasmus or Aquinas either. Religious moderation was imposed on religion by the creation of a fair and just system. It can’t be imposed by an equally oppressive system.

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Posted: 30 September 2016 06:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 14 July 2016 07:13 PM

To me, anything that can be called blind following of any kind of injustice, hatred or barbarity for Islam or for any other kind of religion is too fanatic to be tolerated by the civilized world.

I wonder how the political/media run up to invading Iraq, in post 9/11 America would rate?

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Posted: 30 September 2016 07:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Lausten - 30 September 2016 06:25 AM

Religious moderation was imposed on religion by the creation of a fair and just system.

Such as rationalism.

I’ve been trying to think of some great Christian reforms…

Having trouble coming up with something.

The Mormon’s perhaps   oh oh

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Posted: 01 October 2016 06:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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MikeYohe - 28 September 2016 01:11 PM

Bangladesh has 82% of the poor educated in the madrasah system. “A frequently made allegation of the madrasa sector is its involvement with religious militancy. The Quomi madrasas are most often implicated in this debate because of the continued resistance to state reforms. Due to their unknown sources of funding and the use of a 300-400 years old curriculum the Western Media perceives them as the breeding ground of terrorists.” https://alochonaa.com/2014/03/27/the-impact-of-islamic-schools-in-bangladeshi-society-the-case-of-madrassa/ This allegation has not been proven and is in dispute. I think one cannot rule it out completely at this time.
 
So, you have males with a fifth grade education. An education with mostly no books and given by the local religion, mainly at the mosque or musalla, with no government oversite. What could possibly go wrong!

That is a good reference article. Here are some items that I would highlight:

1) There are communities in Bangladesh where religious schooling is the only socially acceptable form of education for adolescent girls.

My Comment: Excessively religious communities do not want girls to develop as modern human beings - submissions to religion and male domination are the primary expectations from girls.

2) In terms of employment, the religious sector in Bangladesh generates a total of about 950,000 positions which is almost equal to the number of public sector employees in the country.

My Comment: That is too much of religion in the country.

3) Madrasa graduates account for 32 percent of all university teachers in Bangladesh.

My Comment: Too many bozos for providing higher education - a recipe for disaster.

4) The central limitation of madrasa education is its inability to promote skills that are compatible with a modern economy especially in the wake of Bangladesh competing with many other developing countries in the international market today.

My Comment: It is not only an economic problem; it is regression of human minds.

Based upon my experience of interacting with people from many countries over the last 35 years, I do not think this excessive religiosity is unique among the Muslims of Bangladesh only; it is a problem with too many Muslim communities in too many countries.

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Posted: 01 October 2016 12:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 01 October 2016 06:51 AM

My Comment: That is too much of religion in the country.

The key word is “religion”.
 
To fix problems, one must first get his ducks in a row. If we don’t understand the problem, then we have no business trying to fix something we really don’t understand.
 
Religion - the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. “Ideas about the relationship between science and religion”
 
Religion is a cultural system of behaviors and practices, world views, sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal organization that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called “an order of existence”.
 
The belief in a god or in a group of gods. : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods.

 
Above are three definitions of “religion” from the internet. Yet, there are estimated 350 million Buddhist in the world. They have no god or Supreme Being. So, one would have to say that we are not yet at the point of defining the term “religion”.  I would have to say we are really not at the point in our own understandings of religion to try and force changes on the religions in other parts of the world.
 
In history, the Romans went for intellectual truth and in doing so reduced the number of deities. But they did not rid themselves of all deities. Resulting in a more powerful deity religion. Point being, at this time in mankind’s evolution, mankind needs religion. 
 
So, is there to much religion? Or just too much of the wrong type of religion? Bangladesh is 90% Islam. On the other hand, Saudi Arabia is 100% Islam.
 
So, maybe it is too much religion in the government. Just look at Section 57 of Bangladesh’s Information and Communication Technology Act, 2006 — that allows the arrest without a warrant of any person who “deliberately publishes any material in electronic form that causes to deteriorate law and order, prejudice the image of the state or person or causes to hurt religious belief
Point being, the schools cannot be changed until government has been changed. This is what is known as a catch-22.

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Posted: 01 October 2016 03:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Islam Has Massacred Over 669+ Million Non-Muslims Since 622AD
http://www.bing.com/news/apiclick.aspx?ref=BDIGeneric&aid=C98EA5B0842DBB9405BBF071E1DA7651077B1B5B&tid=973AE75C33F342B6BE20987612252E79&url=http://www.israelislamandendtimes.com/refugee-charity-stops-aid-calais-97-men-no-real-reason/&c=8665347488275528012&mkt=en-us

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Posted: 03 October 2016 04:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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MikeYohe - 01 October 2016 12:46 PM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 01 October 2016 06:51 AM

My Comment: That is too much of religion in the country.

The key word is “religion”.
 
To fix problems, one must first get his ducks in a row. If we don’t understand the problem, then we have no business trying to fix something we really don’t understand.
 
Religion - the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. “Ideas about the relationship between science and religion”
 
Religion is a cultural system of behaviors and practices, world views, sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal organization that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called “an order of existence”.
 
The belief in a god or in a group of gods. : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods.

 
Above are three definitions of “religion” from the internet. Yet, there are estimated 350 million Buddhist in the world. They have no god or Supreme Being. So, one would have to say that we are not yet at the point of defining the term “religion”.  I would have to say we are really not at the point in our own understandings of religion to try and force changes on the religions in other parts of the world.
 
In history, the Romans went for intellectual truth and in doing so reduced the number of deities. But they did not rid themselves of all deities. Resulting in a more powerful deity religion. Point being, at this time in mankind’s evolution, mankind needs religion. 
 
So, is there to much religion? Or just too much of the wrong type of religion? Bangladesh is 90% Islam. On the other hand, Saudi Arabia is 100% Islam.
 
So, maybe it is too much religion in the government. Just look at Section 57 of Bangladesh’s Information and Communication Technology Act, 2006 — that allows the arrest without a warrant of any person who “deliberately publishes any material in electronic form that causes to deteriorate law and order, prejudice the image of the state or person or causes to hurt religious belief
Point being, the schools cannot be changed until government has been changed. This is what is known as a catch-22.

I do not think mankind needs God-fearing religions for much good. It needs those religions mostly for dividing themselves and for maintaining the injustice, hatred and atrocities that are prescribed in them, along with the more innocent but false and foolish senses of security in life and afterlife.

Of course, it is “Catch-22” in Bangladesh and in many other places in the world. I believe a people deserves the government it gets. Even when there is a dictator in power, I see the nation as mostly worthy of that. That is why I criticize ‘humanists’ who are soft on and tolerant of the barbarians of the world; I dislike ‘feminists’ who play political correctness with religions, cultures, traditions and governments that oppress women.

I think it would be progress if people actually applied their natural human intelligence while reading the so-called holy books that they grew up thinking as theirs.

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Posted: 03 October 2016 08:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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I agree religion has been overall a negative for humanity, but it’s so much a part of who we are, there’s not much point in making that argument. We’d find some other way to divide ourselves or other security blankets. I just can’t handle how you mix the criticism of “humanists” or “feminists” with actual problems like tolerating the intolerable or being PC about oppression. Those are not uniquely “humanist” or “feminist” traits. Conservatives are well known for partnering with barbaric regimes so they can get their resources. They have traded guns for hostages and democracy for oil.

Obviously, applying intelligence is the answer. The devil is in the details of what you mean by intelligence.

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Posted: 03 October 2016 08:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Lausten - 03 October 2016 08:30 AM

————- I just can’t handle how you mix the criticism of “humanists” or “feminists” with actual problems like tolerating the intolerable or being PC about oppression. Those are not uniquely “humanist” or “feminist” traits. Conservatives are well known for partnering with barbaric regimes so they can get their resources. .......................

I suppose, I am more bothered when I am disappointed with people that I expect to be my kind (humanists, including feminists), as opposed to the ones that are not my kind (conservatives).

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Posted: 04 October 2016 07:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 03 October 2016 08:31 PM
Lausten - 03 October 2016 08:30 AM

————- I just can’t handle how you mix the criticism of “humanists” or “feminists” with actual problems like tolerating the intolerable or being PC about oppression. Those are not uniquely “humanist” or “feminist” traits. Conservatives are well known for partnering with barbaric regimes so they can get their resources. .......................

I suppose, I am more bothered when I am disappointed with people that I expect to be my kind (humanists, including feminists), as opposed to the ones that are not my kind (conservatives).

That is an improvement.

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Posted: 04 October 2016 09:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Lausten - 04 October 2016 07:27 AM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 03 October 2016 08:31 PM
Lausten - 03 October 2016 08:30 AM

————- I just can’t handle how you mix the criticism of “humanists” or “feminists” with actual problems like tolerating the intolerable or being PC about oppression. Those are not uniquely “humanist” or “feminist” traits. Conservatives are well known for partnering with barbaric regimes so they can get their resources. .......................

I suppose, I am more bothered when I am disappointed with people that I expect to be my kind (humanists, including feminists), as opposed to the ones that are not my kind (conservatives).

That is an improvement.

You have no idea, buddy!

Let me kill another minute of my time for you. The naive and corrupt people who tolerate and accept injustice are almost as responsible for injustice in the world as the fools and criminals that perpetrate the acts of injustice.

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Posted: 04 October 2016 10:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 04 October 2016 09:17 AM
Lausten - 04 October 2016 07:27 AM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 03 October 2016 08:31 PM
Lausten - 03 October 2016 08:30 AM

————- I just can’t handle how you mix the criticism of “humanists” or “feminists” with actual problems like tolerating the intolerable or being PC about oppression. Those are not uniquely “humanist” or “feminist” traits. Conservatives are well known for partnering with barbaric regimes so they can get their resources. .......................

I suppose, I am more bothered when I am disappointed with people that I expect to be my kind (humanists, including feminists), as opposed to the ones that are not my kind (conservatives).

That is an improvement.

You have no idea, buddy!

Let me kill another minute of my time for you. The naive and corrupt people who tolerate and accept injustice are almost as responsible for injustice in the world as the fools and criminals that perpetrate the acts of injustice.

I meant it was an improvement for my understanding of how you think. I’m very aware of political correctness from liberals. I am a liberal who believes in a degree of military power and its use. I’ve listened to the Sam Harris & Majid Nawwaz discussion in their book “Future of Tolerance” a few times. I’m also aware that when Donald Trump calls out Obama for not saying “Islamic terrorists”, he has a very different agenda.

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