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Are they really due to Western foreign policies?
Posted: 28 September 2016 09:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 28 September 2016 03:36 PM
MikeYohe - 27 September 2016 05:36 PM

It is very hard for me to get a clear picture in my mind about Abdus Salam. And it easy for me to confuse what goes on politically and socially in India with Pakistan. My understanding is that in Pakistan the caste system is used with quotas according to the caste systems as to who gets to go to college. So, naturally the question comes to mind, if Salam was sending students to colleges in other countries and his home country is not giving him credit. Was Salam at disagreement with the Pakistan caste system, thus fighting the government and the caste system? It was not talked about in either posting lead, but I can’t see how it would not have been a big issue. As the college caste system is a big issue in Pakistan today. My question is. If the caste system is an issue. Then is the caste system also a religious issue in your opinion?

Abdus Salam was a Ahmadiyya Muslim. Here are three links that you can check out to learn about that community:

http://www.alislam.org/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/qasim-rashid/10-fabrications-muslim-leaders-need-to-stop-making-about-ahmadi-muslims_b_5854492.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260964/do-ahmadi-muslims-really-speak-islam-dr-stephen-m-kirby

In any case, the Caste System is a Hindu phenomenon; Muslims do not have that. (Although like all other communities, Muslims also have high, middle and low class kind of distinguishing mindsets.)

The reason behind the persecution of Ahmadiyya and Sufi Muslims is that the Sunni and Shia Muslims do not consider them Muslims. It is a problem within Muslims due to their caring too much about who is following Islam properly and who is not.

Abdus Salam does not get the respect he deserves in his birthplace, because in that country he and his community are considered heretics, fake Muslims.

I see what you mean. It is a total religious element we are talking about. My understanding is that the answer to the problem is recognized. But do to today’s political methods we no longer have the audacity to deal with these types of evils. The method is, when you catch someone harming someone else because they are not the proper type of Muslim. You kill them, then you kill their family, then you destroy their house. It is my understanding that you do that a couple of times and the message gets comprehended and the problem is fixed. Working in the court system that is Muslim controlled, will not work. Just look at the population where the problem is. Using the historically proven methods should work. But don’t expect it to happen in today’s world.

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Posted: 29 September 2016 04:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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I didn’t attack your character Sukhamaya, I attacked the quality of your argument and your lack of reasoning.

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Posted: 29 September 2016 07:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Lausten - 29 September 2016 04:30 AM

I didn’t attack your character Sukhamaya, I attacked the quality of your argument and your lack of reasoning.

I don’t understand your attack thinking. I was trying to understand the subject matter and Sukhamaya was helping. The reasoning is that you have people that are 300 to 400 years behind today’s thinking. And that they understand the methods used back then. Israel is basely doing the same thing today. They have stopped killing the family members, but the attacker and family home is destroyed. http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.690917

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Posted: 29 September 2016 10:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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MikeYohe - 29 September 2016 07:17 AM
Lausten - 29 September 2016 04:30 AM

I didn’t attack your character Sukhamaya, I attacked the quality of your argument and your lack of reasoning.

I don’t understand your attack thinking. I was trying to understand the subject matter and Sukhamaya was helping. The reasoning is that you have people that are 300 to 400 years behind today’s thinking. And that they understand the methods used back then. Israel is basely doing the same thing today. They have stopped killing the family members, but the attacker and family home is destroyed. http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.690917

I don’t understand many things you say at all Mike. I said something about Sukhamaya making racist remarks, maybe my wording was less than diplomatic. I don’t actually care in this case. He and you point to things some Muslims do, then you generalize about Muslims. Call it whatever you want.

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Posted: 29 September 2016 08:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Lausten - 29 September 2016 04:30 AM

I didn’t attack your character Sukhamaya, I attacked the quality of your argument and your lack of reasoning.

Well, thanks for the clarification. It does indicate that you realize that personal attacks are not what we need in a discussion/forum.

In any case, we all have our weaknesses and strengths in reasoning, discussions and arguments; but those are nothing compared to the problem of injustice, hatred and atrocities that are going on in the world due to too many humans being too stupid when it comes to what they think is their religion.

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Posted: 29 September 2016 10:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Maybe it comes down to humans taking themselves way the heck too seriously.

Too many thin skinned tough guys running around.  Easy access to weapons doesn’t help.

Of course, convincing oneself that they understand God’s mind and will - can’t help but inject a certain insanity into the believer.

And so it goes.

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Posted: 30 September 2016 02:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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MikeYohe - 28 September 2016 09:10 PM

I see what you mean. It is a total religious element we are talking about. My understanding is that the answer to the problem is recognized. But do to today’s political methods we no longer have the audacity to deal with these types of evils. The method is, when you catch someone harming someone else because they are not the proper type of Muslim. You kill them, then you kill their family, then you destroy their house. It is my understanding that you do that a couple of times and the message gets comprehended and the problem is fixed. Working in the court system that is Muslim controlled, will not work. Just look at the population where the problem is. Using the historically proven methods should work. But don’t expect it to happen in today’s world.

No, we punish/correct the criminal; we do not punish his/her family for his/her crime unless if the family directly facilitated the crime.

Having said that I would say that religious zombies that have no brain to think and understand his/her own human dignity and rights do not grow in vacuum. What can be more brainless than being willing to kill oneself for the so-called almighty? But do these creatures come out of thin air? No. They need an environment where there is too much of blind following of religions. The sensible, responsible and civilized components of the world must discourage, and if needed stop forcibly, all kinds of blind following of religious stupidity, injustice, hatred and atrocities.

For example, it was very disappointing when Michelle Obama visited a girls’ school in London where the innocent little girls looked like Islamic zombies wearing hijab, and had group photographs of her and the girls to show her respect for Muslims. Those girls were brainwashed to think that it was a fashion/choice/right to wear that. But in reality it is nothing better than following an Islamic edict that treats women as inferior to men and as properties to be guarded, as opposed to humans who should be free to dress comfortably/fashionably.

While we should respect everyone’s right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness without trampling the same rights of others, we should have no respect for religious fanaticism where acts of injustice are perpetrated and accepted willingly due to brainwash.

[ Edited: 30 September 2016 04:58 AM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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Posted: 30 September 2016 04:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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You know, just saying words like, “looked like Islamic zombies”, should make little red flags pop up in your head. And dignitaries visiting a school is not an endorsement for the entire curriculum.

[ Edited: 30 September 2016 08:25 AM by Lausten ]
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Posted: 30 September 2016 07:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 30 September 2016 02:19 AM

They need an environment where there is too much of blind following of religions. The sensible, responsible and civilized components of the world must discourage, and if needed stop forcibly, all kinds of blind following of religious stupidity, injustice, hatred and atrocities.

You make very good points. When I was talking about killing the families, I was talking about how history dealt with the problem in the past and how it evolved its method in Israel use of the method today.
 
My thinking on the history and a breakdown of the problems you are talking about to the root levels.
 
Religion has been around for a long time going back into pre-history. Religion has been proven to be good for mankind. Religion is nothing more than judgement. Good verses bad, or right from wrong. Then we have heaven. Nothing more than the reward for doing right and the human desire of live forever. Then we have the god. Just another word for knowledge. Some of the oldest pre-history stories comes from the gods (the people of knowledge).
 
Our DNA points to mankind just about becoming extinct, somewhere between 500 to 5,000 humans left on earth. Religion and heaven survived but the gods as knowledge did not. Mankind lost the pre-history knowledge and this seeking of this lost knowledge has been going on since the beginning of history. Even Jesus’s teaching were gnostic (of knowledge) which is becoming more understood today. But what replaced the gods was deities. Deities seemed to have knowledge of some level on certain subjects. And RA, the main god of the time, control all knowledge.
 
In the timeline of mankind we went from the Age of Domestication to the Age of Deities. And the problems we are having today is not in religion, but in the deities. And the power of the deities is knowledge. What the deities do not want is their knowledge challenged. The people who represent the deities are controlling religion and afterlife by controlling the deities.
 
My point is that we should not go after religion or afterlife, but go after the deities themselves. Because that is where the problem is. And we need to combat theses deities with knowledge. Or put another way. Knowledge verses knowledge. So what is knowledge? Knowledge is comparison of new ideas with existing ideas. The Christian and Islamic churches understand this and have been destroying all counter knowledge for a very long time. We need to use science and history to build a knowledge base to destroy the deities. 
 
That would solve the problems like Abdus Salam and change foreign policies over time. So, why are we not doing this? There is nothing stopping us from digging up our past history. There is a lot of data available today for the people to start understanding.

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Posted: 30 September 2016 08:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Just an add-on to the last post. As an atheist, I don’t believe in deities. But I do believe in religion. I would like to see the end of the Age of Deities and would like us to get back into the Age of Domestication. Domestication is “god created earth for mankind” or translated “knowledge created earth for mankind”. We have so far changed the plants, animals and even the elements like the weather. Religion without deities worked in the past and will work today. We really need to get back to domestication and take better care of the earth. The people need to see that mankind’s task is to care for the earth and come together on this point.

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Posted: 30 September 2016 08:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 29 September 2016 08:29 PM
Lausten - 29 September 2016 04:30 AM

I didn’t attack your character Sukhamaya, I attacked the quality of your argument and your lack of reasoning.

Well, thanks for the clarification. It does indicate that you realize that personal attacks are not what we need in a discussion/forum.

In any case, we all have our weaknesses and strengths in reasoning, discussions and arguments; but those are nothing compared to the problem of injustice, hatred and atrocities that are going on in the world due to too many humans being too stupid when it comes to what they think is their religion.

What exactly goes through your head when you say something reasonable, then, with a semi-colon switch to “those people are stupid”?

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Posted: 01 October 2016 03:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Lausten - 30 September 2016 04:56 AM

You know, just saying words like, “looked like Islamic zombies”, should make little red flags pop up in your head. And dignitaries visiting a school is not an endorsement for the entire curriculum.

You cannot even begin to address, let alone solve, a problem when you are unwilling to honestly identify it.

Dignitaries in comfortable company with brainwashed willing victims wearing a symbol of oppression is contrary to progress of human civilization.

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Posted: 01 October 2016 05:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 01 October 2016 03:47 AM
Lausten - 30 September 2016 04:56 AM

You know, just saying words like, “looked like Islamic zombies”, should make little red flags pop up in your head. And dignitaries visiting a school is not an endorsement for the entire curriculum.

You cannot even begin to address, let alone solve, a problem when you are unwilling to honestly identify it.

Dignitaries in comfortable company with brainwashed willing victims wearing a symbol of oppression is contrary to progress of human civilization.

You have a distorted view of how the world works. You cannot begin to solve a problem by refusing to visit children at school. Those children will remember that they met the First Lady for the rest of their lives. It will spark their curiosity about what the US is. No one will be able to tell them Michelle Obama hates them or wants to burn them at the stake. Of course indoctrinating children is wrong, that’s exactly why she went there and met them.

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Posted: 01 October 2016 02:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Lausten - 01 October 2016 05:58 AM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 01 October 2016 03:47 AM
Lausten - 30 September 2016 04:56 AM

You know, just saying words like, “looked like Islamic zombies”, should make little red flags pop up in your head. And dignitaries visiting a school is not an endorsement for the entire curriculum.

You cannot even begin to address, let alone solve, a problem when you are unwilling to honestly identify it.

Dignitaries in comfortable company with brainwashed willing victims wearing a symbol of oppression is contrary to progress of human civilization.

You have a distorted view of how the world works. You cannot begin to solve a problem by refusing to visit children at school. Those children will remember that they met the First Lady for the rest of their lives. It will spark their curiosity about what the US is. No one will be able to tell them Michelle Obama hates them or wants to burn them at the stake. Of course indoctrinating children is wrong, that’s exactly why she went there and met them.

Correction: “You have a distorted view of how the world works.” is too opinionated; “I disagree with you.” would have been a better expression. Let me advise people here that when I ignore this kind of statements, it does not mean “silence implies agreement.”

Now, as for Michelle Obama looking at home with the hijab-clad innocent little girls (let us try to avoid repeating “who look like Islamic zombies”), isn’t it likely for those girls to feel like their way is not a problem for respectable people like the First Lady of the United States? Whereas in reality they are wearing a symbol of repression of women, which is contrary to the liberty people have, and aspire to improve upon, in the USA. And who is asking anyone to hate those girls? In my first mention of this in this thread, I wrote “.... the innocent little girls looked like Islamic zombies .....”. Calling someone “innocent” does not express “hatred”, does it?

[ Edited: 01 October 2016 02:41 PM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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Posted: 03 October 2016 04:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 01 October 2016 02:30 PM

Correction: “You have a distorted view of how the world works.” is too opinionated; “I disagree with you.” would have been a better expression. Let me advise people here that when I ignore this kind of statements, it does not mean “silence implies agreement.”

Now, as for Michelle Obama looking at home with the hijab-clad innocent little girls (let us try to avoid repeating “who look like Islamic zombies”), isn’t it likely for those girls to feel like their way is not a problem for respectable people like the First Lady of the United States? Whereas in reality they are wearing a symbol of repression of women, which is contrary to the liberty people have, and aspire to improve upon, in the USA. And who is asking anyone to hate those girls? In my first mention of this in this thread, I wrote “.... the innocent little girls looked like Islamic zombies .....”. Calling someone “innocent” does not express “hatred”, does it?

I would be fine with you not responding, and don’t worry, I wouldn’t think you were agreeing with me.

Yes, why don’t you try to stop calling little girls names. That’s a great idea. Now, let’s try not thinking they are stupid. They are young however and may not be aware of all the symbols of the world. Just as you weren’t aware that your school was preparing you for your place in the industrial world by having you respond to bells and sit quietly while the master told you what to do. (I’m assuming you went to some sort of Western public school). Did spouses of leaders visit those kinds of schools where such brain washing was going on? Where they taught that Christopher Columbus was a hero?

And I never said you hated those girls.

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